Keyblade Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Point is. I don't view it as a good performance when we get battered in every single stat. Even though we lost we still were highly fortunate to not have lost the game by much more. But i do agree we fought well and gave it our all. But we can't keep conceding 20+ shots every game, it concerning. You realize we're talking about the best team in the country right? A team who was conquering Europe while we were finishing 5th in the Championship. I wouldn't lose sleep over conceding a lot of shots to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Keyblade said: You realize we're talking about the best team in the country right? A team who was conquering Europe while we were finishing 5th in the Championship. I wouldn't lose sleep over conceding a lot of shots to them. The thing is Norwich and Brighton also had 20+ shots against us. It is a glaring issue that it's so easy to get past our midfield. Edited November 5, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: The thing is Norwich and Brighton also had 20+ shots against us. It is a glaring issue that it's so easy to get past our midfield. That was because we were for more goals so both mcginn and hourihane were in poor positions defensively. Mcginn especially needs to be better at getting back into position after a run hasn't panned out so we can recycle more easily. With him doing what he does now not only does it leave us exposed if we lose the ball but it makes it a lot harder to switch the ball as there is a massive gap between our left and right flanks where mcginn should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: The thing is Norwich and Brighton also had 20+ shots against us. It is a glaring issue that it's so easy to get past our midfield. How many of them actually had any chance of going in? Number of shots has nothing to do with quality of shots. Any team can speculatively hit it from 35 yards under pressure and spanner it out for a goal kick. You can't apply American stats obsession to football, it doesn't work. We beat Norwich 5-1 FFS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, lexicon said: How many of them actually had any chance of going in? Number of shots has nothing to do with quality of shots. Any team can speculatively hit it from 35 yards under pressure and spanner it out for a goal kick. You can't apply American stats obsession to football, it doesn't work. We beat Norwich 5-1 FFS. When you analyze a game you tend to be looking at more than just the score sheet. If you concede on average 20 shots per game it's not likely you can maintain good results for very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 48 minutes ago, villalad21 said: When you analyze a game you tend to be looking at more than just the score sheet. If you concede on average 20 shots per game it's not likely you can maintain good results for very long. When you analyse a football game, you watch it unfold and see how the chances take shape - stats do not account for so much in this sport. You can concede 20 poor efforts every game and not concede from them, whereas one decent chance can be the difference between a win and a loss. The fact that it's so hard to quantify winning makes it a great game - it's not some boring mathematical algorithm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Keyblade said: You realize we're talking about the best team in the country right? A team who was conquering Europe while we were finishing 5th in the Championship. I wouldn't lose sleep over conceding a lot of shots to them. you are right. but we too are better now than that team that finished 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, villalad21 said: When you analyze a game you tend to be looking at more than just the score sheet. If you concede on average 20 shots per game it's not likely you can maintain good results for very long. many of the stats we pour over are cosmetic.....the only stats that matter are the ones that bring you points. In the cold light of day.....The 87 minutes could be thrown back in Liverpools faces.....but they won't give a shiny ****e......its the win, is that stat they come for. goals are vanity.....Points are sanity. Edited November 6, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 8 hours ago, villalad21 said: When you analyze a game you tend to be looking at more than just the score sheet. If you concede on average 20 shots per game it's not likely you can maintain good results for very long. Stats are useful but not the be all and end all, using your own analogy (which I don't agree with) we will be fine, PL shots to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 That video is excellent. Man with a plan. Telling the players they would beat Derby 95 times out of 100 is a ballsy move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, TRO said: many of the stats we pour over are cosmetic.....the only stats that matter are the ones that bring you points. In the cold light of day.....The 87 minutes could be thrown back in Liverpools faces.....but they won't give a shiny ****e......its the win, is that stat they come for. goals are vanity.....Points are sanity. When another collapse takes place and other points are lost in March, will it still be "The learning curve"? The glossing over of elementary mistakes that NO team new or old, veteran or inexperienced should be making is shocking. People are overjoyed at a gutsy performance in defeat, while Norwich actually beat Man City and good old cabbage beat Spurs as an example. You see the pattern here? Other teams capitalize on the big teams having off days whereas we are bottlejobs and time and time again fail to do the basics at crucial parts of the game. Edited November 6, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 53 minutes ago, villalad21 said: When another collapse takes place and other points are lost in March, will it still be "The learning curve"? The glossing over of elementary mistakes that NO team new or old, veteran or inexperienced should be making is shocking. People are overjoyed at a gutsy performance in defeat, while Norwich actually beat Man City and good old cabbage beat Spurs as an example. You see the pattern here? Other teams capitalize on the big teams having off days whereas we are bottlejobs and time and time again fail to do the basics at crucial parts of the game. Would you say this is a regular thing with 7 points and -15 GD in 11 games Norwich or that is was a once in a blue moon thing? Yeah it's bad that we keep dropping points from leading positions, but weaker teams like us will do that more often than not and I'm sure we will have our days as well where we actually beat the odds and get points against the big boys. Just having to not play against both VAR and the opponents would make a huge difference for us I'm sure. Fwiw I'm sure no one is overjoyed that we lost against Plop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, sne said: Would you say this is a regular thing with 7 points and -15 GD in 11 games Norwich or that is was a once in a blue moon thing? What i'm saying is that even teams like Norwich and Newcastle will capitalize when top teams have an off day whereas we won't. I believe there is a core issue with the mentality in the squad. They lack aggressiveness and concentration. It doesn't matter how you play for 87 minutes if you can't keep it up for an entire game. If it happens once you can say we'll learn from it. But when it happens every single time we play the top sides then there is a problem. I believe these bunch of players are mentally weak. When players come at them they lack bottle and hides in their shell. They get scared, stops playing and resort to hoofball. Edited November 6, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 21 minutes ago, villalad21 said: What i'm saying is that even teams like Norwich and Newcastle will capitalize when top teams have an off day whereas we won't. I believe there is a core issue with the mentality in the squad. They lack aggressiveness and concentration. It doesn't matter how you play for 87 minutes if you can't keep it up for an entire game. If it happens once you can say we'll learn from it. But when it happens every single time we play the top sides then there is a problem. I believe these bunch of players are mentally weak. When players come at them they lack bottle and hides in their shell. They get scared, stops playing and resort to hoofball. OK, not sure I agree about it being a mental thing, think it's more down to us being a newly promoted, inexperienced team who are still learning, playing against teams with vastly superior squads and also better managers. When Spurs can put on Eriksen where as we can put on Jota, or Plop can put on Keita and Origi while we put on Kodjia and Hourihane the odds will always be in their favor. Personally I've been a bit miffed about us not using our subs in the right way, but I think we've improved on that. But we just don't have the squad dept or quality so the best we can hope for with some subs are fresh legs. So any ideas of a solution? Any quick fix? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, sne said: OK, not sure I agree about it being a mental thing, think it's more down to us being a newly promoted, inexperienced team who are still learning, playing against teams with vastly superior squads and also better managers. When Spurs can put on Eriksen where as we can put on Jota, or Plop can put on Keita and Origi while we put on Kodjia and Hourihane the odds will always be in their favor. Personally I've been a bit miffed about us not using our subs in the right way, but I think we've improved on that. But we just don't have the squad dept or quality so the best we can hope for with some subs are fresh legs. So any ideas of a solution? Any quick fix? I don't think there is a solution. If the players are mentally weak they will never be able to cope against the big teams. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't get a single point against any of the top 6 sides throughout this season. These players have shown on numerous occasions when things get's tough they will crumble. It happened against Spurs, it happened against Arsenal and it happened against Liverpool. This will be a recurring theme we will witness throughout the season. We just have to hope we'll have enough quality to get us enough points against the lesser sides who won't put the same amount of pressure against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, villalad21 said: I don't think there is a solution. If the players are mentally weak they will never be able to cope against the big teams. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't get a single point against any of the top 6 sides throughout this season. These players have shown on numerous occasions when things get's tough they will crumble. It happened against Spurs, it happened against Arsenal and it happened against Liverpool. This will be a recurring theme we will witness throughout the season. We just have to hope we'll have enough quality to get us enough points against the lesser sides who won't put the same amount of pressure against us. Minor miracle we won the play off with this bunch of bottle jobs then. Or is it just then new signings that are weak minded losers? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, sne said: Minor miracle we won the play off with this bunch of bottle jobs then. Or is it just then new signings that are weak minded losers? Championship teams won't put us under the same amount of pressure as the top 6 sides in the Premier League will. Not comparable, not even the slightest. Our games against the top 6 so far is a clear evidence of this. I don't think we will get even a single point against them come May, i really don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: Championship teams won't put us under the same amount of pressure as the top 6 sides in the Premier League will. Not comparable, not even the slightest. Our games against the top 6 so far is a clear evidence of this. I don't think we will get even a single point against them come May, i really don't. Exactly, it's the level of opponents and managers that we are facing this season that is the difference. Not that our players are inherent bottle jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, sne said: Exactly, it's the level of opponents and managers that we are facing this season that is the difference. Not that our players are inherent bottle jobs. Yet Sheffield United and Norwich have both managed to get points out of the top 6. Even Newcastle. Even Southampton and Watford have gained points out of them. Watford drew with Arsenal, Soton drew with Man Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just now, villalad21 said: Yet Sheffield United and Norwich have both managed to get points out of the top 6. Even Newcastle. Even Southampton and Watford have gained points out of them. Watford drew with Arsenal, Soton drew with Man Utd. And if they continue to do so on a regular basis while also beating the teams around them they will not get relegated. I do however doubt that they will do so for more than the odd game. Us having lost against the big 6 is mostly annoying because of the manner of the defeat, as in dropping points late. Any points in those games would have been an unexpected bonus. All points are of course equally important, but it beating the teams around us is where our season will be decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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