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Dean Smith

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1 hour ago, sne said:

I just don't think we currently have what it takes to stay up.

It is an unforgiving league and we are very much learning the ropes, Smith included.

I don't think the players or Smith are doing worse than expected, missing opportunities like yesterday thou is just bad and if continued will put us down.

Big opportunity missed.

What is worrying thou is that we seem to have messed up in recruitment, especially the LB situation where Taylor is still playing and in the wide positions where we seem light and where Elmo is preferred before Jota in a situation like yesterday.

The very late subs or even lack of subs some games points to Smith not trusting the squad players (or multiple fitness issues) and that is also very worrying.

we just have to scrape enough points to stay in touch ti'll January and the hope we can find another LB and another winger (and possibly striker)

I think its premature to say we can't stay up.....but if we keep up these errors and poor decisions, we will find ourselves in trouble.

I think with the current playing personnel and their attributes.....4-3-3 is naive.

I think we need a midfielder who can put his foot on the ball without losing it, i.e A young Gareth Barry type.....until then Luiz and Nakamba in the middle together.

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1 minute ago, TRO said:

I think its premature to say we can't stay up.....but if we keep up these errors and poor decisions, we will find ourselves in trouble.

I think with the current playing personnel and their attributes.....4-3-3 is naive.

I think we need a midfielder who can put his foot on the ball without losing it, i.e A young Gareth Barry type.....until then Luiz and Nakamba in the middle together.

Not saying that.

Just saying that currently we are not good enough.

We will (hopefully) develop, and also likely spend big again to fix the LB situation and add another wide player and or striker in January.

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I do wonder what it would take for Smith to get sacked.

I'm 100% in the 'Smith In' camp, by the way, but I just wonder how poorly we'd need to do for the board to think that a change is needed.

For me, if we're around the 17th/18th position within a point or two, during any part of the season, then Smith should stay, because I genuinely feel like we're playing well, we're creating chances, we have a good team, and that it's silly things that are letting us down, such as panicking towards the end of a game, game management by Smith and the fact that 90% of our team are new to the league and therefore need a bit of time to adapt.

However, say we do a Derby, and we're rock bottom after half of the season with only a handful of points, then I could understand the owners thinking that, despite how well he did for us last season, Smith should be doing better with the team available to him.

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3 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

If they’ve taught you well then I’d say that’s the students fault.

So if they managed you well you should do basics right on that same concept? 

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18 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I do wonder what it would take for Smith to get sacked.

I'm 100% in the 'Smith In' camp, by the way, but I just wonder how poorly we'd need to do for the board to think that a change is needed.

For me, if we're around the 17th/18th position within a point or two, during any part of the season, then Smith should stay, because I genuinely feel like we're playing well, we're creating chances, we have a good team, and that it's silly things that are letting us down, such as panicking towards the end of a game, game management by Smith and the fact that 90% of our team are new to the league and therefore need a bit of time to adapt.

However, say we do a Derby, and we're rock bottom after half of the season with only a handful of points, then I could understand the owners thinking that, despite how well he did for us last season, Smith should be doing better with the team available to him.

I think this is me. 

I'd take getting relegated with Smith, should be make a decent fight out of it and we narrowly go down.  Burnley did it with Dyche, and look at them now, I think we'll get battered by them due to their physicality, plus, they can play a bit.

If we down tools after Christmas and we're 10 points from safety, the fans won't allow that to happen and Smith (sadly) have to be cut off. 

We all (i feel) still want Smith to be a success, he's got us here, and I think we do look a better team now, more attractive to watch then when Bruce left, but you can't play nice football and get spanked every week, not that we are.

I hope it all clicks and we pick up points, we're capable (I think/hope), but we have to start seeing it sooner, rather than later - before our hand is forced. 

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18 minutes ago, sne said:

Not saying that.

Just saying that currently we are not good enough.

We will (hopefully) develop, and also likely spend big again to fix the LB situation and add another wide player and or striker in January.

I think we need to take our eye off staying up, its simply too far away and plenty to play for.

All our focus should be on the next game and see where it takes us.

but i get it that we are not playing sufficiently well enough overall to secure points.

I understand the clamour for more goal scoring power.....but the 2 goals yesterday was as good as anyones and well executed....its enough to get a result if the rest of our game is proficient, but its not.

its difficult to EXPECT any team in this league to get more than 2 goals away from home (except the magical 2).....Goal scoring was not our problem yesterday......and defence hasn't been our problem so far this season, before yesterday.

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4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think we need to take our eye off staying up, its simply too far away and plenty to play for.

All our focus should be on the next game and see where it takes us.

but i get it that we are not playing sufficiently well enough overall to secure points.

I understand the clamour for more goal scoring power.....but the 2 goals yesterday was as good as anyones and well executed....its enough to get a result if the rest of our game is proficient, but its not.

its difficult to EXPECT any team in this league to get more than 2 goals away from home (except the magical 2).....Goal scoring was not our problem yesterday......and defence hasn't been our problem so far this season, before yesterday.

Think it has to be both.

Focusing on one game at the time of course but also looking at the bigger picture. And I'm sure the club is doing this.

Can't just focus on the one game because then it will be 4-1 against Wolves all again. A fine result indeed, but one who meant diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.

As for yesterday I agree to a point, but we were playing against 10 men for 55 mins if you count added time.

They should tire before we do, but the late subs...

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2 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Even if we get relegated we should keep Smith and keep building. I'm my opinion.

Depends on the manner of performances, what other options are available at the time and on what intentions the owners have for the following season IMO.

Hopefully it wont ever come to this.

Edited by sne
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1 minute ago, sne said:

Depends on the manner of performances, what other options are available at the time and on what intentions the owners have for the following season IMO.

Hopefully it wont ever come to this.

Exactly what I was about to comment.

The catch 22 is that, when you are in the Premier League, you can attract high calibre managers.

As you say, if we are still within touching distance but performances are dour, the owners might decide it is too big of a risk to not change, and/or get a high calibre manager in while we can.

But yeah, hopefully it won't come to that, and we will survive till January, one or 2 additions to this team could make all the difference.

 

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17 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Even if we get relegated we should keep Smith and keep building. I'm my opinion.

I agree.....but whether the money men will, is another thing.

One thing that did, strike me a tad, was his approach to the El Ghazi- Mings coming together.I am not in favour of discussing dirty washing in public, but was a left a little flat on his explanation of how they sorted it themselves.It could be said a very noble approach in terms of self management......but managers need to let the players know who the Boss is.

I would rather hope a quiet word in the manner that, "I won't put up with that again"

Managers have their own way of creating presence, but they need to get that across.

I am not commenting on Deans player management as I am not privvy to the warts n all at BMH......but passive management will not work in the long term....hope that is not the case.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Even if we get relegated we should keep Smith and keep building. I'm my opinion.

Spot on. Continuity is everything in football. If you got a manager that shows he has the right ideas and the football is good to watch. Let him keep going. Smith has been everything I wanted him to be so far. 

Fact is that we went up by playoff. We weren't even among the best championship teams. The step up in quality to the PL is huge and it's showing. There will be good days and bad days. 

Lets be mature, stay calm and build brick by brick.

Edited by KenjiOgiwara

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1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

I do wonder what it would take for Smith to get sacked.

I'm 100% in the 'Smith In' camp, by the way, but I just wonder how poorly we'd need to do for the board to think that a change is needed.

For me, if we're around the 17th/18th position within a point or two, during any part of the season, then Smith should stay, because I genuinely feel like we're playing well, we're creating chances, we have a good team, and that it's silly things that are letting us down, such as panicking towards the end of a game, game management by Smith and the fact that 90% of our team are new to the league and therefore need a bit of time to adapt.

However, say we do a Derby, and we're rock bottom after half of the season with only a handful of points, then I could understand the owners thinking that, despite how well he did for us last season, Smith should be doing better with the team available to him.

We've seen it all the time from owners in the past.

If you're in the bottom 3 by Christmas owners start to panic and Smith would be under massive pressure. I'm also not DS out yet either, far too early for that.

Edited by villalad21

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Any talk what so ever of sacking Smith is absolutely mind blowing, it really is, thankfully I think our owners aren't that stupid. 

We all knew that this season was going to be tough and I think even the most ardent supporter would have taken a 17th place finish come the end of the season, so I really don't get all the dejection after what, six games?! 

Unless we lose 10 on the spin and he completely loses the dressing room would I then contemplate sacking him, but that is not going to happen, we are competing, we have been in contention in each game and there are positives to take for sure.

Don't get me wrong, he has made mistakes (I'm sure he's aware of this), he's not flawless, but who is? Klopp? Guardiola? Let's bring one of them in shall we.

End of the day, he's one of our own, he is a positive person, he talks a good game, he won us promotion with a 10 game winning streak and one of the main reasons we got promoted last season was due to the players, management and fans all being together and the only way we will stay in this league and progress is for us fans to get behind them again - (to be fair, at the games we are doing that and it is a pleasure to see, long may it continue).

I have only seen highlights of the Arsenal game (couldn't find a decent stream) and it seems the biggest issue amongst fans was with us sitting back and inviting pressure - However listening to his post-match analysis it seemed that this wasn't the HT instruction, therefore I think the players have to take responsibility there as much as Smith. I think the players do need to believe in themselves a little more. Another blame was laid to the lack of substitutions which I get totally, it sounded very much like the players were absolutely knackered after 60 mins, I think this is definitely something that the head coach needs to look at, freshening things up sooner - I am sure he is regretting this now but hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

With a bit of luck (we have had less than most this season) a bit more guile (when we are winning, seeing out games) and a bit more doggedness (see Sheff Utd) we would be sat on about 9-10 points - I think it's been a frustrating start to the season but not a disastrous one.

Some BIG home games coming up where I feel we will get some positive results 🙏

 

 

 

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It’s too early to be thinking these things for me.

We lost a point against Palace because of an incredible referee decision and arguably yesterday the handball penalty by Arsenal could’ve ended the result differently for us.  We are being naive and  unlucky at the moment and this is the first time our players have really played together and first time they’ve played at this level.

The only way I can see us going is getting better and picking up enough results to survive.

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50 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

We just need to be patient. If you look close enough the 1% are starting to appear. It is frustrating from afar as referees have cost the team points, a little naivety has also cost the team points. It's slowly coming together and we will start to put some performances together and pick up points.

Somebody is in for a hiding one of these days Imo.

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We are likely to concede 10-15 goals during the end of October and early November when we face first City away and then Plop at home the week after.

This is around the time when owners and fans start to get trigger happy if results are not right.

But even then I think Smith is safe unless the games before and after are also car crashes.

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6 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

If they’ve taught you well then I’d say that’s the students fault.

Exactly, these are professional footballers...they shouldn't need Smith to tell them to hold the ball and not constantly turn it over and invite more pressure. 

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