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Dean Smith

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37 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But they contradict eachother, surely he either plays on the left or has a free role? 

If you did line him up on the left but then say you have a free role how often will he be on the left? It would leave us horribly imbalanced and it would leave Taylor exposed which i do not think would be wise.

Not gonna happen anyway.

It's hardly a new idea, it's happened before with varying success, it can work. Ideally Taylor will be a none entity before long with Targett coming in who will offer much better delivery down that side. Nakamba and Luiz should offer good enough defensive cover to help with anything vacated down the left. Everton for instance have both 'wide' players regularly drifting in to pack the midfield, keep the ball better/ move it quicker and have fullbacks who can go up and down the pitch. So hardly a strategy that is radically different and thus could be an option to explore. 

It's not as though this side looks that well balanced currently, we don't keep the ball that well in the middle and our wide players generally offer little going forward consistently.

Edited by Dr_Pangloss
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I think our midfield is often too spread out, plenty of times I’ve seen someone pick it up in the centre circle but have no one within 15 yards to pass to, McGinn obviously loves bombing forward but so does grealish and it leaves whoever is playing in the holding role isolated with only sideways or backward passes to defenders.

Mcginn and/or Grealish need to stay further back to better link the play.

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Bit unfair on him but I think much of our issues are down to Taylor at LB.

He just offers nothing when we have the ball and makes us weak on that side.

Looking at Grealish heat map (we love those) you can see he's very much playing in the wide left area of the pitch to link up with the winger leaving a hole in the center area.

If our LB could overlap it would leave Grealish free to have more ball centrally or to move him to the left and have Marvelous or Hourihane in CM.

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I personally do not think tactics or positional play is the issue. We just up against much better players now so need to up our game. Be stronger and keep the ball much better than we have been.

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14 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I personally do not think tactics or positional play is the issue. We just up against much better players now so need to up our game. Be stronger and keep the ball much better than we have been.

If you watched Norwich today.....that's what we need to do.....Buendia was at the centre of everything..... 1.5 mill from Getafe, wow, some find and only 22

Their work rate was phenomenal for starters and I mean every player, no passengers......Their quick passing is precise, met by a competent first touch....they move the ball so quick.

totally deserved their win......we could learn from them.

personally, i think we would have been just watching Otemendi, just composing himself, rather than putting him under pressure as Buendia did......thats the big difference for me.

hope tomorrow, they prove me wrong.

Edited by TRO

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8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I personally do not think tactics or positional play is the issue. We just up against much better players now so need to up our game. Be stronger and keep the ball much better than we have been.

Players absolutely yes.

Formation must be looked at if we lose the next two. Has to be.

I've read quite a few comments on here how bad Norwich were before yesterday's game. They've always looked alright to me and bonus results like that will only help them. So many injuries yesterday and they do that.

Performance wise, we've definitely been among the worst three so far.

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5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Players absolutely yes.

Formation must be looked at if we lose the next two. Has to be.

I've read quite a few comments on here how bad Norwich were before yesterday's game. They've always looked alright to me and bonus results like that will only help them. So many injuries yesterday and they do that.

Performance wise, we've definitely been among the worst three so far.

We've definitely looked the worse of the three so far, although Sheffield's performance yesterday is hopefully indicative of things to come.

For me we haven't adapted quickly to this level. A lot of that driven by a number of new recruits, but also key players like Grealish and McGinn struggling to adapt to a point. I'm hoping that things will only improve with time, but it's clear to me the rebuilding job wasn't quite finished in the summer with our wingers being a real weak link.

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6 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

We've definitely looked the worse of the three so far, although Sheffield's performance yesterday is hopefully indicative of things to come.

For me we haven't adapted quickly to this level. A lot of that driven by a number of new recruits, but also key players like Grealish and McGinn struggling to adapt to a point. I'm hoping that things will only improve with time, but it's clear to me the rebuilding job wasn't quite finished in the summer with our wingers being a real weak link.

I think McGinn has been good personally. Grealish when he gets the ball is also playing his game OK for me. Maybe a tad deep but he's trying to get us passing.

It's the holding midfielder and full backs that are not allowing us to control the ball. We can never settle in possession so are playing on the counter which doesn't suit our methodical way of opening teams up. I certainly think that's Deano's end game, controlling matches as opposed to continually attacking on the counter.

If we can improve generally holding the ball and get our usual game going, hopefully we'll already be in decent nick when the time comes we do have play on the break.

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Norwich were brilliant but let’s face it city were awful.  I mean what the hell was Otemendi doing for that third goal.  

Hope City play like that against us. 

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I wouldn't mind seeing a midfield 5 excluding wingers. Jack and McG can be the more adventurous with Lansbury & Conor supplementing - all competent technical players. I would have Marvelous or Luiz anchoring the middle ahead of the back four. This would allow a high interplay around Wesley.

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48 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Norwich were brilliant but let’s face it city were awful.  I mean what the hell was Otemendi doing for that third goal.  

Hope City play like that against us. 

It depends on how you look at it.

Buendia exploited Otemendi......many players would have stood watching, he went for it and got his just rewards, thats what working hard is/ does...chasing possible lost causes, is hard work, but gets you reward.

We must try and emulate what Norwich do, Sheff utd do it too......at times we give teams too much respect and space for them to play.....We have players who do play like them teams, but one or two that don't and they need to sharpen up mentally and physically......we can't carry players in this league.

Edited by TRO
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20 minutes ago, thunderball said:

I wouldn't mind seeing a midfield 5 excluding wingers. Jack and McG can be the more adventurous with Lansbury & Conor supplementing - all competent technical players. I would have Marvelous or Luiz anchoring the middle ahead of the back four. This would allow a high interplay around Wesley.

I don't think we are defensively good enough to play 4-3-3.

We have 2 good centre halves after that, I can't see real defensive quality anywhere.

Edited by TRO

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1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

We've definitely looked the worse of the three so far, although Sheffield's performance yesterday is hopefully indicative of things to come.

For me we haven't adapted quickly to this level. A lot of that driven by a number of new recruits, but also key players like Grealish and McGinn struggling to adapt to a point. I'm hoping that things will only improve with time, but it's clear to me the rebuilding job wasn't quite finished in the summer with our wingers being a real weak link.

Quite right.....The wingers and full backs need to be more agressive and robust in their work.....its all a bit passive from them.....I think its affecting jack and john, in having to do too much.

The DM is also a crucial position, that we are not quite combative enough.

Edited by TRO
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18 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I personally do not think tactics or positional play is the issue. We just up against much better players now so need to up our game. Be stronger and keep the ball much better than we have been.

I think you are spot on......we still have players making little affect, just turning the ball around( recycling).....it leaves too much work for the assertive ones.

Edited by TRO

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Drop the wings and bring a more stable midfield by adding more players to the midfield. Players can always drift out wide if they see an opening. We have alot of decent players on that bench who are not playing, adding a formation that is more full of midfield playwr would allow us to bring Nakamba on who had a very high pass rate if im not mistaken at crewe was it.

Don't know why we can't play a 4-5-1,more defensive, more controllable, more attack and certainly more players within a tighter area that can be passed to. Wesley would certainly have back up which is very much lacking because the wingers are waiting for runs which are not there till the opposition is back and fully organised.

Keep saying it, it's not that our wingers are bad, it's that they are fast down the wings and we only have one guy (wesley) managing to run for a cross. Our other players are arriving to late for crosses and then the wingers are held up, I've seen it and it's happening to much.

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7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Players absolutely yes.

Formation must be looked at if we lose the next two. Has to be.

I've read quite a few comments on here how bad Norwich were before yesterday's game. They've always looked alright to me and bonus results like that will only help them. So many injuries yesterday and they do that.

Performance wise, we've definitely been among the worst three so far.

Its amazing how far hard work can take you...its under estimated at times......it was a major element in 1981/82

we have players who simply do not work hard enough or brave enough to commit themselves....whatever the reason, fear, uncertainty, still settling.....but we need to put ourselves about more without clumsy or illegal challenges.

we have to do better, to survive.

 

Edited by TRO

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11 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Drop the wings and bring a more stable midfield by adding more players to the midfield. Players can always drift out wide if they see an opening. We have alot of decent players on that bench who are not playing, adding a formation that is more full of midfield playwr would allow us to bring Nakamba on who had a very high pass rate if im not mistaken at crewe was it.

Don't know why we can't play a 4-5-1,more defensive, more controllable, more attack and certainly more players within a tighter area that can be passed to. Wesley would certainly have back up which is very much lacking because the wingers are waiting for runs which are not there till the opposition is back and fully organised.

Keep saying it, it's not that our wingers are bad, it's that they are fast down the wings and we only have one guy (wesley) managing to run for a cross. Our other players are arriving to late for crosses and then the wingers are held up, I've seen it and it's happening to much.

I would be inclined to go 4-2-3-1....which is more or less, what you suggested.

Dean is adamant, he wants to stick to his more attacking formation.....that is a noble stance, but I just feel at present in our early stages of this league, it can be a bit inefficient in terms of controlling the play.... .if 4-3-3 is not being played correctly or players not commanding/dominating their positions, it lends itself to making it easier for the opposition to get in to the game.

I think we need to make things much harder for the opposition.

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23 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

It's hardly a new idea, it's happened before with varying success, it can work. Ideally Taylor will be a none entity before long with Targett coming in who will offer much better delivery down that side. Nakamba and Luiz should offer good enough defensive cover to help with anything vacated down the left. Everton for instance have both 'wide' players regularly drifting in to pack the midfield, keep the ball better/ move it quicker and have fullbacks who can go up and down the pitch. So hardly a strategy that is radically different and thus could be an option to explore. 

It's not as though this side looks that well balanced currently, we don't keep the ball that well in the middle and our wide players generally offer little going forward consistently.

That final paragraph is poignant......its unlikely a different formation, would change that, and we can't keep doubling up on numbers to get the job done.....players have to compete and impose themselves, not be bullied on to the back foot.

We are not far of it......we just need all the players to be at it, not just some of them.

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1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

I think McGinn has been good personally. Grealish when he gets the ball is also playing his game OK for me. Maybe a tad deep but he's trying to get us passing.

It's the holding midfielder and full backs that are not allowing us to control the ball. We can never settle in possession so are playing on the counter which doesn't suit our methodical way of opening teams up. I certainly think that's Deano's end game, controlling matches as opposed to continually attacking on the counter.

If we can improve generally holding the ball and get our usual game going, hopefully we'll already be in decent nick when the time comes we do have play on the break.

Personally I'm not seeing McGinn show for, demand and ultimately get on the ball as much as he was last season. Whilst he's not playing badly most of his good work has been in 'moments' rather than in a sustained, consistent and dominant manner. For me this is of course because he's at a higher level against quicker, stronger and more intelligent players and as result will have to adapt so that he's working the ball a bit quicker and crucially getting into better spaces on the pitch in order to receive the ball.

Edited by Dr_Pangloss
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