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Dean Smith


Demitri_C

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Think there is a distinction between what could be considered a penalty and between what a team like us can be expected to be awarded away to one of the big clubs.

Never expected the McGinn incident to be given, VAR or no VAR.

Edit: Kane would have gotten it.

Edited by sne
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1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Never thought it was a penalty for the foul on McGinn. I am however absolutely sure it was a foul on El Ghazi, and about 10 fouls on Wesley. 

i thought it was a penalty, was livid when nothing came of this, was VAR even checked? 

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2 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

They didn't stop the game & wait around for 2 minutes but it was definitely checked and VAR ruled no pen. the ball went out of play very soon after the incident and the ref did pause for a second or two when he was getting the message. There were 7 VAR checks in total during the game.The ony one that really stands out as causing any sort of delay was when they checked to see if Mcginn was going to be sent off for booting walker-peters.

I’m intrigued how you know how many there were ?

I know they go on throughout the game and we don’t get to hear about most of them...and I saw one at the ground but had no idea what it was for....which I now think is what you refer to as the McGinn one but wasn’t in the least clear at the time...but how do you discover the total checks ?

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1 minute ago, terrytini said:

I’m intrigued how you know how many there were ?

I know they go on throughout the game and we don’t get to hear about most of them...and I saw one at the ground but had no idea what it was for....which I now think is what you refer to as the McGinn one but wasn’t in the least clear at the time...but how do you discover the total checks ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49307496

Quote

Tottenham 3-1 Aston Villa

Seven checks, no overturned decisions

The incident: John McGinn goes down in the Tottenham box as Danny Rose races in to stop him shooting. Chris Kavanagh says no penalty and VAR agrees.

Former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher's verdict: "McGinn just pushed the ball a bit too far in front of him and then barged into Rose. No penalty."

The incident: McGinn is involved again. Kyle Walker-Peters is furious after he thinks he gets a boot on the floor from the Villa midfielder, but a quick VAR check says no red card.

Gallagher's verdict: "This was a check just to make sure nothing untoward had happened. It was a tangle between the players but no red card offence."

more in the link

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1 hour ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

Was looking forward to getting back to prem standard refs after the shit we had to put up last 3 years.

that West Ham game, watch City's 5th, Haller is speared to the ground before Mahrez puts Sterling in, nothing. Ref sees it, lets it go. Whats worse is VAR doesnt even look at it, despite in being in the exact same phase that leads to the goal. It's ridiculous

Well I’m hazy as to how they prove it, but VAR allegedly WILL have looked at it, as it was a possible foul in the lead up to a goal.

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1 minute ago, terrytini said:

Well I’m hazy as to how they prove it, but VAR allegedly WILL have looked at it, as it was a possible foul in the lead up to a goal.

I don't think that's true.

I don't think VAR looks at fouls unless they're a potential red card or they're in the penalty area. Doesn't matter if it leads to a goal.

 

Happy to be corrected, that's just from memory.

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2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think that's true.

I don't think VAR looks at fouls unless they're a potential red card or they're in the penalty area. Doesn't matter if it leads to a goal.

 

Happy to be corrected, that's just from memory.

All though we seem to be veering OT

I was looking into this a little earlier before coming into this thread.

Quote

When can VAR be used in Premier League games?

VAR will be used in all 360 Premier League matches this season.

It will only be used for incidents involving:

  • each goal scored
  • each penalty awarded
  • each straight red card shown
  • cases of mistaken identity

The technology cannot be used to advise on:

  • yellow cards, including second yellows
  • potential fouls in ordinary open play
  • to decide on corner or throw-in awards.

VAR can also alert officials of incidents of foul play missed by a referee, such as an off-the ball incident.

Apologies it's the Sun but an okay article on it...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9625785/var-premier-league-rules-2019-20-video-referee/

 

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6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think that's true.

I don't think VAR looks at fouls unless they're a potential red card or they're in the penalty area. Doesn't matter if it leads to a goal.

 

Happy to be corrected, that's just from memory.

I thought it was any offence by the attacking side if a goal resulted from the phase.

But, like you, I could be wrong....I did think I was fully genned up on the new rules and the VAR rules but, like anything, it’s only when they have to be applied younrealsie you aren’t quite sure after all !

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Just now, terrytini said:

I thought it was any offence by the attacking side if a goal resulted from the phase.

But, like you, I could be wrong....I did think I was fully genned up on the new rules and the VAR rules but, like anything, it’s only when they have to be applied younrealsie you aren’t quite sure after all !

Yeah potentially it is, especially looking at that article that was just posted.

 

But we're veering OT

I love Dean Smith!

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31 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Just curious about why you say that.  I've seen quite a few others also say this. 

The replay shows he was charged into with no contact on the ball.  Why no pen? If the player had got a foot to the ball at the same time OK but for me this is the whole point of VAR to see things the ref misses at normal speed with the naked eye. 

Similarly Jack's dispossession for their second was a foul as the player went through Jack's foot to get to the ball. 

Can only speak for myself, and the way I saw it the spurs defeder ran into his position or zonal area. McGinn lost balance charging forwards and ran into the spurs player. Then he was floored, as much by his own doing than anyone else. Think where others see the spurs player charging into McGinn, I see McGinn charging into the spurs player. 

Now even if the spurs player did something that was breaking the rules, it was very minimal. And in my opinion this is a contact sport where you can't go around giving cheap penalties. But that's just my POV. Not saying it's right. 

Edited by KenjiOgiwara
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5 hours ago, Dave-R said:

I do not remember seeing var on it, well then I'll take your word for it.

Don't understand it though, if you look at it, the Spurs player was simply going to charge Mcginn down and Mcginn had the ball and felt like he had to go down to protect himself also. Both went down in close proximity to one n other, that the Spurs player clearly were going to block the run in a nasty way.

It's clear Var has issues at the moment.

Which does bring me to the rest. I've been saying since spurs game that our players need to be more stronger on the ball. Mcginn in that instance went down to easy, yet if he'd of stayed on his feet, spurs would of created that problem properly instead of us trying to aid in helping the penalty happen.

Our players need to stay on there feet more or we will be bullied to much.

I think it will be a feature of whether we stay up or not.....yeah! that crucial for me.

Its just certain players for me Dave ....I think Mings and McGinn have no issues, I think Heaton is stronger than Steer....I know you mentioned the possible penalty call, I think he was clattered.

I have no issues if a player is clattered, that is a foul for me.....its the strong challenge that worries me, some of our players need to be more streetwise. I think Dean was alluding to that too.

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Can only speak for myself, and the way I saw it the spurs defeder ran into his position or zonal area. McGinn lost balance charging forwards and ran into the spurs player. Then he was floored, as much by his own doing than anyone else. Think where others see the spurs player charging into McGinn, I see McGinn charging into the spurs player. 

Now even if the spurs player did something that was breaking the rules, it was very minimal. And in my opinion this is a contact sport where you can't go around giving cheap penalties. But that's just my POV. Not saying it's right. 

I agree, I don't think it was a pen, I'd have been livid if it'd been given against us.

The problem is it's one of those that you've seen given, and we're all naturally disappointed as we believe that if it had been the other way around it would have not only been awarded a penalty, but VAR and the pundits analysing the game would all agree because of the contact

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28 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

How do you get Danny Rose and Davinson Sanchez mixed up FFS.

I was so confused reading that. The only coming together of McGinn and Rose I remember is when SJM sat him on his ass for the goal.

That was a clear penalty too. Not sure how the ref, linesman (who was right in front of it) and VAR all missed that.

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20 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Ref was just awful all game. Let Sanchez get away with these fouls all game, one of them crucially for what was a clear penalty.

I'm sure brown envelopes are still part and parcel of pro football.

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7 minutes ago, Dave_jW said:

I'm sure brown envelopes are still part and parcel of pro football.

Nah. Not at Premier League level, and certainly not for opening day fixtures vs Aston Villa

The consequences are too huge.

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2 hours ago, MickeyC_UTV said:

If the description of the potential McGinn penalty really was that, “McGinn pushes the ball too far forward and then barges into Rose”, then we really might as well scrap the VAR now. Because that’s not what the reality of replays show.

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It's a new start for Smith despite him being at the club getting on to a year now. New league, new standards. I think it worth remembering the shaky start he had last season.

We can only endeavour to uphold successful traits of the team dynamic that can carry over from last season and be applied here and now. As Smith tries to create a team.

We can't actually replicate the past as it's a different campaign with different dynamics, at best we find situations where we can capitalise if we find ourselves in a similar scenario.

Sure, we've got some players who will be deciding in how we fare this season, that were also pivotal in our promotion season. Even those players will need to reinvent themselves now.

As we saw at Spurs, the remaining chemistry of the team built last season is going to need to improve if we want to overcome the best at this level. That means we can't just rinse repeat.

New identity and approaches are required to be implemented and maintained with a view for ongoing development if we are to hit our targets and goals of becoming a PL force.

Smith will need time and patience again.

 

Edited by A'Villan
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I spoke to someone this week, that had to have a non villa interaction with Dean. I don't want to go into detail with what it was, but this gentleman told me he came away thoroughly impressed at how humble, kind, and genuine he was. 

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