Dean Smith

[hippo]

18 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

But we will never know will we and why because of our impatient attitude compared to the rest if the clubs out there. For all we know any one of those managers at any point given extra time could of completely turned it around.

It's that exact thinking and more of the same that is leaving us in the world of deja vu or ground hogs day.

About time that we changed and changed towards who ever is in charge. I mean Smith has hardly been in, he's had a string of wins and a string of draws and already you have this stupid talk of sacking him by some, for what he's not been losing games really.

Again if we are to dig ourselves away from what is a bad habbit of sacking managers way to early, we might actually find we end up getting somewhere.

But some of you will keep wanting a guy in charge for a season or two, change if he doesn't win all in hopes that we will be lucky enough to find a White Knight.

While many of the premiere teams were keeping there managers and keeping a stable ship, we were becoming one step closer to our fall from the premiere. Look at Alex Ferguson, in his first season nearly got the sack from man Utd, yet they stayed with him and in the end won countless trophy and seasons. If we stay with someone we have more chance of being a stable ship, keep changing and I think we will be doomed to go down even further into lower leagues.

What are our options:

Smith rebuilds, his season is whatever it is, then let him add to his squad making it better the season after and refining our squad. go with the flow and be patient and eventually something happens.

Or Smith rebuilds, season doesn't work out, vet rid, bring someone else in, go through another rebuild again and it's more of the same.

Get rid now which in my eyes would be completely stupid considering many things which have been said much before, pull someone else in and let them have the rebuild which means it may or may not be worse than Smith's.

The owners go after a legend in the business of promotion, which to point out we've tried before and ended up being cabbaged. 

I think as well that after Bruce got cabbaged that no high profile coach or manager will even look in our direction. We bought ourselves a world of hurt with that grocery attack and no one that good with such a reputation will come to our club and risk being ridiculed like that and who could blame them, it was a next level of disrespect really.

So can you think of any other options we have because it's time I think that we change the past twenty years of doing more of the same, actually find someone to stick by for a change and try that route.

I think you are reading too much into what is posted on here and on social media. Personally I still think Smith is odds on to start next season.

I really don't see in recent times a villa manager who was sacked to early. Much is made of Norwich sticking by Farke - but they never really looked in relegation trouble and finished firmly in mid table. Unless we slide towards to relegation places smith will start next season.

In addition you might be surprised to know that most clubs change managers every 2.5 seasons - Both Farke and Beisla are within that window. Though it can work its a chicken and the egg  situation - a manager is successful, he stays longer - if he isn't successful he gets the push - thats pretty much how most clubs operate, I wouldn't see Aston Villa as an exception.

Smith will probably start next season - From there on he will stay or go dependent on results- He knows that, its the same at most clubs.   

[VillanousOne]

13 minutes ago, hippo said:

Smith will probably start next season -  

at right back?

[Mark Albrighton]

Yeah, while I’m not saying changing managers has been good for us, as Hippo says I don’t think any of our past 6 or 7 managers were let go too soon.

I don’t think we’re particularly worse than most clubs in changing managers anyway. Take Wolves for instance, their fans will point to Nuno, but they had Kenny Jackett as their manager in July 2016, Walter Zenga was in charge until October, Lambert was in charge until May 2017 and then they brought in Nuno. Four managers in about 10-11 months. And that’s if I don’t include Rob Edwards as interim manager.

[VillanousOne]

It feels like it is the same argument every season with a new manager, we the fans have usually had a long run of terrible mismanagement at every level of the club before we then get a new manager and even new owners.

There is huge impatience because of what we have endured before that new manager, we cling on to hope because we supposedly have the dregs of a Premier League squad and don't belong in the Championship.

Truth is our squad is awful and ravaged by injuries and whilst i don't enjoy watching us anymore or even hold out hope we will improve at any point soon we need to hope Dean knows what he has planned. Doesn't mean I am particularly impressed with what he is doing with the players we have and as many have stated you'd hope he could do better even if no ones expectations anymore are around getting promoted, not getting utterly humiliated every week doesn't seem an unfair expectation.

Edited February 22, 2019 by VillanousOne

[NIVillan]

I keep repeating myself, Little had a dodgy start to his managerial career at Villa when he took over part way through a season, just missing relegation.  He gets a summer and transformed the team where we won a cup and finished top 4 the following season.

Following that we had 3 or four seasons top 6.  Something we hadn't repeated since the 1930s.

 

 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, NIVillan said:

I keep repeating myself, Little had a dodgy start to his managerial career at Villa when he took over part way through a season, just missing relegation.  He gets a summer and transformed the team where we won a cup and finished top 4 the following season.

Following that we had 3 or four seasons top 6.  Something we hadn't repeated since the 1930s.

 

 

All True. - Not quite sure of you're point ? - If the season ended now, Smith would start next season - If Smiths Villa come out of the blocks next season like Brian Little's team did then everyone is happy. 

[NIVillan]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

All True. - Not quite sure of you're point ? - If the season ended now, Smith would start next season - If Smiths Villa come out of the blocks next season like Brian Little's team did then everyone is happy. 

Give him time is my point.   We cant keep burning through managers.

[hippo]

29 minutes ago, NIVillan said:

Give him time is my point.   We cant keep burning through managers.

As I said a couple of posts back:-

1.There is every indication he will start next season 

2.Aston Villa doesn't have a recent history of firing managers early. (in relative terms) 

 

[villabromsgrove]

Smith was brought in to do a specific coaching job. The plan has been laid out very clearly by Sawiris, Edens and Purslow .... scout and buy younger talented players with the right character and ability for Dean Smith to coach and integrate into an attractive attacking team. The rationale is that AVFC adds value to each of these players so that they can be sold at a profit in order to allow the continual refreshing of a young and hungry team.

It might sound simplistic but adding value to young players is what Dean Smith is all about. If and when we get promoted back to the Premier League the basic plan will need a sharp upgrade, but until then our way forward is clear.

It hasn't started yet, because too many older high waged players are acting as blockers until the end of this season. This summer transfer window is the 'kick off' to NSWE's project.

When Smith said yesterday that he can't change things but he can try to improve us, he was referring to the outlook for the rest of this season only. The team and management need our support while we get through this very temporary  hiatus.

[Demitri_C]

We haven’t scored a away goal in 2019 under smith. Pretty pathetic. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

We haven’t scored a away goal in 2019 under smith. Pretty pathetic. 

Or you could say we haven’t scored an away goal in the last 3 away games which is still crap but what’s the turn of the year got to do with it?

or are you just trying to make it sound as ‘pathetic’ as possible?

[jim]

3 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

 

It might sound simplistic but adding value to young players is what Dean Smith is all about. If and when we get promoted back to the Premier League the basic plan will need a sharp upgrade, but until then our way forward is clear.

Incorrect. It is what Brentford are all about. They have a tonne of coaches and analysts to do just that. Smith had very little to do with it. 

[Sam3773]

12 minutes ago, jim said:

Incorrect. It is what Brentford are all about. They have a tonne of coaches and analysts to do just that. Smith had very little to do with it. 

Unless he brought that 'tonne of coaches and analysts' with him from Walsall, it is what he's about. 

As for his contribution at Brentford, I think Smith having 'very little' to do with it is probably a statement only a coach or player at Brentford could make. 

 

Unless you work for Bielsa..? 

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

Unless he brought that 'tonne of coaches and analysts' with him from Walsall, it is what he's about. 

As for his contribution at Brentford, I think Smith having 'very little' to do with it is probably a statement only a coach or player at Brentford could make. 

 

Unless you work for Bielsa..? 

He didnt.

the Brentford fan on here as pretty confirmed it. Warbutton quit brentford because of lack of control of transfers. Smith was happy to take the job under those circs.

Whilst I doubt Brentford imposed players on smith. He probably wasnt involved that much in finding them.

 

[Sam3773]

12 minutes ago, hippo said:

He didnt.

the Brentford fan on here as pretty confirmed it. Warbutton quit brentford because of lack of control of transfers. Smith was happy to take the job under those circs.

Whilst I doubt Brentford imposed players on smith. He probably wasnt involved that much in finding them.

 

Yet he managed to bring a few from Walsall in with him? 

There's no denying he wasn't the decision maker on transfers though, the point was about him developing youth players which is something he's done all of his career. 

I find it absurd that someone thinks Smith had 'very little' to coaching and developing the young players, as the head coach. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Sam3773

[jim]

22 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

Unless he brought that 'tonne of coaches and analysts' with him from Walsall, it is what he's about. 

As for his contribution at Brentford, I think Smith having 'very little' to do with it is probably a statement only a coach or player at Brentford could make. 

 

Unless you work for Bielsa..? 

But he didn’t. Brentford have coaches for all areas of play with the sole purpose of developing players to improve them and sell on for a profit. It is their model. They also have a team of analysts to assess the players. 

He may have brought in a couple of his men but they were a very small part of the overall set up at Brentford. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

17 minutes ago, hippo said:

He didnt.

the Brentford fan on here as pretty confirmed it. Warbutton quit brentford because of lack of control of transfers. Smith was happy to take the job under those circs.

Whilst I doubt Brentford imposed players on smith. He probably wasnt involved that much in finding them.

 

Surely he still outlined the type of player he needs to play his way?

The onus is as much on the DOF for our success as it is Smith.  DOF brings in the players, Smith coaches them. If after the the new players are bought in we are still shit then Smith has to go. 

[Sam3773]

We're descending into madness here. Now we're to believe Smith had very little to do with coaching at Brentford, and in fact there was an army of 300 coaches who did it all while Smith stared longingly at a poster of Paul Mcgrath. 

The 10 games before Smith left, Brentford took 14 points. The 10 games after they took 4. What happened if not Smith then? The Shoelace tying coach take a sabbatical? 

A crazy point to disprove a crazy statement. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Sam3773

[Vive_La_Villa]

I think it will remain the same pointless repeated debate over and over until one of three things happen:

1. He manages to turn the form around.

2. He doesn’t manage to turn it around but gets a pre season and his own players in, then we have around 10 games. 

3. He gets sacked (the obvious one).

Until then it’s the Steve Bruce thread all over again!!

[jim]

On 12/10/2018 at 00:57, Stinglikeabee said:

Wotcha all. Brentford fan here. Quite happy to see Dean get his dream move. He did a decent job at Brentford but the feeling is that he didn't really quite achieve as much as he could have, but who knows?

Just a potted history but Smith came into Brentford at a time when we were happy with Lee Carsley as our caretaker, who took over from a disaster of a Dutch manager. What struck me was that Smith didn't really do anything with the team and a run of 10 defeats in 13 games in the league was followed by a run of 7 wins in 9 to convince the fans that he had the ability to take us into his full first season.

His next season was interesting because of our inconsistency. I remember clearly that our style of football wasn't all that (inconsistent) and we had a streaky patch where a fair few fans were calling for his head because we felt our squad was underachieving. However, a patient board and his ability to turn results around saw form improve and we finished the season quite strongly to finish midtable. It was at the end of this particular season when we started to play some really attractive football and therefore convinced Brentford fans, after 18 months, that his honeymoon period was over. 

Into last season and the style of football had carried on from the end of the previous season and we looked great on the eye but the results were appalling. However, it was only a matter of time before results would pick up and they did. The football was outstanding at times, with a squad that we felt should be in the playoffs. But, our inability to counter most of the big clubs, sloppiness, concession of late goals, meant that we kept dropping points far too often and we finished outside the playoff places. Fans glossed over it by saying how close we were and the unfortunate start to the season.

Into this season, and we've played some great football again. Easy on the eye but has flaws. It requires unbelievable fitness levels and if we're only slightly off our game, we can look really ordinary. We also have struggled against teams who press us high for the entire game. Dean Smith just didn't seem to have an idea on how to counter this, as for me, the signs were there last season. Teams knew that if they could force mistakes against us high up the pitch, we looked very vulnerable. 

So, whilst our football is easy on the eye, whilst Dean Smith is undoubtedly a great man manager, I'm concerned for him at Villa. He won't have or is unlikely to have the same level of patience shown. It took over 14 months for our team to start showing the attractive football that we play. And our recruitment policy has always been to sign players who are comfortable on the ball. We had a few streaks of poor results that put him under pressure, but against pretty awful teams. 

Dean Smith never seemed to get a grip on teams that could press us for 90 minutes and a lot of Brentford fans will argue that the improvement in our style of football coincided with the appointment of ex-Brondby manager, Thomas Frank, who is tipped to be the new Brentford manager.

Brentford fans also talk of him being a cog in the machine. He benefits from a scouting system that has come about from our owner and his two DoF's who are his people. He benefits from a large number of other coaches who work on and develop many areas of our game, and he benefits from a unique analytical system where we have a number of analysts feeding information to the bench that enables him to make better informed decisions. This analytical system is also employed as part of our scouting system that enables us to assess players on every aspect of their game. 

For all these points made, Brentford fans pretty much believe that we're in a great position to get in a manager that might make better use of our squad. Had Dean Smith stayed and failed to get us into the playoffs this season, he would seriously have underachieved. And the feeling is, like we sell players at the top of their value, we've let Dean Smith go at the top of his. 

Villa is a totally different animal to Brentford. Different expectations, different pressure, different squad with bigger egos, and my fear is that Brentford was the perfect fit for him and Villa will be a step too far. I hope not, because he's an incredibly genuine person, and he's incredibly likeable in person. Please give him time and I'm sure that for all the negatives/concerns I've mentioned, he will have gained more experience during his tenure at Brentford, so everything I've said might become totally irrelevant. 

It's also interesting to note that Brentford fans don't begrudge him his dream move. He leaves on excellent terms and with our best wishes. 

P.S. any questions, I'll happily try to answer them. Obviously it's a busy forum so I'll answer what I can when I can.

Post from very early in the thread tells us a lot about the set up at Brentford.