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Dean Smith


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2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Obviously a totally different level though.

Barcelona are the cream of the crop.

For instance, I actually understood Arsenal fans frustrations with Wenger and i'm not even an Arsenal fan.

Obviously.

But fans at every club in the world with any sort of pedigree will be impatient, demanding and frustrated when things are not going like they hoped.

We are no better or worse. 

To be able to handle this pressure is a large part of the job.

Not claiming Smith can't do this, I've no idea how he's coping.

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5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You're joking aren't you?

The knives were out for Bruce in that first bad spell by those who wanted him gone from the start.

Much like is happening here with Smith.

 

It's the world of VT. You'll get a few posters who will nail their colours to the mast early on and won't waver from their opinion no matter what.

It happened with bruce, it's happened with Smith it'll happen with the next guy

Yeah if you look at the Bruce thread for mid February 2017, it’s negative, much like now in here.

Like then (I think?) I’ll broadly back Smith, but I want to see something in the last quarter of the season that gives me a bit more reason to.

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40 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

not my comparison really, Some of the smith apologists were getting hysterical about derby last night, other people were asking about derbys results compared to ours, i just provided the numbers.

We are shit, they are less shit, They have drawn an awful lot of games lately but other than that are far better off than us at the moment

Sorry mate, I know it wasn't your comparison, my final comment was not aimed at you but I should have been clearer

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2 hours ago, Zatman said:

you dont think they have had a better squad all season?

Only Villa players that get in Derby team is Tammy, Mings, Jack and McGinn. 2 are on loan(1 joined in January) and 1 is injured

You're using hindsight because they're playing well.

Would you have said the same on September 1st (once the window had closed)?

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I think we all know we should be doing better. I’m sure Smith knows this, and I’m also sure he’s had conversations with the board about it. 

He came in and we were firing going forward, but making so many mistakes at the back. He tried to stop his by changing tactics to go more defensively, that isn’t worked. 

However, I think if you look at his signings, he has identified the defence as the place to start the rebuild (it couldn’t have been done in one window, especially January). Mings looks superb, Hause is getting better each game with more fitness and then we have the French RB coming in. I think both loan signings will be permanent in the summer and will be settled. 

We can then start the midfield and attack rebuild. It’s going to take time.

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17 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

You're using hindsight because they're playing well.

Would you have said the same on September 1st (once the window had closed)?

Derby arent playing well which is the point. In similar form to us at the moment. 9 wins in 22, we have 7 in 22

Derby fans arent calling for Lampards head or moaning about his lack of promotion experience

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2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Derby arent playing well which is the point. In similar form to us at the moment. 9 wins in 22, we have 7 in 22

Derby fans arent calling for Lampards head or moaning about his lack of promotion experience

That's because they're doing better than us and with lower expectations.

Hence my original point that it's hardly a comparable situation.

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12 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

That's because they're doing better than us and with lower expectations.

Hence my original point that it's hardly a comparable situation.

Derby sacked a number of managers for not getting them promoted and have high expectations too

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  36minutes ago, Zatman said:

Derby arent playing well which is the point. In similar form to us at the moment. 9 wins in 22, we have 7 in 22

Derby fans arent calling for Lampards head or moaning about his lack of promotion experience.

 

 

Derby have 7 more points than us with a game in hand. They are also only 2 points off the play-offs and within 3 points of 5th. That usually doesn't get people screaming for the managers head...

They were booed off last night after only mustering 1 shot on target in their defeat to Millwall but other than that there season seems to be going pretty well.

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1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Yeah if you look at the Bruce thread for mid February 2017, it’s negative, much like now in here.

Like then (I think?) I’ll broadly back Smith, but I want to see something in the last quarter of the season that gives me a bit more reason to.

Pretty much the boat I am in, I want him to succeed, but I also want him to turn this around and have a decent run from now until the end of the season, I certainly think questions have to be asked if this run was to continue until the season end 

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1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Derby sacked a number of managers for not getting them promoted and have high expectations too

Again, failing to see the relevance to our situation. 

And anyway, let's say for example their expectations are absolutely in line with ours - they're doing better than us! 

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3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I don't know, call and ask them. 

I'll assume you disagree with me though (safe bet) and believe theirs to be in line with ours. 

There’s no need to be defensive, I asked you a question. You seem to have an idea what their expectations are, I just wanted you to clarify what they were. I don’t believe I’ve been particularly disagreeable with you, but whatever you think, fine.

They finished in the play offs last season, we finished in the play offs last season. Is it massively unreasonable to suggest the aim at the start of the season for both clubs, or rather the club’s supporters was emulating that?

Yep, they are much closer to achieving that goal. Since Smith has come in, Derby have gained 5 more points than we have over each of the club’s previous 21 games, it’s not a huge difference when you consider injuries to key players, other players seemingly on their way out while struggling to adapt to a new style mid season is it?

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1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said:

There’s no need to be defensive, I asked you a question. You seem to have an idea what their expectations are, I just wanted you to clarify what they were. I don’t believe I’ve been particularly disagreeable with you, but whatever you think, fine.

They finished in the play offs last season, we finished in the play offs last season. Is it massively unreasonable to suggest the aim at the start of the season for both clubs, or rather the club’s supporters was emulating that?

Yep, they are much closer to achieving that goal. Since Smith has come in, Derby have gained 5 more points than we have over each of the club’s previous 21 games, it’s not a huge difference when you consider injuries to key players, other players seemingly on their way out while struggling to adapt to a new style mid season is it?

No it's not and I'm sure, along with many other clubs they had one (maybe one and a half) eye on promotion.

However, they were not relegated a few years ago (last in the PL in 2008), they have not repeatedly been told or told themselves that they're the biggest club in the division with the biggest budget and the best resources and one of (if not the) best squads in the division. They have not won the European Cup nor won anything close the honours we have, they do not have a 42,000 seat stadium that IF they were playing well, could be filled with regularity. They do not have parachute payments ending soon.

So fine, they may well have ambitions to be promoted, but that's where the comparisons end as far as I'm concerned in terms of expectations and more importantly, fans expectations.

I don't think I've ever talked/thought about Derby this much before!!

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6 hours ago, Zatman said:

you dont think they have had a better squad all season?

Only Villa players that get in Derby team is Tammy, Mings, Jack and McGinn. 2 are on loan(1 joined in January) and 1 is injured

Derby do not have a better squad

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4 hours ago, Farlz said:

What the hell does he do with our midfield on Saturday? Surely he must know a 3 of Whelan, Jedinak and Hourihane will be a disaster. 

Carroll is back in training.

Kalinic

Back Four

El Ghazi Carroll Hourihane Adomah

Abraham Kodjia

OR

Kalinic

Back Four

Whelan

El Ghazi Carroll Hourihane Adomah

Abraham

 

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1 minute ago, A'Villan said:

Carroll is back in training.

Kalinic

Back Four

El Ghazi Carroll Hourihane Adomah

Abraham Kodjia

OR

Kalinic

Back Four

Whelan

El Ghazi Carroll Hourihane Adomah

Abraham

 

Smith said Stoke is too early for Carroll. Will be back for Derby.

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1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

No it's not and I'm sure, along with many other clubs they had one (maybe one and a half) eye on promotion.

However, they were not relegated a few years ago (last in the PL in 2008), they have not repeatedly been told or told themselves that they're the biggest club in the division with the biggest budget and the best resources and one of (if not the) best squads in the division. They have not won the European Cup nor won anything close the honours we have, they do not have a 42,000 seat stadium that IF they were playing well, could be filled with regularity. They do not have parachute payments ending soon.

So fine, they may well have ambitions to be promoted, but that's where the comparisons end as far as I'm concerned in terms of expectations and more importantly, fans expectations.

I don't think I've ever talked/thought about Derby this much before!!

That’s all fine, I don’t particularly disagree with that. I believe the comparison was purely between two sides who both missed out on promotion last season, with ambition to challenge for that again and both having new managers this season (one with more experience, the other that’s had more time with his players). It’s not a perfect comparison, but these things rarely are.

The board over the last two years gambled and it didn’t work. The board this season seem to be of a more considered approach and accepting of the reality we’re in (although there are some things that have contradicted that, so not completely convinced on that myself). As you say, there are going to be cutbacks and they’ve seemingly employed someone who has been able to operate on a budget previously.

Ignoring comparisons to particular clubs, if the season started when Smith took over, we’d be 11th, 7 points off a play off position and I believe 10 points off automatic promotion (as best as I can make out). All things considered, I would say that’s maybe a bit below average. I had my reservations before he was appointed (they can be found in the relevant thread) and I still have reservations now. But as with the previous manager, I’m trying to allow him a bit of time to show he can correct things.

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