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Dean Smith

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25 minutes ago, Merson08 said:

When the pressure is on and he needs to keep up with the pack we let ourselves down. We were well within a playoff spot chance not long ago only 4 points from it. Now were 9 points off which could potentially be 15 points.

Thats what i find crazy.

We are getting worse under Smith, he hasn't improved us at all. 7 wins in 22, we are going backwards at an alarming rate. 

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1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

One player does not make a team and he brought him in didn't he so not sure what the point is? 

 

It does according to a vast majority of VT’ers.

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Thread is a good read. Straight from the horse's mouth, echoing what people have been saying re: Grealish/Tuanzebe.

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5 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Thread is a good read. Straight from the horse's mouth, echoing what people have been saying re: Grealish/Tuanzebe.

I’d say it’s a bit more than “frustrating”. The word I have in mind does begin with “f” and ends in “e”, with “ailur” in the middle.

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3 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

I’d say it’s a bit more than “frustrating”. The word I have in mind does begin with “f” and ends in “e”, with “ailur” in the middle.

Failures to do what exactly?

He's been in charge 20 games. What was the 20 game remit that he's failed to achieve?

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48 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I did watch and to be honest Brentford wern't all that much better than us to be honest and they only capitalised very late with a sucker punch.

Let's remind ourselves where are both teams in the League? So I don't see the comparison in that comment.

Yes it is frustrating, it's equally frustrating for the fans to witness. It's also your job to manage to be able to adapt.

Ole Gunnar Solsjkear is sitting back with his feet up at Man Utd going a breeze after inherting Mourinho's Mess. Look at what's been happening there lately.

He has adapted to the players way, letting them express themselves whilst sprinkling in a bit of the "Fergie way" mentality dust alongside them and it's working wonders Dean.

Perhaps if you start taking full control of the team, get a better assistant or two (one that has a clue and the other that can work full time and not just two/three days a week with the players) and I think that would begin to make a difference.

Also, Maybe adapting to the remaining players you do have, let the players express themselves the way they do  know and are happy and familiar with and I am sure you will soon get a tune out of them for the remaining games.

But no, from what I am gathering, you need a pre season, need your own players and play your way.

Again, also not very convincing imo.

Edited by AvfcRigo82
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17 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Ole Gunnar Solsjkear is sitting back with his feet up at Man Utd going a breeze after inherting Mourinho's Mess. Look at what's been happening there lately.

He has adapted to the players way, letting them express themselves whilst sprinkling in a bit of the "Fergie way" mentality dust alongside them and it's working wonders Dean.

What a fantastic comparison.

55800512.jpg

Manchester United have a playing squad that cost around three quarters of a billion Euros to assemble. They're one of the biggest names in world football. They have World Cup winners in their squad. Unfortunately for them, they had a manager who could not impose his style onto the team, as it didn't seem to suit them. Now they've been allowed to express themselves and as a result are able to beat teams weaker than them.

Dean Smith wants us to play a more expressive, attacking style - or at least he says so. We haven't been doing that lately, and although that's at least partially due to the crap we have in some positions and a clear lack of confidence among the players, yes he does have to take a major part of the responsibility for that. But to suggest that he simply needs to sprinkle some sort of magic dust on the side and all will be well is as much of a fairytale as it sounds. And the idea that Solskjær has simply waltzed into United and is "sitting back with his feet up" is just as laughably make-believe.

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46 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Failures to do what exactly?

He's been in charge 20 games. What was the 20 game remit that he's failed to achieve?

To improve us? 

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Really odd that some people are getting on Smith's back after 20 games, calling his brief tenure a failure but were making excuses for Bruce's failure right til the end even after 2 years and 4 transfer windows 🤔

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14 minutes ago, Troglodyte said:

What a fantastic comparison.

Manchester United have a playing squad that cost around three quarters of a billion Euros to assemble.

Unfortunately for them, they had a manager who could not impose his style onto the team, as it didn't seem to suit them. Now they've been allowed to express themselves and as a result are able to beat teams weaker than them.

Dean Smith wants us to play a more expressive, attacking style - or at least he says so. We haven't been doing that lately, and although that's at least partially due to the crap we have in some positions and a clear lack of confidence among the players, yes he does have to take a major part of the responsibility for that. But to suggest that he simply needs to sprinkle some sort of magic dust on the side and all will be well is as much of a fairytale as it sounds. And the idea that Solskjær has simply waltzed into United and is "sitting back with his feet up" is just as laughably make-believe.

The compaisons in managers and what they have done in the game and teams managed.

Jose Mourinho - Endless clubs.

Ole Gunnar Solsjkear - Molde.

I am not comparing the Millions the squads cost but more what a different manager can do with the same group of players.

The second part I agree with as I stated this orignally.

As for the bold highlighted. We were playing fine attacking football tearing teams apart after his 3rd or 4th game in charge right up to Leeds.

I suppose we will just use Jack's absence though to blame for shit results and performances that have followed though.

As for your last part on Solsjkear. You need to take a look at Man Utd and what's been happening since he arrived mate. It's been a proper wankfest so far and to hear him and the players speak about the transition since his arrival tells it otherwise. ;)

Edited by AvfcRigo82

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5 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The compaisons in managers and what they have done in the game and teams managed.

Jose Mourinho - Endless clubs.

Ole Gunnar Solsjkear - Molde.

I am not comparing the Millions the squads cost but more what a different manager can do with the same group of players.

The second part I agree with as I stated this orignally.

As for the bold highlighted. We were playing fine attacking football tearing teams apart after his 3rd or 4th game in charge right up to Leeds.

I suppose we will just use Jack's absence though to blame for that though.

As for your last part on Solsjkear. You need to take a look at Man Utd and what's been happening since he arrived mate. ;)

You seem to be ignoring or forgetting his first 10 games when he had a fit squad to choose from. We played completely different football to anything we have seen since MON left.

It's not like we have NEVER performed under Smith. He's literally laying out in detail why it's worked for him in the early part of his tenure and why it isn't working like he wants it now. But instead of taking his word for it, he's wrong because OGS. Hmm, ok.

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14 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

The compaisons in managers and what they have done in the game and teams managed.

Jose Mourinho - Endless clubs.

Ole Gunnar Solsjkear - Molde.

I am not comparing the Millions the squads cost but more what a different manager can do with the same group of players.

The second part I agree with as I stated this orignally.

As for the bold highlighted. We were playing fine attacking football tearing teams apart after his 3rd or 4th game in charge right up to Leeds.

I suppose we will just use Jack's absence though to blame for that though.

As for your last part on Solsjkear. You need to take a look at Man Utd and what's been happening since he arrived mate. It's been a proper wankfest so far and to hear him and the players speak about the transition since his arrival tells you otherwise. ;)

I don't really get your point other than stating that a different manager can have an effect on a team. Which is true, but as I said before, we're incredibly different to Man United in that our problem isn't our manager restricting a group of incredibly talented players from expressing themselves. So the situation doesn't compare in any way at all, other than they were underperforming just like we are now.

And yes, we were playing attractive, attacking football until a few games into Smith's reign. That just reinforces the idea that the problem isn't him discouraging the players from doing that so we don't need someone new in to give them more freedom. Smith isn't Mourinho. (Other reasons for wanting rid of him might be more valid, although personally I think we need to keep him, rebuild in the summer and stick together.) Of course losing Jack has been a major factor in our drop-off, but that issue in itself needs to be addressed. There are other factors though, as your say: opponents being able to expose our flaws for one, and yes, perhaps coaching is an issue. But magic beans and fairy dust isn't going to cure that!

 

 

Edited by Troglodyte

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25 minutes ago, Troglodyte said:

What a fantastic comparison.

55800512.jpg

Manchester United have a playing squad that cost around three quarters of a billion Euros to assemble. They're one of the biggest names in world football. They have World Cup winners in their squad. Unfortunately for them, they had a manager who could not impose his style onto the team, as it didn't seem to suit them. Now they've been allowed to express themselves and as a result are able to beat teams weaker than them.

Dean Smith wants us to play a more expressive, attacking style - or at least he says so. We haven't been doing that lately, and although that's at least partially due to the crap we have in some positions and a clear lack of confidence among the players, yes he does have to take a major part of the responsibility for that. But to suggest that he simply needs to sprinkle some sort of magic dust on the side and all will be well is as much of a fairytale as it sounds. And the idea that Solskjær has simply waltzed into United and is "sitting back with his feet up" is just as laughably make-believe.

You trying to tell me that if OGS allowed Glen Whelan, Connor Hourihane, Alan Hutton and Neil Taylor to "express themselves" we wouldn't be dominating the league?

It works with the likes of Pogba, Anthony Martial, Rashford and Ashley Young (one of their weaker players) so why can't we emulate that here?

 

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3 hours ago, TRO said:

However, I don't think the Brentford Model will work with us.....I don't see us going up without a discerning view on defence.....I mean, the whole team having an ability to defend.....See Man U last night or Albion against us.

That's my main issue as well with Dean Smith.

And i don't understand why people are ignoring it. He's defensive record at every clubs he's managed has been very poor.

It's very hard to get promoted if you concede 50+ goals every season.

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10 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You seem to be ignoring or forgetting his first 10 games when he had a fit squad to choose from. We played completely different football to anything we have seen since MON left.

It's not like we have NEVER performed under Smith. He's literally laying out in detail why it's worked for him in the early part of his tenure and why it isn't working like he wants it now. But instead of taking his word for it, he's wrong because OGS. Hmm, ok.

Again, What is going to happen next year when injuries happen....

Grealish has already started more games this season that he did last year under Bruce, We managed ok without him, adapted and won more often than not over the course of the season.

He has managed 40 starts in 2 years.  If you are so reliant on one player that your entire strategy & gameplan completely collapses if he isn't there it is probably better if that person is actually fit and able to play for more than 40% of each years games

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1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Ole Gunnar Solsjkear is sitting back with his feet up at Man Utd going a breeze after inherting Mourinho's Mess. Look at what's been happening there lately.

He has adapted to the players way, letting them express themselves whilst sprinkling in a bit of the "Fergie way" mentality dust alongside them and it's working wonders Dean.

Good point. I've seen their games against Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. And he installed different tactics and formations in all those games.

He actually adapts based on the players available to get the most out of them. Can you ever see Dean Smith doing that? No, he plays the same exact way in every single game, so easy and predictable to play against.

Fair enough when he get's the right players for his system then ok. But right now DS have to adapt to the squad, not the other way around.

Edited by villalad21
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11 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Again, What is going to happen next year when injuries happen....

Grealish has already started more games this season that he did last year under Bruce, We managed ok without him, adapted and won more often than not over the course of the season.

He has managed 40 starts in 2 years.  If you are so reliant on one player that your entire strategy & gameplan completely collapses if he isn't there it is probably better if that person is actually fit and able to play for more than 40% of each years games

Bruce played a style that wasn't as reliant on Grealish, it's that simple. Smith hasn't had a summer window to even address a replacement/backup for Grealish. He's brought in Carroll as a short term stop-gap, hopefully next year he'll have made the necessary signings to be able to cope with injuries.

Overall I think it's really unfair to judge Smith on what is a complete overhaul of style and ethos when he hasn't even had a fraction of the time needed to achieve it.

Smith is literally telling everyone 'it takes time to build what I'm building. I'm using someone else's squad, built for a completely different style. With Grealish and Tuanzebe I had the tools to make it work in the short term, but we're struggling now that they're injured'. Are "yeah but he should be able to cope without the best player on the league, one of the few in the squad suited to the style he's trying to implement" or "but what about OGS doing better with a half a billion pound squad than his predecessor" really fair responses to that?

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2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Smith is literally telling everyone 'it takes time to build what I'm building. I'm using someone else's squad, built for a completely different style.

Then use that different style to get the most out of the group.

Either he is just stubborn as f*** or he actually got no footballing brain at all.

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Just now, villalad21 said:

Then use that different style to get the most out of the group.

Either he is just stubborn as f*** or he actually got no footballing brain at all.

The group is largely unsuited to that style, that's the whole point he's trying to make? 

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21 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

 "yeah but he should be able to cope without the best player on the league, one of the few in the squad suited to the style he's trying to implement"

He is far from the best player in the league, He might be one of the better ones when he is actually fit enough to play but missing half of 2 seasons makes him completely unreliable. You can not build something around someone that isn't fit 60% of the time.

20 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Then use that different style to get the most out of the group.

Either he is just stubborn as f*** or he actually got no footballing brain at all.

@keyblade The group is largely unsuited to that style, that's the whole point he's trying to make? 

 

Then do something different!!! As a manager his job is to adapt and get the best out of what he has available. Playing exactly the same formation every single game because he is too stubborn to try something different even when we are absolutely shit is nothing to do with players not being suited to his style, It is him being completely unable to do anything other than operate to style that was already someone elses and he just carried on with at his previous job.

He might be good at doing dot-to-dots and colouring in books but i have yet to see that he can draw anything other than a stickman and a cock&balls

 

 

 

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