romavillan Posted February 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, hippo said: Serious - if we won 10 on the bounce - I would feel a lot happier about next season - are you saying you wouldn't ? I think if we won 10 on the bounce if would have a massive bearing on next season. We would have a guy who knows how to organise and motivate a football team at one of the divisions bigger clubs. It would have a bearing on how you feel about Smith, not about how he and the virtually entirely different squad performs in pre-season and the start of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, romavillan said: With the majority of the first team not going to be here, even improved performances are going to have very little bearing on what happens next year. I think that's all though really, playoffs have gone so I'd like to see us playing like the first half hour at the weekend as much as possible from now till the summer. We could win 10 on the bounce with this squad and it would have no bearing on next season beyond a few of the soon to be out of contract players maybe wanting to stake a claim to stay. Judging by the effort levels of some of them of late that's the last thing on their minds though. Yeah that’s exactly why I’m unsure. If he got some good performances out of players whom I think it’s generally agreed in the main aren’t going to be here next season, it would reaffirm a bit of faith that he could get performances out of the players he wants and that also want to be here. Basically if we scrape a handful of wins together and boost his win rate, that might all sound nice but I’m not sure it really answers anything. It’s going to be different whoever is in charge next season. Just don’t know, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 19, 2019 The stand out players are either McGinn, or the players he's brought in or recalled. So Motivation doesn't seem a problem there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, romavillan said: They'll get those reactions where they've gone too, just that it will be half as many people and they're away from the spotlight a bit. Like I said *might* be good for them. On the other hand though, if we wanted the remaining games to mean something in terms of performances etc, then a first team made up of the kids plus who we think will be here next year would have been a good idea. Just that can you imagine the shit they'd be getting having a run like the one we've been on? So if O'Hare (for example) comes back next season - and starts getting grief it won't be so bad - because he may or may not have experienced it at Carlisle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, hippo said: So if O'Hare (for example) comes back next season - and starts getting grief it won't be so bad - because he may or may not have experienced it at Carlisle ? He'll have got used to playing competitive football in front of a crowd with pressure on to get results in a asmaller arena, that would help him with us I'd think in terms of experience at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, romavillan said: It would have a bearing on how you feel about Smith, not about how he and the virtually entirely different squad performs in pre-season and the start of next season. Much the same thing isn't ? If we have a good manager - he will get good results - its not nearly as complicated as you are trying to make out. Good managers win watches , poor ones don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, hippo said: ???? Random ? - The question was how long would we give the next manager. Unless you know something I don't, that won't be Bruce. You said if he struggles we should look at his previous record as means for justification that he could turn it around. (As we all know "Smith is nothing but a Mid Table Championship Manager") So on that basis surely no one has a better record than Steve "4 times" Bruce? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, romavillan said: He'll have got used to playing competitive football in front of a crowd with pressure on to get results in a asmaller arena, that would help him with us I'd think in terms of experience at the very least. ...and he couldn't have got the experience in place of Hourihanne ? ...and it was ok for 17 year old Ramsey to face a 40k hostile crowd - but for some reason O'Hare needs to spend half a season at Carlisle. I don't get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: You said if he struggles we should look at his previous record as means for justification that he could turn it around. (As we all know "Smith is nothing but a Mid Table Championship Manager") So on that basis surely no one has a better record than Steve "4 times" Bruce? I don't get the continual reference to a bloke who left us some months back and now has another club. FWIW I haven't checked - But I think they may be one other who has 4 promotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, romavillan said: It would have a bearing on how you feel about Smith, not about how he and the virtually entirely different squad performs in pre-season and the start of next season. It would give reassurances that Smith can get a team playing well. We don't really have those reassurances right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, hippo said: I don't get the continual reference to a bloke who left us some months back and now has another club. FWIW I haven't checked - But I think they may be one other who has 4 promotions. So is reference information only valid when it suits your argument? Or are you admitting that there are variables to gauging the performance or potential of a manager which goes beyond "facts and records"? Edited February 19, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I 1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: So is reference information only valid when it suits your argument? I think a previous track record holds some water when choosing managers ? - Am to take it you don't ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said: In your view, what does improve drastically mean? Does it mean, say, scrape 6 or 7 wins from the final 13 games? Say the Ipswich game x 6. Wins, but not convincing. Does it mean having a bit of a topsy-turvy end to the season, a few surprising scores like Boro/Derby, along with some games where we think “ah we should have seen that through like Forest/Leeds. Some chaotic games, but with some signs there’s possibly something there with the right personnel? Does it mean more consistent, solid performances but not always getting what we should have done, like WBA away or those early Norwich/QPR games? The season’s pretty much over, Smith potentially has a fight to prove he’s up to the job next season. I’m just trying to get an idea of what exactly people want to see from Smith for the remainder of the season, to ease some of the concerns people have. For what it’s worth, I’m not entirely sure myself. I’m leaning towards more improved performances, but I can’t articulate why. Performances in the main, the two go hand in hand anyway, if you're performing well then your results will (or at least should) improve. You don't win every time you play well but if you're playing well, you should win more than you lose. I'd like to see some inventiveness from Smith, some intriguing selections and lineups, more proactive substitutions, all the things we thought we were getting basically. I'm not expecting promotion, I think it would be a tall order to even get in the playoffs now so my expectations are not so high. At the moment I feel like we're looking the worst we've looked since going down, that's a pretty major indictment of a Manager who replaced two previous alleged/perceived failures. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, romavillan said: The stand out players are either McGinn, or the players he's brought in or recalled. So Motivation doesn't seem a problem there. The point was that winning 10 on the bounce wouldn't make you feel any better or worse about next season. For me it would so I can't agree. (and I think if you are honest - you would feel better ?) Edited February 19, 2019 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, hippo said: It isn't foolproof but its the best indicator there is. Smith will have 34 games by the time the season ends - Based on current form we might get 2-3 wins of the remaining 13. If he only wins 1 then he is goner in my book. I personally think the job he has done at Brentford is overstated. I worry about who we appoint next - I doubt Smith will be here beyond Xmas even if he gets the summer. Giving any new manager a decent chance has to include time to build a squad they want and time to develop them in to a team in their vision. Smith clearly isn’t a chancer like Sherwood or someone who wasn’t fit to manage like Eric Black, so as a minimum, time should include a couple of transfer windows (definitely not just one January), a full pre-season and a dozen or so competitive games with the ‘new’ team. In any case, Smith’s good, average or poor pedigree is subjective and now irrelevant. What matters is, without giving the man a decent opportunity, we’ll never know good Smith could be at our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I've discounted this season and I'm relaxed about next season. I've looked at Smith's strengths (with the right players), the experience and contacts of both Purslow and Pitarch, and the financial backing that will be given by our rock solid owners. This season is now a count down to the day that we can begin the Villa rebuild. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, brommy said: Giving any new manager a decent chance has to include time to build a squad they want and time to develop them in to a team in their vision. Smith clearly isn’t a chancer like Sherwood or someone who wasn’t fit to manage like Eric Black, so as a minimum, time should include a couple of transfer windows (definitely not just one January), a full pre-season and a dozen or so competitive games with the ‘new’ team. In any case, Smith’s good, average or poor pedigree is subjective and now irrelevant. What matters is, without giving the man a decent opportunity, we’ll never know good Smith could be at our club. But you will never be 100% sure. You're saying give him 12 games next season ? - There will still be some saying he hasn't had time , he should have 20 ,- had bad luck with injuries, it was the ref etc. 12 games next season - If he bombs thats pretty much it for promotion next season as well - Its how sure you want to be when pulling the trigger V Writing off yet another season - and making another mid season change - which means we are very limited to who get. My view is to look at the results of remaining 13 games (My guess is they won't be overly impressive) ....and think, "Hold on", without too much disruption we could have Jovanic (or anyone else who becomes available) in by June 1 - plenty of time to prep for the new season. To my mind we are potentially paying a very high price, by giving Smith a considerable benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post screwdriver Posted February 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2019 If we don't qualify for the play offs. and I mean qualify not necessarily win. then we should bin this clown the day after the season is over. A squad with the talent we have on paper should easily do it. 3rd best squad after stoke and baggies. should be 10 points clear at the top really as it's the worst championship for years. Personally I would have sacked him saturday night. there was an opportunity to send shockwaves through the whole footballing world by appointing Jose Mourinho or Arsene Wenger. You would have sell outs every game and the players, even half arsed guys like Hourihane would run through brick walls for blokes of that calibre. The situation is now gates will gradually fall to 25k, people won't come to watch a team who can't be arsed managed by a bloke who looks like he is going to end up like gerrard houllier. many season ticket holders in my block didn't bother coming on saturday. Whats the point everyone knew what would happen? see my post in the west brom pre match thread I called it exactly right. I went in the end, but the only enjoyment I got was seeing the fat guy win the half time kick it into the big circle game. (see the pre match thread.) just call me nostradamus 1 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, screwdriver said: A squad with the talent we have on paper should easily do it. 3rd best squad after stoke and baggies. should be 10 points clear at the top really as it's the worst championship for years. Personally I would have sacked him saturday night. there was an opportunity to send shockwaves through the whole footballing world by appointing Jose Mourinho or Arsene Wenger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, screwdriver said: If we don't qualify for the play offs. and I mean qualify not necessarily win. then we should bin this clown the day after the season is over. A squad with the talent we have on paper should easily do it. 3rd best squad after stoke and baggies. should be 10 points clear at the top really as it's the worst championship for years. Personally I would have sacked him saturday night. there was an opportunity to send shockwaves through the whole footballing world by appointing Jose Mourinho or Arsene Wenger. You would have sell outs every game and the players, even half arsed guys like Hourihane would run through brick walls for blokes of that calibre. The situation is now gates will gradually fall to 25k, people won't come to watch a team who can't be arsed managed by a bloke who looks like he is going to end up like gerrard houllier. many season ticket holders in my block didn't bother coming on saturday. Whats the point everyone knew what would happen? see my post in the west brom pre match thread I called it exactly right. I went in the end, but the only enjoyment I got was seeing the fat guy win the half time kick it into the big circle game. (see the pre match thread.) just call me nostradamus I disagree totally with every single assertion. 3rd best squad? Should be 10 points clear? mourinho / wenger? 25,000 gates? nostradmus talked balls as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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