Dean Smith

[Killeen30]

17 minutes ago, romavillan said:

I think the summer is a factor in a few of them not being arsed, they may have got wind that they won't be here past June and true to the form of the last few years they don't give a monkeys. 

Yes I tend to agree. Which is a shame. Especially if the want a decent deal elsewhere. Bunch of has beens, or never weres!

I really am sick of other teams giving their youngsters a chance yet we don’t and still keep them to a fair old age. A few have mentioned Leeds. They’re purposely give their younger players a chance.Jack Clarke looks a proper player who will get a move very soon. Plays without fear. Fair play to them.

[bannedfromHandV]

It was new manager bounce wasn't it....i feel a fool, reverted to type quickly didn't we 

[Rugeley Villa]

Don’t get the new manager bounce thing. It’s like saying, ok we will try a bit harder for a bit at the start,  then slack off again. 

[Farlz]

Yesterday was bad, very bad in fact but I have 100% trust in Smith. I seen enough from our performances at the start to know there is huge potential here. 

[Reivax_Villa]

I think that we need to accept where we are as a team and club.

It was never going to be rosy when Smith got the job hard work is never easy.  Whoever thought that it would be are naive football fans.

I am accepting that this is a long term project where we need to believe in what our manager is trying to achieve.

If he is here for two seasons and we have not been promoted BUT we have a clear identity then I will still support him.

We do not have an honest bunch of players they do not work hard which is why we are inconsistent.  They think that talent alone will win them games when that is not the case.

Teams like Brighton, Huddersfield & Cardiff were not a talented side nor did they have big name players and look where they are.

The fans that want DS to be sacked and every other new manager that arrives after a few months to be sacked will never see this club succeed if they get what they want.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

He did that immediately successfully, the wheels have fallen off in the last month which coincided with Tuanzebe and Grealish out. They are both big misses, but I'm not sure to the extent we've seen us fall apart. At times yesterday it looked like McGinn versus Wigan, the rest just **** off. Smith needs to get us back to his basics of first touch, passing, movement, protecting the ball, pressing. If the players out yesterday apart from McGinn can't deliver that then he needs to make some drastic changes, he needs to find a core group of players he can trust to put a shift in and play as instructed and build from there. Right now I'd say that group is Tuanzebe, Grealish, McGinn and Abraham. I'd struggle to put anyone else in it to be honest.

The summer is huge for the club as a whole and for Smith particularly. All the optimism of the new owners getting things going in the right direction is evaporating, there is something very deeply wrong here. You can't say Smith isn't a good coach because look how he got the same players playing for 2 months, you can't say it's the board as they've been doing everything they can, saved us from financial ruin, made some good appointments. A lot of it has to be the playing staff then, and a lot of them will be going in the summer. 

It's looking grim but I think the board and Smith have to stick to their principles and get us through to the summer without completely falling to pieces and then take the opportunity to do some major surgery to the squad. 

I am not trying be smug, when i say anyone watching the game should study individuals and see that they are the problem......when players give instances when the basics are missing, they have form collapses, they are brittle. In those instances, you are not going to get promotion with that type of character.

[villalad21]

Overreacting? Eh, no.

You're missing the point. I don't mind losing games as long as the players give their all. Sometime you just face a team with better players and can't win even how hard you work but that was not the case yesterday.

The players couldn't be bothered and Wigan wanted it more than us and outran us, that should never happen and is unacceptable. It's not the fact that we lost but the way we lost that got me over the edge.

[hippo]

56 minutes ago, Tomsub said:

Interesting and worrying stats over the last two matches:

                                   AV    Opp

Shots                        14      27

Shots on target         2      13

Goals                          0        6

Wow - two shots on target in the last 180 mins of football!

Not his fault.

[hippo]

25 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said:

I think that we need to accept where we are as a team and club.

It was never going to be rosy when Smith got the job hard work is never easy.  Whoever thought that it would be are naive football fans.

I am accepting that this is a long term project where we need to believe in what our manager is trying to achieve.

If he is here for two seasons and we have not been promoted BUT we have a clear identity then I will still support him.

We do not have an honest bunch of players they do not work hard which is why we are inconsistent.  They think that talent alone will win them games when that is not the case.

Teams like Brighton, Huddersfield & Cardiff were not a talented side nor did they have big name players and look where they are.

The fans that want DS to be sacked and every other new manager that arrives after a few months to be sacked will never see this club succeed if they get what they want.

 

How we will know when we have a clear identity or not ? 

[Reivax_Villa]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

How we will know when we have a clear identity or not ? 

I thought hippos had good eyesight..

[sne]

Time and time again it's our more senior players that are letting us down, time and time again they are picked again the following games.

Really hoped we'd see an end to this when Smith came in, so far we have not.

But there is still time.

Sick to death of seeing Hutton, Taylor, Elmo, Adomah, Whelan... put in 5/10 performances sprinkled with a big mistake or two.

Let someone else have a go at messing up. It was hilarious to see Hause flop around on the pitch yesterday, but you have to start somewhere.

And I'm sure he will get better with more game time. (He certainly can't get any worse  ) 

Green, O'Hare, Clark... might not be quite ready, but at least they'll have desire, fresh legs and room to  learn.

 

Edit: Come to think about it, it kinda irks me a bit that he was willing to throw in an on loan youngster from another team who's only been at the club for a few days and who's hardly played football for a season and a half straight away, but our still hardly hasn't featured.

Edited January 13, 2019 by sne

[hippo]

1 minute ago, Reivax_Villa said:

I thought hippos had good eyesight..

I do - but can't say I have come away from a match thinking "You know what weve got a clear identity"  - I have seen some great villa teams - plenty of average and poor ones - I am not sure I can recall any with a clear identity 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Having had some time to reflect on what I witnessed yesterday I think had you have seen yesterdays game, and in fairness the 3-4 games previous, you would never have known that was a Dean Smith managed team.

I see his teams as pressing high up the pitch, closing the opposition down, playing on the front foot, quick passing and movement and pushing plenty of players forward creating chances. I also see Dean Smiths sides as likely to be very open defensively. Since the WBA game we have maintained the being open defensively but the rest has gradually gotten worse to the point yesterday it was non existent.

I can't accept the argument that the players simply can't play his way. They showed from pretty much the moment he came in until full time against West Brom five weeks ago that they can play the way he wants us to very well. In fairness though regardless of any quality/ability you have on the ball any footballer should be capable of closing down and pressing high up the pitch if told to which are fundamentals of the way Smith plays.

Something seems to be seriously amiss here. We have gone from the performances against Boro, Derby, WBA, Sha and even in defeat at QPR where we were very good to lack lustre pretty much clueless crap served up yesterday, last week and to a lesser extent against QPR, Preston and Swansea (A).

It is pretty rare you get such a turnaround from one extreme to another and a period of playing some cracking stuff to then a period of serving up some dire crap. I have said before Grealish is a huge miss as I think he sets the tone and pace of the way we play and makes the whole team tick but we should not have fallen apart the way we have because one man has been out. We should have been capable of adapting our game to at least in part make up for his loss.

I don't have the answers and I am not sure the manager has at this point. You'd imagine he is saying the same things now as he was during our excellent run and if that is the case the players simply aren't now implementing what he is telling them. I think where Smith is culpable is that he is setting us up so as to allow teams acres of space in wide areas and he has to address that as we are being targeted out wide game after game now. 

This season can't just be allowed to drift along now. I think top 6 is unlikely but certainly not impossible. At the very least over the next 19 games though I want to see much more of what we saw in his first two months here and not the last month. We have seen even with what some consider not a great squad what Smith is capable of getting out of them and we have to get back to those levels.  It may also be the time to see the complete phasing out of Whelan, Thor, Adomah, Hutton, Taylor and lets give a run to the likes of O'Hare, Bree, Hause and Doyle Hayes. Maybe send Bolasie back if possible and bring Green back.

What can't be allowed to happen is for us to continue to see more of the tripe we have in the last few games with the same players as then we will go back to a toxic atmosphere at games and who knows where that will take us and Smith.

Mark, i am like you, i do not have the answers, but i am sure some of the things i see are contributory factors to this demise.....this has been coming imo, due to basic disciplines being abandoned.

2 games for examples....Blues & Forest, I have picked them out specifically, because we never lost......you could play those 2 games back and the tell tale signs were on display. Shocking displays of standing off and relinquishing initiative.....sure we had moments of brilliance and thats whats masking our problems.

I don't blame Dean Smith.....and I think. Bruce was let down too, but bruce did have over 2 years to correct it.

I did not see the game yesterday, but I could have choreographed that with no trouble.

as just one example.....Liam Rosenoir highlighte a corner where Albert was in attendance at the far post...the cross came in and broke to nothing, the ball finding its way up field to the by line.....Albert glued to the ball like a dog on heat with a bitch, drifted across the park in to no mans land.....the ball came in to the far post....No Albert, free header, second goal.

Its this kind of defensive indiscipline that is killing us.....Dean needs to send them out with little shopping lists of instructions and positions to take up off the ball, so they can refer to during a game.."......dim wits.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Having had some time to reflect on what I witnessed yesterday I think had you have seen yesterdays game, and in fairness the 3-4 games previous, you would never have known that was a Dean Smith managed team.

I see his teams as pressing high up the pitch, closing the opposition down, playing on the front foot, quick passing and movement and pushing plenty of players forward creating chances. I also see Dean Smiths sides as likely to be very open defensively. Since the WBA game we have maintained the being open defensively but the rest has gradually gotten worse to the point yesterday it was non existent.

I can't accept the argument that the players simply can't play his way. They showed from pretty much the moment he came in until full time against West Brom five weeks ago that they can play the way he wants us to very well. In fairness though regardless of any quality/ability you have on the ball any footballer should be capable of closing down and pressing high up the pitch if told to which are fundamentals of the way Smith plays.

Something seems to be seriously amiss here. We have gone from the performances against Boro, Derby, WBA, Sha and even in defeat at QPR where we were very good to lack lustre pretty much clueless crap served up yesterday, last week and to a lesser extent against QPR, Preston and Swansea (A).

It is pretty rare you get such a turnaround from one extreme to another and a period of playing some cracking stuff to then a period of serving up some dire crap. I have said before Grealish is a huge miss as I think he sets the tone and pace of the way we play and makes the whole team tick but we should not have fallen apart the way we have because one man has been out. We should have been capable of adapting our game to at least in part make up for his loss.

I don't have the answers and I am not sure the manager has at this point. You'd imagine he is saying the same things now as he was during our excellent run and if that is the case the players simply aren't now implementing what he is telling them. I think where Smith is culpable is that he is setting us up so as to allow teams acres of space in wide areas and he has to address that as we are being targeted out wide game after game now. 

This season can't just be allowed to drift along now. I think top 6 is unlikely but certainly not impossible. At the very least over the next 19 games though I want to see much more of what we saw in his first two months here and not the last month. We have seen even with what some consider not a great squad what Smith is capable of getting out of them and we have to get back to those levels.  It may also be the time to see the complete phasing out of Whelan, Thor, Adomah, Hutton, Taylor and lets give a run to the likes of O'Hare, Bree, Hause and Doyle Hayes. Maybe send Bolasie back if possible and bring Green back.

What can't be allowed to happen is for us to continue to see more of the tripe we have in the last few games with the same players as then we will go back to a toxic atmosphere at games and who knows where that will take us and Smith.

Mark, i am like you, i do not have the answers, but i am sure some of the things i see are contributory factors to this demise.....this has been coming imo, due to basic disciplines being abandoned.

2 games for examples....Blues & Forest, I have picked them out specifically, because we never lost......you could play those 2 games back and the tell tale signs were on display. Shocking displays of standing off and relinquishing initiative.....sure we had moments of brilliance and thats whats masking our problems.

I don't blame Dean Smith.....and I think. Bruce was let down too, but bruce did have over 2 years to correct it.

I did not see the game yesterday, but I could have choreographed that with no trouble.

as just one example.....Liam Rosenoir highlighte a corner where Albert was in attendance at the far post...the cross came in and broke to nothing, the ball finding its way up field to the by line.....Albert glued to the ball like a dog on heat with a bitch, drifted across the park in to no mans land.....the ball came in to the far post....No Albert, free header, second goal.

Its this kind of defensive indiscipline that is killing us.....Dean needs to send them out with little shopping lists of instructions and positions to take up off the ball, so they can refer to during a game.."......dim wits.

[screwdriver]

The problem Smith has is...

we have a big squad in numbers who are all on an absolute wedge. People like Lansbury and Hogan who never play are bringing home the bacon in terms of serious cash in the breifcase.

Football is a results business. Smith isn't going to risk his job putting in the youngsters in the team whilst he has pro's on 30k+ a week.

 

If we lose 3-0 with 7 youngsters in the team Smith is going to get his arse cheeks parted dry by the owners. The conversation will be a bit like this:

 

Edens: "what the hell are you doing, picking kids?"

Smith "The first team are lazy bastards who don't want to play for me so I chucked the kids in"

Edens "It's your job to get the first team running.. playing for you"

Smith "they're crap"

Edens "Its your job to polish those turds"

Smith " Di Matteo couldn't Brucio couldn't and I can't"

Edens "Get out of here bushbrows you're fired"

 

The cycle continues. New manager comes in, Neil Taylor looks like Roberto Carlos for 3 games, then back to this endless purgatory we have been banished to.

 

and to all the champ manager fans in the match threads who say sell Whelan now! it's impossible to sell a guy well over 30 who is earning an absolute wedge. No one on earth will take him. You can't even give them away look at McCorrmack and Micah Richards!

If you watch the sunderland documentary on netflix and chill. you'll see they are exactly the same with píss takers like Rodwell and O'Shea

 

 

[hippo]

12 minutes ago, screwdriver said:

The problem Smith has is...

we have a big squad in numbers who are all on an absolute wedge. People like Lansbury and Hogan who never play are bringing home the bacon in terms of serious cash in the breifcase.

Football is a results business. Smith isn't going to risk his job putting in the youngsters in the team whilst he has pro's on 30k+ a week.

 

If we lose 3-0 with 7 youngsters in the team Smith is going to get his arse cheeks parted dry by the owners. The conversation will be a bit like this:

 

Edens: "what the hell are you doing, picking kids?"

Smith "The first team are lazy bastards who don't want to play for me so I chucked the kids in"

Edens "It's your job to get the first team running.. playing for you"

Smith "they're crap"

Edens "Its your job to polish those turds"

Smith " Di Matteo couldn't Brucio couldn't and I can't"

Edens "Get out of here bushbrows you're fired"

 

The cycle continues. New manager comes in, Neil Taylor looks like Roberto Carlos for 3 games, then back to this endless purgatory we have been banished to.

 

and to all the champ manager fans in the match threads who say sell Whelan now! it's impossible to sell a guy well over 30 who is earning an absolute wedge. No one on earth will take him. You can't even give them away look at McCorrmack and Micah Richards!

If you watch the sunderland documentary on netflix and chill. you'll see they are exactly the same with píss takers like Rodwell and O'Shea

 

 

To be fair to DS if he had confidence in the u23's I am sure he would play them. But like managers before him I don't think he see's much there.

[screwdriver]

I think if O'Hare had been given a run in the team he would deliver. I've seen those flashes of skill.

The so called "step up" from under 23 to first team champ is an imaginary one.

In reality the difference will be nothing physical or skillfull for him to deal with...more so the mental side,  dirty old pro's like wigans gary roberts giving him the verbals. telling him he's going to bum him in the showers after the game.

Will the young boys cope with being roughed up by these angry 30 year old pro's who are resentful that they didn't make the big time?

mind you if they survived the kevin mcdonald treatment nothing should faze them.

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, screwdriver said:

The problem Smith has is...

we have a big squad in numbers who are all on an absolute wedge. People like Lansbury and Hogan who never play are bringing home the bacon in terms of serious cash in the breifcase.

Football is a results business. Smith isn't going to risk his job putting in the youngsters in the team whilst he has pro's on 30k+ a week.

 

If we lose 3-0 with 7 youngsters in the team Smith is going to get his arse cheeks parted dry by the owners. The conversation will be a bit like this:

 

Edens: "what the hell are you doing, picking kids?"

Smith "The first team are lazy bastards who don't want to play for me so I chucked the kids in"

Edens "It's your job to get the first team running.. playing for you"

Smith "they're crap"

Edens "Its your job to polish those turds"

Smith " Di Matteo couldn't Brucio couldn't and I can't"

Edens "Get out of here bushbrows you're fired"

 

The cycle continues. New manager comes in, Neil Taylor looks like Roberto Carlos for 3 games, then back to this endless purgatory we have been banished to.

 

and to all the champ manager fans in the match threads who say sell Whelan now! it's impossible to sell a guy well over 30 who is earning an absolute wedge. No one on earth will take him. You can't even give them away look at McCorrmack and Micah Richards!

If you watch the sunderland documentary on netflix and chill. you'll see they are exactly the same with píss takers like Rodwell and O'Shea

 

 

Big Club syndrome.....both.

We need to wake up then.

maybe we should refocus.....talent cannot be dismissed, but we should go for workers and characters first.

[TRO]

56 minutes ago, hippo said:

How we will know when we have a clear identity or not ? 

When the opposition stop scoring at the drop of a hat.

[screwdriver]

Smith has had the chance to put some credit in the bank and chuck in a youngster when grealish was injured he could of given O'Hare a run in the team. Even just 60 mins for 5 consecutive games.

This would have :

 

 a) bloodied a talented youth      b)lovedby the fans another brummy in the team and a manager not afraid to utilize the youth set up             c)enabled us to keep the same style of play and shape

However he flapped it.

Played him at swansea surrounded by a load of stiffs.

Then hauled him off and had a pop at the fans....rememeber "I know what this places is like when your losing i thought I'd take him off to protect him"

That pissed me off