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15 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its very early days to say that.....but yes I see similar traits, even if the football Dean alludes to is more entertaining, normally.

The traits I refer to is not tactics, but Individual traits of their play....lack of basics in some.

If, if what a previous poster wrote, that Dean give them a bollocking at Half time against Leeds then I am 110 % behind Dean Smith and I think we have hope... because if they thought their play was ok, we do have a problem....thankfully Dean seen different.

The fact that we went on to lose 2-3 ( after the bollocking)shows what a shallow bunch of no hopers we have or snakes, depending how you want to interpret it.

 

Fair enough, despite being somewhat at odds with you in the promotion thread, I’m more understanding and accepting of your viewpoint if it’s a case of you’re seeing similarities from the previous tenure and you’re keen to avoid that.

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27 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Fair enough, despite being somewhat at odds with you in the promotion thread, I’m more understanding and accepting of your viewpoint if it’s a case of you’re seeing similarities from the previous tenure and you’re keen to avoid that.

Its not a case of being keen to avoid the subject....Its more to do with looking to the future.

when any of us comment on a manager, its difficult to say they are good or bad at everything....so when you make your point it gets distorted by someone who has their agenda.

I never liked Bruce's football....but appreciated the ability to some degree to keep the wheels on during a game....He was like the curates egg for me good in parts.

some fans say its not about results its about the spectacle....where are they now when we are losing back to back 3-0's....its garbage.

Football without results is soon tiresome....so can results without the entertaining factor, but its a bit more bearable.

We all lose games for a reason and usually its because we can't do the simple things....its rare a reverse pass or a rabona going wrong has caused us to lose a game.

just remember those famous football words....." you have to WIN the RIGHT to play football.....never a truer word said.....We never do that.....and while there are many deficits to our game.....That is the main one for me.

 

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Over the years we have sack managers in october.  Well is it not just bad timing?  Why should we not sack hopeless manager in march/april, and give the new manager time to build up next season.

If we sack in october the new manager has the current player and cannot sell or buy new one.  Sherwood, Matteo and Bruce got sacked in october.  Well Remi Garde was problably special case.

I am not sure sacking Smith is a solution for the moment.  But if we sack him we should do it in april. 

If we will give him a chance, than we should give him next season and make a decision april 2020 will we keep him or not.

In long run, we should go to europe seeking for a manager.

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2 hours ago, thunderball said:

Our squad is a shambles

Yea 2 months ago everyone said we had the best squad in the league and now our squad is suddenly s***.

Villatalk is so inconsistent it's embarrassing. At least stick to your opinion

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17 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its very early days to say that.....but yes I see similar traits, even if the football Dean alludes to is more entertaining, normally.

The traits I refer to is not tactics, but Individual traits of their play....lack of basics in some.

If, if what a previous poster wrote, that Dean give them a bollocking at Half time against Leeds then I am 110 % behind Dean Smith and I think we have hope... because if they thought their play was ok, we do have a problem....thankfully Dean seen different.

The fact that we went on to lose 2-3 ( after the bollocking)shows what a shallow bunch of no hopers we have or snakes, depending how you want to interpret it.

 

I totally agree with your prior astute assessments regards desire and energy off the ball. There is a distinct lack of fight in individual battles (bar McGinn), most concerning in the middle of the park but just as much out wide. Just look Wigan’s opening goal, pathetic by Taylor to be beaten so easily and the lack of desire and awareness of both BB or Hourihane to read the danger and close down the shooter. This is without considering the pattern of the game. Constantly conceding the initiative, due to lower work-rate, energy and a level tenaciousness than Wigan.

It feels like the basics are lacking to be build upon. You have to compete before you can start building the more technical aspects on top. It’s manifested by City and Liverpool (Leeds in this division), they earn the right to play as they do. I still think that we don’t have the players to do this consistently, especially with the injuries. So I do think it’s about recruitment. I do think Smiths sees this and hope he acts to resolve it. Although, I thought Bruce would remedy this, and his issue would be building upon that foundation.

What I will say about Smith, is that I am a little concerned about the tactical inflexibility seemingly shown so far. We are far to reliant on playing to a wide player early and hoping his individual brilliance can beat his oppponent, it’s happening and breaking down far to often and is to easy to defend against. However, this is secondary to the fight and desire off the ball. I will hold real judgement though until he has a preseason and his own recruits in. He will get next season for me to prove his worth, barring a complete meltdown this season (relegation battle).

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4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Yea 2 months ago everyone said we had the best squad in the league and now our squad is suddenly s***.

Villatalk is so inconsistant it's embarrassing. At least stick to your opinion

I don't think I have ever changed my opinion on the squad....Its not so much poor as imbalanced.

Any manager has a difficulty changing anything, because too many have the same attributes.

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1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Yea 2 months ago everyone said we had the best squad in the league and now our squad is suddenly s***.

Villatalk is so inconsistant it's embarrassing. At least stick to your opinion

"Everyone" never said that. It was clear we had a weak defence.

Smith talks a good game and now it's time to see if he can pull it together with the pressure that being  Villa  managers piles on managers. I was disappointed he started with Elgahzi and Bolahsi today , he needs to change his approach to games to mitigate Grealish being out. Having show pony's on the pitch isn't working, the midfield is to weak to carry them losing the ball and not pulling their weight in defence and not producing when their im good positions up front 

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7 minutes ago, GENTLEMAN said:

I totally agree with your prior astute assessments regards desire and energy off the ball. There is a distinct lack of fight in individual battles (bar McGinn), most concerning in the middle of the park but just as much out wide. Just look Wigan’s opening goal, pathetic by Taylor to be beaten so easily and the lack of desire and awareness of both BB or Hourihane to read the danger and close down the shooter. This is without considering the pattern of the game. Constantly conceding the initiative, due to lower work-rate, energy and a level tenaciousness than Wigan.

It feels like the basics are lacking to be build upon. You have to compete before you can start building the more technical aspects on top. It’s manifested by City and Liverpool (Leeds in this division), they earn the right to play as they do. I still think that we don’t have the players to do this consistently, especially with the injuries. So I do think it’s about recruitment. I do think Smiths sees this and hope he acts to resolve it. Although, I thought Bruce would remedy this, and his issue would be building upon that foundation.

What I will say about Smith, is that I am a little concerned about the tactical inflexibility seemingly shown so far. We are far to reliant on playing to a wide player early and hoping his individual brilliance can beat his oppponent, it’s happening and breaking down far to often and is to easy to defend against. However, this is secondary to the fight and desire off the ball. I will hold real judgement though until he has a preseason and his own recruits in. He will get next season for me to prove his worth, barring a complete meltdown this season (relegation battle).

very good post.

just something to chew on:

Brian Clough On Football Tactics

  • “Players lose you games, not tactics....There is so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win a game of Dominoes”

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3 minutes ago, tinker said:

"Everyone" never said that. It was clear we had a weak defence.

Smith talks a good game and now it's time to see if he can pull it together with the pressure that being  Villa  managers piles on managers. I was disappointed he started with Elgahzi and Bolahsi today , he needs to change his approach to games to mitigate Grealish being out. Having show pony's on the pitch isn't working, the midfield is to weak to carry them losing the ball and not pulling their weight in defence and not producing when their im good positions up front 

Well then we should adjust our expectations and not expect top 6 in the first place.

Defence is a vital part and the foundation of any football team.

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6 minutes ago, tinker said:

"Everyone" never said that. It was clear we had a weak defence.

Smith talks a good game and now it's time to see if he can pull it together with the pressure that being  Villa  managers piles on managers. I was disappointed he started with Elgahzi and Bolahsi today , he needs to change his approach to games to mitigate Grealish being out. Having show pony's on the pitch isn't working, the midfield is to weak to carry them losing the ball and not pulling their weight in defence and not producing when their im good positions up front 

I think you are right.

Good players....but good players without the ball are questionable.

We have to go back to basics, and tighten up.... they are too much of a luxury right now as much as I like both.

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1 hour ago, screwdriver said:

If any player thinks they're gonna come in after throwing away a 2-0 lead and get a "never mind boys unlucky" and not get a bollocking they're in dream world.

However it doesn't suprise me.

 

The bollocking was given at HT ...when were 2-0 up. 

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2 hours ago, hippo said:

Actually I look to Watford and Leeds who seem to change managers every few months until they get it right. They seem to do better by making a change when things go wrong - rather than hoping the current incumbent comes good.

And how long were they in the championship?  You mean keep changing until we stumble on the right blend.

Again, you have been against Smith since the start so I feel your view is prejudiced

 

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1 minute ago, TRO said:

very good post.

just something to chew on:

Brian Clough On Football Tactics

  • “Players lose you games, not tactics....There is so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win a game of Dominoes”

Of course, players and individuals fight for right to allow tatics to have an effect. It’s the foundation, the cake if you like. Tatics are the icing and the cherry on top, players in the right positions to hurt or nulify the opposition. However it means nought if the individual players constantly lose their battles. The best teams do both. Bielsa yesterday converted to 3 at the back after Derby when 2 up front, in order to have a spare CB. However, this wouldn’t have made a jot of difference if his players didn’t fight in every phase of play. You need the foundation first then build upon it. 

I should clarify, I was perhaps being a little presumptuous and thinking ahead. I was analysing with the hope that Smith can introduce this desire and energy, and beyond that build upon it. I still believe he can implement a successful style with the right recruitment. Perhaps it’ll only take a few individuals, a good mentality is contagious. 

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5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

That was my first away game this season and I couldn't have picked a worse one could I. That performance was up there with as bad as I have witnessed which given the tripe served up the last few years took some doing.

Lack of effort and lack of a game plan from us and up against a side who once again knew exactly how to exploit us defensively by targeting wide areas, where we again gave an opposing side acres of space, did for us. It isn't just down to personnel as I have said before it doesn't matter who we play at full back they get left exposed and have little help from the wide midfielder in front of them and often end playing way too narrow.

I don't know exactly what has happened since the West Brom game.  Up until that game pretty much from the moment Smith came in we had been playing with high intensity, pressing teams high up the pitch, closing down and when in possession moving the ball quickly, attacking in numbers, creating chance after chance and really pinning teams back. I know since WBA we have lost Grealish but that is no reason for the whole way we play to have gone to pot.

I don't think players that had been playing as well as I have seen us play in years have suddenly become bad players but something is certainly not right.

I'd imagine this is now as tough a test as Smith has ever had as a manager as from what he has said and we have all seen he knows that this squad is capable of way better than we are currently seeing. I also doubt that is saying or dong too much different from what he was 4-5 weeks ago but performances are like day and night.

I am loathe to put too much on him though. This isn't his squad and until it is whilst not getting a free hand he has to be given plenty of slack. It may be that we again have to write another season off and use what remains of it putting foundations in place to build on next season.

They may not be bad players Mark....but they are players playing badly.

I think it is speculative to blame anyone....but when a player regularly miscontrols a ball and ends up clearing it to safety in desperation, action does have to be taken.When players without the ball look like spare ***** at a wedding its time for alarm bells to ring.

even academy players could lose 3-0.

Lack of effort in football is the ultimate sin and it should be rooted out....when you say it isn't just down to personnel, I think a huge part of it is.

I don't profess to know the answer to our woes, but the dramatic shift in performances and results is worrying.

as I have said in earlier posts, this has been coming and things usually get bad in football when the tell tale signs are not acted upon....I hope the board help him address the issues, further.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

majority of this squad was top six last year pushing on for promotion. 

Still time keep cool don’t panic🙏🙏🙏🙏

Terry, Johnstone, Snodgrass...all strong Characters and in charge of their own game.

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