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Dean Smith


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1 hour ago, Steero113 said:

You wouldn't have had to mention the date and I would have known you were referring to the 80's just because the Brum mail were reporting actual news and not total **** bollocks. 

Halcyon days, now long gone and undoubtedly never to return. 

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3 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

I’m glad that you support Dean but (16/38)*100 = 42%

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yes it is, but I understand that those who are more proficient at this than me us the 7 draws as 7x 0.5= 3.5 +16= (19.5/38)*100=51%

I am not sure which is correct, but it seems some calcs inc the draws as half a win.

so I will enhance Deans performance, if I can.

I guess it doesn't matter, if all the calcs are the same format...it's as long as it is short.

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, TRO said:

yes it is, but I understand that those who are more proficient at this than me us the 7 draws as 7x 0.5= 3.5 +16= (19.5/38)*100=51%

I am not sure which is correct, but it seems some calcs inc the draws as half a win.

so I will enhance Deans performance, if I can.

I guess it doesn't matter, if all the calcs are the same format...it's as long as it is short.

Makes no sense.

Two managers get a 50% win ratio, one is relegated and one gets an European place…..how you say?

Manager A gets 38 draws, 38 at 0.5 = 50% win ratio, but gets 38 points and unfortunately just gets relegated.

Manager B wins 19 games, loses 19 games, 19 at 1.0 = 50% win ratio, but gets 57 points and sneaks a European place.

Draws can’t be half a point, it doesn’t make sense.

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The logical calculation ... irrespective of how the win ratio is defined is: (wins + draws/3)/38 * 100 %
So 16 wins and seven draws the ratio is (16 + 7/3)/38 = 48 %

So say a club has 38 draws that is is only 38 points ... not completely clear of relegation.

A club has 19 wins and no draws that is 57 points. 
Draws suck points of the league tables.

Edited by fruitvilla
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Just now, fruitvilla said:

The logical calculation ... irrespective of how the win ratio is defined is: (wins + draws/3)/38 * 100 %
So 16 wins and seven draws the ratio is (16 + 7/3)/38 = 48 %

So say a club has 38 draws that is is only 38 points ... not completely clear of relegation.

A club has 19 wins and no draws that is 57 points. 
Draws suck points of of the league tables.

What’s the point though? Why not just compare point totals.  It’s just a stat that tells you virtually the same thing as points.  We know there is 114 points available and 57 were attained, just do a % off that…same thing.

Also it shouldn’t be called win ratio then, it should be something like performance ratio because a draw isn’t a win is it

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13 minutes ago, nick76 said:

What’s the point though? Why not just compare point totals.  It’s just a stat that tells you virtually the same thing as points.

Yes for a given league at a given time, this is absolutely true. But comparing say Dean in the premier cf the championship then The "win ratio" may be more appropriate. Or comparing Villa 1980 versus 1981. I am not disagreeing here ... but a normalized ratio is not a bad thing.

18 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Also it shouldn’t be called win ratio then, it should be something like performance ratio because a draw isn’t a win is it

Again don't disagree here ... but I am not overly worried, so long as I understand the intent of the poster. Today a draw is worth a third of a win. Prior to 1980 it was worth a half a win. This was supposedly to reduce the number of draws or defensive play. It certainly has not done so over the long run.

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18 minutes ago, YLN said:

My word the mathematical gymnastics in this thread.

This is like the time someone thought Bezos could give every person on earth a billion euro and still have over 170 billion left over. Because he subracted 7 billion (population on earth) from Bezos' wealth.

Should people be allowed to vote?

Sometimes I think some people shouldn’t even be allowed to leave their house nevermind vote! 😂

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1 hour ago, YLN said:

My word the mathematical gymnastics in this thread.

This is like the time someone thought Bezos could give every person on earth a billion euro and still have over 170 billion left over. Because he subracted 7 billion (population on earth) from Bezos' wealth.

Should people be allowed to vote?

My favorite part of that viral meme were the confident comments of disgust.

 

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On 06/09/2021 at 21:45, nick76 said:

Makes no sense.

Two managers get a 50% win ratio, one is relegated and one gets an European place…..how you say?

Manager A gets 38 draws, 38 at 0.5 = 50% win ratio, but gets 38 points and unfortunately just gets relegated.

Manager B wins 19 games, loses 19 games, 19 at 1.0 = 50% win ratio, but gets 57 points and sneaks a European place.

Draws can’t be half a point, it doesn’t make sense.

I get your point Nick, but it is explained in many sources inc Wikipedia, so I assume it's a commonly accepted maxim.

your examples are of an extreme nature not necessarily repeatable, so most unlikely....but never the less cannot be dismissed.

but I guess, its all about comparisons and as long as all the teams in the league are calculated the same, the measurement is fair....I would hazard a guess, without labouring the point, in the main the best managers have the optimum win ratio's....but I accept your reasoning that is not a measurement to have your life decided by or in fact pay too much credence to , without considering other criteria.

It seems many folk use it, but I accept it has its flaws.

PS I guess if a duff tape measure is used in the long jump as long as its used for all jumpers, you get the same result.

Edited by TRO
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On 06/09/2021 at 22:02, nick76 said:

What’s the point though? Why not just compare point totals.  It’s just a stat that tells you virtually the same thing as points.  We know there is 114 points available and 57 were attained, just do a % off that…same thing.

Also it shouldn’t be called win ratio then, it should be something like performance ratio because a draw isn’t a win is it

so why is it a popular metric?

why?, indeed not just compare points totals....but it seems win ratio's are used in many data based mediums.....why?, I don't know.

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5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I get your point Nick, but it is explained in many sources inc Wikipedia, so I assume it's a commonly accepted maxim.

your examples are of an extreme nature not necessarily repeatable, so most unlikely....but never the less cannot be dismissed.

but I guess, its all about comparisons and as long as all the teams in the league are calculated the same, the measurement is fair....I would hazard a guess, without labouring the point, in the main the best managers have the optimum win ratio's....but I accept your reasoning that is not a measurement to have your life decided by or in fact pay too much credence to , without considering other criteria.

It seems many folk use it, but I accept it has its flaws.

stats/ratios can be created to show anything.  I work in the commercial finance world and I’ve seen some really daft ones in my time.  This is just another one, although non-work related that I put into that category and I’ve not seen in the mainstream. 

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2 minutes ago, TRO said:

so why is it a popular metric?

why?, indeed not just compare points totals....but it seems win ratio's are used in many data based mediums.....why?, I don't know.

No, my response was not about win ratios stat which is used. My response was about win ratios with draws included in some split.  Win ratios is a common metric but not win ratios with some fractional amount added for draws.

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4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

stats/ratios can be created to show anything.  I work in the commercial finance world and I’ve seen some really daft ones in my time.  This is just another one, although non-work related that I put into that category and I’ve not seen in the mainstream. 

I too used to work in a job that involved commercial Finance, but I was never a mathematician, so I accepted some things/calcs from people, better equipped than me( usually accountants)...as read.

I haven't created win ratio's or the formula for doing so....just picked it up from the internet as an indicator for measuring performance that many football Data bods use.

I guess its one of them......accept it as an attempt to measure performance or don't.

 

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11 minutes ago, nick76 said:

No, my response was not about win ratios stat which is used. My response was about win ratios with draws included in some split.  Win ratios is a common metric but not win ratios with some fractional amount added for draws.

Thats funny....because I used to do the same, until I saw someone( I assumed to be cleverer than me include draws, so I just went with it)

I agree with what you are saying, but I assumed, that I was not calculating Win ratio's correctly.....The draws bit was news to me,too, but hey ho.

 

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21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You'll be wishing this insane conversation was still going on when you see the reaction to the team sheet.

Yes, but it is kinda fun guessing who'll be first to suggest Dean be sacked for not switching to a back three or something similar

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1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

You'll be wishing this insane conversation was still going on when you see the reaction to the team sheet.

Whats the point if signing Buendia if he isnt playing. Smith Out

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