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Dean Smith


Demitri_C

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12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I dont think it's a bad thing as its better more intelligent football,

More intelligent football? That’s a cute way of putting it.  It’s not football, it’s done to achieve an outcome which is fine and closer to a winning result but it’s not pure football.  It’s intelligent to the point of gaining a result but it’s not intelligent football.

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2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

More intelligent football? That’s a cute way of putting it.  It’s not football, it’s done to achieve an outcome which is fine and closer to a winning result but it’s not pure football.  It’s intelligent to the point of gaining a result but it’s not intelligent football.

Disagree

Use grealish as the example rather than pogba because you might then see it in a different perspective 

He positions his body in a fashion that prevents the opponent from winning the ball, it is grealish's ball, he is using his body to protect it - The opponent cant stop himself from fouling him, he can not win the ball because of the intelligence of grealish but because of a lack of intelligence from the defender he will still try and it will result in a foul, it happens every week, 100+ times a season 

Best example would be grealish getting lamptey sent off in the Brighton game, what grealish does means that lampety can not win the ball, it's impossible but at the same time he knows lamptey will try, it's pure football intelligence, high from Jack low from lamptey, fans of every other team in the league labelled it a dive, it wasn't 

The amount of contact and then the drama of the fall is something else and I'm not saying that's not shit because it is, that's the balance that is missing 

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It's weird, Smith was right, there were some decisions that were baffling yesterday, but he's complained about the wrong ones.

The Pogba one is a penalty, he goes down easy, but it's a penalty, I'd expect our players to do the same and I'd expect a penalty.

The Watkins one is more complicated, a ref can give a penalty and be right and he can send Watkins off and be right, I'd normally expect the ref to wave play on and avoid that decision, he's got to be really sure in order to send Ollie off and I'm not sure it was clear enough for that - there was definite contact and Ollie was definitely on his way down before it arrived, but if there's contact, it's really, really harsh to send the player off.

What he didn't do was mention the really clear mistake which was the handball - and I'm not sure why. That's the one that he should have been banging on about I think. I wonder if the reason he spoke about the other two is in part to protect our players as much as highlight the refereeing performance.

Anyway, good shot boss, hole in wrong place.

 

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14 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's weird, Smith was right, there were some decisions that were baffling yesterday, but he's complained about the wrong ones.

The Pogba one is a penalty, he goes down easy, but it's a penalty, I'd expect our players to do the same and I'd expect a penalty.

The Watkins one is more complicated, a ref can give a penalty and be right and he can send Watkins off and be right, I'd normally expect the ref to wave play on and avoid that decision, he's got to be really sure in order to send Ollie off and I'm not sure it was clear enough for that - there was definite contact and Ollie was definitely on his way down before it arrived, but if there's contact, it's really, really harsh to send the player off.

What he didn't do was mention the really clear mistake which was the handball - and I'm not sure why. That's the one that he should have been banging on about I think. I wonder if the reason he spoke about the other two is in part to protect our players as much as highlight the refereeing performance.

Anyway, good shot boss, hole in wrong place.

 

Indeed. We never seem to talk about the right decisions. We need to be making a stink about these decisions in the media every time. The clear actionable ones not subjective. And then compare them to one's that went against us. Watkins going down should have compared it to Harry Kane jumping into cash. Greenwood Handball, handball against City etc.

 

There have been 4 or 5 games this season where a player has handball Ed it against us in a way that Influenced play and we haven't complained. West Ham ogbonna handballed it to Control the ball in the 94th minute no VAR check. Maguire clear handball in the previous manure game no hand ball. Etc. We should be making a **** stink every single time because the only way the refereeing is going to get changed is I'd the refs names are being put out there as match fixers which is what they are. 

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Will Dean get fined for questioning the refs and VARS decisions? I thought this wasn't allowed.

It's such a shame they're not held accountable for their decisions and explaining how they reached them. Would highlight the incredible (edit: forgot to use the right word...corrupt) inconsistency that Dean called out. 

Edited by MrBlack
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7 hours ago, villa4europe said:

What pogba did yesterday is something that Jack grealish is absolutely world class at

Line of the ball, he put his body across it, Luiz cannot win that ball without fouling him, it's impossible, he knows exactly what he's doing and what will happen, he completely outsmarted him

Grealish does that to the best players in the league, every game 

No complaints about their penalty from me 

Yes but i dont think Grealish has ever won us a penalty in the Premier League 

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21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Yes but i dont think Grealish has ever won us a penalty in the Premier League 

Its 2 crazy stats, I'm sure he was the player pre injury with the most touches of the ball in the opponents penalty area and he's also the most fouled player in the league... Yet he doesn't win that many penalties (he's won 1 vs West brom this season) 

I personally think its because grealish uses fouls as a tactic, slow the game down, relieve pressure or more likely the less he has one the more he wins and its very rare that he's in the opponents box with nothing on so he doesn't look to buy cheap fouls in the same way

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2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Its 2 crazy stats, I'm sure he was the player pre injury with the most touches of the ball in the opponents penalty area and he's also the most fouled player in the league... Yet he doesn't win that many penalties (he's won 1 vs West brom this season) 

I personally think its because grealish uses fouls as a tactic, slow the game down, relieve pressure or more likely the less he has one the more he wins and its very rare that he's in the opponents box with nothing on so he doesn't look to buy cheap fouls in the same way

Also because defenders take less risks trying to win the ball. His tactic of waiting for them to try and tackle doesn't work in the box. Which is why most penalties that are won are just collisions where the attacker has run into a defender who holds their ground. 

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14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's weird, Smith was right, there were some decisions that were baffling yesterday, but he's complained about the wrong ones.

The Pogba one is a penalty, he goes down easy, but it's a penalty, I'd expect our players to do the same and I'd expect a penalty.

The Watkins one is more complicated, a ref can give a penalty and be right and he can send Watkins off and be right, I'd normally expect the ref to wave play on and avoid that decision, he's got to be really sure in order to send Ollie off and I'm not sure it was clear enough for that - there was definite contact and Ollie was definitely on his way down before it arrived, but if there's contact, it's really, really harsh to send the player off.

What he didn't do was mention the really clear mistake which was the handball - and I'm not sure why. That's the one that he should have been banging on about I think. I wonder if the reason he spoke about the other two is in part to protect our players as much as highlight the refereeing performance.

Anyway, good shot boss, hole in wrong place.

 

What i would have said can the ref come out here and explain to me why we were not given a penalty for a blatent hand ball by mason Greenwood but the same thing happened against us marty cash vs city and it was a penalty?

Someone please answer that for me

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To add to that i realky annoyed by our players why didnt they go  crazy to the ref with the hand ball? City and united seem to do it and get all the decisons we need to start doing the same

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13 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Will Dean get fined for questioning the refs and VARS decisions? I thought this wasn't allowed.

It's such a shame they're not held accountable for their decisions and explaining how they reached them. Would highlight the incredible (edit: forgot to use the right word...corrupt) inconsistency that Dean called out. 

you only get fined if you really go in on them or question their integrity. if he said something about the ref being from manchester, that's the sort of thing you get done for

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13 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

you only get fined if you really go in on them or question their integrity. if he said something about the ref being from manchester, that's the sort of thing you get done for

I’d take the fine and conjecture that he’s as corrupt as a PS1 save game. Bent as a pretzel.

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8 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

What i would have said can the ref come out here and explain to me why we were not given a penalty for a blatent hand ball by mason Greenwood but the same thing happened against us marty cash vs city and it was a penalty?

Someone please answer that for me

Selective, officiating.

They will defend it by saying, thats what I saw.

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10 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

To add to that i realky annoyed by our players why didnt they go  crazy to the ref with the hand ball? City and united seem to do it and get all the decisons we need to start doing the same

If I remember rightly, the ball stayed in play for an unusually long time after the handball so they were rightly concentrating on the game.  They completed the VAR check well before we had a chance to see the replay on TV.  I do wonder if we had kicked the ball out of play whether it would have been referred to the ref to look at on the screen.  Not that I'd have expected anything out of that muppet.

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28 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

If I remember rightly, the ball stayed in play for an unusually long time after the handball so they were rightly concentrating on the game.  They completed the VAR check well before we had a chance to see the replay on TV.  I do wonder if we had kicked the ball out of play whether it would have been referred to the ref to look at on the screen.  Not that I'd have expected anything out of that muppet.

The same thing crossed my mind. If the ball had gone out sooner it would have been easier for the VAR to call the ref over for a look.

Similarly I wonder how many offsides are now not given because of the rule where the linesman isn’t putting his flag up until the move ends. Sometimes play seems to go on for a while when someone looked clearly offside and the attacking team then go on to win a corner with the offside flag never going up.

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Lost half our games in 2021, only Southampton and Sheffield United have shown worse form.

Conceded goals 8 games in a row, and i always felt that was inevitable. Martinez and the defence have been overworked and papered over some of the cracks. Keeping cleen shots due to heroic last ditch blocking and saves from Emi just isn't sustainable.

Our midfield are getting bypassed way too easily and they are giving no protection to our backline.

Lots we need to work on next season.

Edited by villalad21
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3 hours ago, gilbertoAVFC said:

Sorry but what is the point of playing Barkley??? Or even players who have done well this season but need a rest like McGinn or Luiz? Could just give a kid a run-out couldn't we...

I'm not going to moan too much, 4 points against Everton is very good this season, but like you, I question the value of points at this stage of the season compared to letting our youth get some minutes in a less risky way then throwing them in next season.

There's something to be said for ending on a high and putting as much distance between last season's finish and this season's as we can though

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