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Dean Smith


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7 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Yet the very last game by not making the sub being screamed out for in the match thread has gone on to collect us 3 points.
 

Does not making a sub that goes on to get you 3 points count as being pro-active or inactive? 

His record here is fantastic. Mid table championship - to mid table prem in less than 3 seasons.

It's the nature of football to always want more. Even under Ron Saunders there were quite a few seasons where we didn't seem to progressing, stuck around 8th .........but we didn't have the internet then ! 😅

I suppose at one stage this season we really looked the part, goals, clean sheets, jack and Martinez performing like god's. We've dipped from those lofty heights - but fans having tasted that want more.

I do wonder where we go from here - will the board back the purchase of £40m+ players to go into the first team ?  - or are they looking for the recruitment team to in earth gems for less than that. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Yet the very last game by not making the sub being screamed out for in the match thread has gone on to collect us 3 points.
 

Does not making a sub that goes on to get you 3 points count as being pro-active or inactive? 

This feels like post event rationalization.

Fans claim dean sub strategy inactive.

Dean didint made subs and won game

That means fans opinions invalid and hes actualy proactive.

Im sorry but thats not how it works.

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I find Dean's in game management and team selections frustrating at times.

But I don't think he should be replaced, I agree we have improved every season under him and I would love to see what would have happened without the Covid outbreak and injuries (i know we will always get injuries).

If we strengthen the squad in the summer I would hope we can find a better level of consistency next season so we don't have another long drop off in form and results. If we are still having the same conversations this time next season then we may have to concede there is a ceiling under Dean, but hopefully that won't be the case.

Depends on what money gets spent in the summer as pretty unclear what FFP rules now apply after Covid.

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3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

No. I like Smith. But the fact is his lack of willingness to be proactive in matches has cost us a lot of points. Ideally he continues to improve so we don't have to replace him but I imagine the start of next season will decide his fate.

He is deeply flawed as a manager and to not acknowledge that is ridiculous. 

I'm struggling to see how you can see Smith as a flawed manager but Ghazi not a flawed player. I would also say Ghazi is a way more flawed player than Smith is a manager.

What you said that I outlined in black goes for any player or anyone involved with Villa. Any player or anyone not doing there job at Villa that includes Ghazi who you have defended so much in the past where no one could say anything against him is replaceable. If improvement stops and deterioration begins in player or chief then we must upgrade or replace.

The point you have made here is it's your time to go if your not doing your duty which i find a surprise considering how much you have defended others when they have put in far less convincing displays than Smith.

Smith is a manager who does have his faults yes,I think he could play Youth some more than what he does, I also think we should rid ourselves of the 4-3-3 so we can have more of a dominant midfield. That being said despite my thoughts I do also think he's done a grand job from when he first came in to our current moment in time. 

I don't think Smith will be gone next season, I think he will remain firmly in the job so long as we're a premier team and improvements are happening.

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3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

He is deeply flawed as a manager and to not acknowledge that is ridiculous. 

I think it's this kind of language that I find particularly frustrating. 'Deeply flawed' in no way reflects the management style of DS in any objective way. Might be a useful exercise to wonder what constitutes a 'deeply flawed' manager, like a modern-day Mourinho, say, or the fans general opinion at every club Steve Bruce has managed over the last 15 seasons perhaps.

I'm sorry if you think not acknowledging your opinion is ridiculous, but it seems the emotion of a Match Thread clouds your judgement.

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4 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I'm struggling to see how you can see Smith as a flawed manager but Ghazi not a flawed player. I would also say Ghazi is a way more flawed player than Smith is a manager.

What you said that I outlined in black goes for any player or anyone involved with Villa. Any player or anyone not doing there job at Villa that includes Ghazi who you have defended so much in the past where no one could say anything against him is replaceable. If improvement stops and deterioration begins in player or chief then we must upgrade or replace.

The point you have made here is it's your time to go if your not doing your duty which i find a surprise considering how much you have defended others when they have put in far less convincing displays than Smith.

Smith is a manager who does have his faults yes,I think he could play Youth some more than what he does, I also think we should rid ourselves of the 4-3-3 so we can have more of a dominant midfield. That being said despite my thoughts I do also think he's done a grand job from when he first came in to our current moment in time. 

I don't think Smith will be gone next season, I think he will remain firmly in the job so long as we're a premier team and improvements are happening.

Again arguing in bad faith. I've never said el ghazi is not a flawed player. He is a deeply flawed player he is inconsistent and not always great. But he is good enough for where we are right now and good enough as a backup for where we want to be. All my posts in the summer transfer window are about signing a new LW. You can't turn the head coach into a backup though without replacing them.

Lying and misquoting like you always **** do. It is embarrassing arguing with you because it is like arguing with a 3 year old who makes bullshit up incessantly. 

Did I say anywhere he hasn't done well from when he first took over? But the fact is we could and should be better this season even without Jack. We have shown it in pretty mcub every game we played even without Jack what we could do if we actually tried to attack and play passing football and I'm almost certain the lack of willingness to attack isn't coming from our players. 

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1 minute ago, AvonVillain said:

I think it's this kind of language that I find particularly frustrating. 'Deeply flawed' in no way reflects the management style of DS in any objective way. Might be a useful exercise to wonder what constitutes a 'deeply flawed' manager, like a modern-day Mourinho, say, or the fans general opinion at every club Steve Bruce has managed over the last 15 seasons perhaps.

I'm sorry if you think not acknowledging your opinion is ridiculous, but it seems the emotion of a Match Thread clouds your judgement.

He is deeply flawed otherwise we wouldn't have only picked up 5 points from losing positions all season. That is a frankly embarrassing stat. Almost as impressive as the lack of points dropped from winning positions but Smith does not make positive changes to influence the game and make us succeed when we otherwise wouldn't. 

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40 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Yet the very last game by not making the sub being screamed out for in the match thread has gone on to collect us 3 points.
 

Does not making a sub that goes on to get you 3 points count as being pro-active or inactive? 

I didn't think el ghazi should come off. I thought barkley should. He had barely done anything for the 15 minutes prior. The lack of substitutes worked out for once but taking only 5 points from losing positions all season is just not good enough no matter which team you are. 

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24 minutes ago, hippo said:

I do wonder where we go from here - will the board back the purchase of £40m+ players to go into the first team ?  - or are they looking for the recruitment team to in earth gems for less than that

I’d think it will be a bit of both. We have some financial muscle but that is restricted somewhat by ffp. However our data analysis department seems to be forever growing and I believe that Wes is very much a fan of that approach. So you’d think that a large part of that will be focused on recruitment. 

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ive been listening to the ESLdebate, the frustration from fans of united and arsenal about the ownership and it struck me that were maybe overlooking one of the key benefits of Deano. As well as being a superb manager, hes one of us. He puts the fans opinion right into the ears of our owners, what other clubs can boast that.

This isnt Steve Bruce at Newcastle, this is a man that has stood on the terrace, who's only family have swept the terrace.

I know the pressure on premier league managers is huge, but this guy will know what it means to deliver success to our fan base and he will also know the weight of failure. If it doesnt work out for Deano, he'll still have to walk among us, look villa fans in the eye every day.

While im sure their are other more qualified managers that may even bring success a little quicker, i will take the late substitutions, the perceived favourites and the stubborness just to have someone protecting our club that actually cares about it.

 

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If you look at players from last season to this (not including new signings).

Most improved: Targett, Konsa (although he's been dodgy in recent games)
Small improvement: Mings (some errors but overall I think he has improved), El Ghazi (for goals at least)
Stayed the same (roughly): McGinn, Nakamba, Trez
Got very slightly worse: Luiz
Too little game time to judge: Davis, Hause
Went missing completely: Guilbert, Engels, Lord Lucan

Most signings though have all been a major success - so Dean gets some definite kudos for Ollie, Cash and Martinez improving the team. 

Traore has done ok also, although the jury is out on just how good he can be for us. Sanson, not enough games to judge.


 

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38 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

This feels like post event rationalization.

Fans claim dean sub strategy inactive.

Dean didint made subs and won game

That means fans opinions invalid and hes actualy proactive.

Im sorry but thats not how it works.

No not in the slightest, how can you have a moan up about subs and not being a good manager for not making subs and then when it goes in Deans favour that we then have to molly coddle those fans who are critical?

Are you telling me that had he not made a sub and lost the game that suddenly those that called for him to make a sub are now validated instead?

Sorry it doesn’t work that way.

Damned if you do damned if you don’t in this rhetoric. 

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1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Love to know what your like live at VP. Do you cheer them on at 2-0 down playing shite football, or do you go vent your frustration (not anger) like the other 38000 would do.

I try to get behind the team. Failing that I go for a beer. Can’t recall ever turning on Smith though.  
 

Anyway point of my post was that the match thread isn’t a place to gage peoples views on the manager. 

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14 minutes ago, bose said:

Saying DS is deeply flawed is ridiculous and devalues any point you have.

The guy clearly has his weaknesses but saying he is "deeply flawed! is just hyperbole.

yep i think we are all guilty of using very 'over the top/passionate' or even 'too definitive' language on these forums, all lacking a bit of context or tone (i do it all the time).

we Villa fans are a passionate bunch no doubt. 

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The subs thing is entirely a product of video games where you make 3 subs every game, virtually never keep a GK on the bench and mix up the formation regularly, and the games are designed to make you do that so it just seems crazy when managers don't do it irl. 

Sometimes subs win games, but most managers actually put their best team out on the day and trust those players to execute their game plan. Very few teams regularly make 3 subs before the 90th minute and you can watch teams making 2 subs after the 90th minute to waste time quite frequently. Subs are good to freshen up the team but the offset is that it will affect the flow of the team while they get up to the speed of the games. Not such a big deal when you're Man City and the likes, where your subs are £50m players, but when your subs are Nakamba, Ramsey, Hause etc unless a player is injured they are more likely to have a negative impact than a positive one. Despite that I'm sure that I read Pep uses one of the fewest number of subs in the league (although I could be wrong on that) 

The idea that a new manager is going to come in and them making more subs will suddenly transform us is completely comical. What do we think having Ramsey get 20 minutes instead of 10 is going to change our season? Or switching to 442 with Davis up front is going to magically get us more goals and wins despite it not being a formation anyone other than Burnley would regularly use. Smith doesn't use many subs and it's clearly working over the medium to long term, so maybe he's right and we're wrong? 

I can understand it in the heat of a game, I'm thinking about changes after about 20 minutes, but realistically no manager is doing that unless they've made a horrendous mistake in their team selection in the first place. 

 

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18 minutes ago, bose said:

Saying DS is deeply flawed is ridiculous and devalues any point you have.

The guy clearly has his weaknesses but saying he is "deeply flawed! is just hyperbole.

On the other had, saying he is a "legend" or similar (see above) is equally ludicrous.

This whole debate is too extreme on both sides.

He clearly has some strengths and has had a good season. No one is going to sack him.

However, he also has clear weaknesses and my worry is these are in areas which may hamper our progress as a PL team. 

But we need to see how he finishes this season and what progress we make next before those issues can seriously be weighed up.

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34 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

ive been listening to the ESLdebate, the frustration from fans of united and arsenal about the ownership and it struck me that were maybe overlooking one of the key benefits of Deano. As well as being a superb manager, hes one of us. He puts the fans opinion right into the ears of our owners, what other clubs can boast that.

This isnt Steve Bruce at Newcastle, this is a man that has stood on the terrace, who's only family have swept the terrace.

I know the pressure on premier league managers is huge, but this guy will know what it means to deliver success to our fan base and he will also know the weight of failure. If it doesnt work out for Deano, he'll still have to walk among us, look villa fans in the eye every day.

While im sure their are other more qualified managers that may even bring success a little quicker, i will take the late substitutions, the perceived favourites and the stubborness just to have someone protecting our club that actually cares about it.

 

Sorry, but this is a load on Bollox, especially the last bit

I will always want a manager who brings us success, I'm sure Smith is doing the job to the best of his ability, but if at any stage he reaches the ceiling of his ability, I will be more than happy for another manager to take the reigns, to bring us the success we desire.

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