Dean Smith

[thabucks]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

It depends who comes in, look at how Newcastle fans have reacted to Ashley for the last 15 years since they sacked Keegan. If we sacked Smith and brought in Gerrard would be a lot of anger towards the board

Definitely agree that to replace Smith with someone like Gerrard screams vanity project for me and serous questions would need asking. To replace him with someone like Ralf Rangnick would be risky indeed but one worth taking if they decided Smith has reached his limits IMO. 

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, thabucks said:

Definitely agree that to replace Smith with someone like Gerrard screams vanity project for me and serous questions would need asking. To replace him with someone like Ralf Rangnick would be risky indeed but one worth taking if they decided Smith has reached his limits IMO. 

Ralf Rangnick is 63 next month, has won 1 trophy in 36 years of management and has never actually managed in the Premier League. Would it be really that much of a step up on Smith long term since we would probably get 3 years at most from him before he retires or he walks out on the club

[thabucks]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Ralf Rangnick is 63 next month, has won 1 trophy in 36 years of management and has never actually managed in the Premier League. Would it be really that much of a step up on Smith long term since we would probably get 3 years at most from him before he retires or he walks out on the club

Rangnick is much like Bielsa in that their reputation proceeds their achievements. He is someone  I have coveted for years based on everything I’ve ever read about him. Just see what he has achieved with Leipzig is such a short period and the wider Red Bull football group. He is the god father of gegenpressing and I just feel would be a good fit for our squad and aspirations. He could be a total flop though due to his lack of knowledge of the Prem but I feel he would be a success whatever league he manages in personally. Stats do not always do coaches justice. Pochettino has won nothing as a manager of note but is considered an elite level manager. 
Appointing someone like Gerrard or Xabi Alonso whose managerial pedigree is questionable would be foolish IMO and would scream vanity project. Appointing  a manager with a track record of building sustainable success with a clear football ethos copied by countless managers and coaches would hold merit for me. Though not something I am actively calling for but also won’t be too fussed in he is replaced as I trust NSWE & Co to make the right decision at the right time.

[TheStagMan]

53 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

From the WBA match thread (apologies, unable to quote from there properly) -

 

“I hope Edens & Sawaris have got a shortlist of top quality managers waiting for interview.”

“He can learn his trade at Walsall. At Brentford. At Villa we need a top manager that can take us to the next level.”

“Smith needs to go. Stubborn Bruce V2”

“Replacing Smith would be my first move if I were NSWE.  I can't see any signs that he is learning, and have no confidence he can take us where we want to go”

“I just think Smith is out of his depth for where we want to go as a club. They should be keeping their eye out on possible available managers this summer imo - if there's a better candidate go for it.”

“The sooner Smith is out of this club the better!”

“The longer this goes on the more I think Smith has to go.”

“Still wanna defend smith after this?”

I believe each of those posts were from a separate poster, so 8 posts, 8 different members. That’s from one game, took me about 5 minutes to compile that. If I felt inclined I reckon I could find a lot more voices from other matches.

Now, I don’t think that you yourself have ever said you want Smith gone, but to suggest there isn’t a ready in waiting collective that are prepared to jump in and call for his head is completely wrong as demonstrated, because I don’t believe the above posts are of a “questioning the manager” nature. They are “he’s not the manager for us, he needs to go” in tone.

Thank you,  this was exactly the point I was going to make. It is the kind of rubbish that is highlighted above which gets people annoyed, it is unhelpful, over the top and downright ridiculous. 

By all means criticise Smith, but keep things in perspective.

Dean is a relatively young manager, and is doing well, he is far from the perfect manager, and far from complete, which is to be expected. He is still learning and developing and I hope he continues to do so with us. There will be some bumps and frustrations along the way, but I hope this is the start of a long and successful journey. The trajectory is good.

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, thabucks said:

Rangnick is much like Bielsa in that their reputation proceeds their achievements. He is someone  I have coveted for years based on everything I’ve ever read about him. Just see what he has achieved with Leipzig is such a short period and the wider Red Bull football group. He is the god father of gegenpressing and I just feel would be a good fit for our squad and aspirations. He could be a total flop though due to his lack of knowledge of the Prem but I feel he would be a success whatever league he manages in personally. Stats do not always do coaches justice. Pochettino has won nothing as a manager of note but is considered an elite level manager. 
Appointing someone like Gerrard or Xabi Alonso whose managerial pedigree is questionable would be foolish IMO and would scream vanity project. Appointing  a manager with a track record of building sustainable success with a clear football ethos copied by countless managers and coaches would hold merit for me. Though not something I am actively calling for but also won’t be too fussed in he is replaced as I trust NSWE & Co to make the right decision at the right time.

He has only managed 2 seasons in the last 10 years due to health issues when at Schalke, one in 2015/16 when he was in the 2nd division with by far the biggest budget and finished 2nd, he also did one season while RB waited for Nagelsmann

He is a director of football mainly at Leipzig and not a coach

[Phil Silvers]

1 hour ago, Adam2003 said:

I agree with you it’s the target but Liverpool, Everton and Arsenal are also all outside the top six and will be saying the same thing. Like it or not we are still playing catch-up on a few years advantage for them. There’s no room for failure or poor runs if you want to hit the top 6 - it is the highest level we have hit in 30-odd years - so it should be the target but if Pep came in tomorrow it would still be a big challenge.

Let’s hope we get the squad additions to give it a good go though!

 

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

I wouldn't. That's an unreasonable expectation for where we are as a squad and club right now IMO. 

I think its a reasonable target if we finish 9/10 this year, doubt our target will be sideways.

Deano has improved us both years so it's entirely feasible that he might do that again, albeit at the very top now and will be the biggest test and would be very impressive if we get there.

OGS and Arteta are bang average, Spurs unknown, I think Citeh, Pool, Chelsea and Leics are top4 for me, then we have to be forcing our way in to the mix for best of the rest.

It won't be easy thats for sure but I would hope to be fighting the rest from 5/10th.

Unrealistic? We are close to it this year, with Jack and without covid, I'd like to think we would have at least 12 more points, so with investment and the main man back, why can't we mix it with the above.

Hope that comes across as hopeful and positive, it will be tough but we have hope.

 

 

[thabucks]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He has only managed 2 seasons in the last 10 years due to health issues when at Schalke, one in 2015/16 when he was in the 2nd division with by far the biggest budget and finished 2nd, he also did one season while RB waited for Nagelsmann

He is a director of football mainly at Leipzig and not a coach

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espn.co.uk/football/german-bundesliga/story/4218884/ralf-rangnick-on-rb-leipzigs-success-and-being-the-godfather-of-gegenpressing%3fplatform=amp

Quote

Rangnick is 62 years old, but still has the thirst for another big challenge. He came close to joining AC Milan in the summer, but they opted to continue with then-interim coach Stefano Pioli.

Linked with spurs head coach job also ... they don’t seem to have qualms about his lack of recent managerial experience and can see the bigger picture his appointment could potentially  bring. I see the possible benefits outweighing the negatives. But then I’m not Lange & Co so it’s just my opinion and I’m also not calling for Smith to be replaced but would understand and accept if he was dependent on his chosen successor. 

[sharkyvilla]

2 hours ago, thabucks said:

I wonder what the reaction will be from some posters towards NSWE & Co if Smith is replaced this summer ... Will the same level of criticisms be levelled at the board as is towards posters on here who dare question Smiths position?

It depends on who they could get to replace him.  Purslow isn't footballingly retarded so there is zero chance of it happening soon.  I reckon there would be more chance of Jack wanting to leave as well if Dean went and wasn't replaced properly.

[tomav84]

2 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

From the WBA match thread (apologies, unable to quote from there properly) -

 

“I hope Edens & Sawaris have got a shortlist of top quality managers waiting for interview.”

“He can learn his trade at Walsall. At Brentford. At Villa we need a top manager that can take us to the next level.”

“Smith needs to go. Stubborn Bruce V2”

“Replacing Smith would be my first move if I were NSWE.  I can't see any signs that he is learning, and have no confidence he can take us where we want to go”

“I just think Smith is out of his depth for where we want to go as a club. They should be keeping their eye out on possible available managers this summer imo - if there's a better candidate go for it.”

“The sooner Smith is out of this club the better!”

“The longer this goes on the more I think Smith has to go.”

“Still wanna defend smith after this?”

I believe each of those posts were from a separate poster, so 8 posts, 8 different members. That’s from one game, took me about 5 minutes to compile that. If I felt inclined I reckon I could find a lot more voices from other matches.

Now, I don’t think that you yourself have ever said you want Smith gone, but to suggest there isn’t a ready in waiting collective that are prepared to jump in and call for his head is completely wrong as demonstrated, because I don’t believe the above posts are of a “questioning the manager” nature. They are “he’s not the manager for us, he needs to go” in tone.

playing devils advocate, things are said in the heat of a match and i'd be interested to know how many of those posters regretted their posts even 24 hours later. guessing a few.

there are one or 2 on here for sure that want him out but mainly because they never wanted him to begin with and they've stuck to their guns throughout. i'd say smith has the backing of the majority though.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Smith has earned another season. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

From the WBA match thread (apologies, unable to quote from there properly) -

 

“I hope Edens & Sawaris have got a shortlist of top quality managers waiting for interview.”

“He can learn his trade at Walsall. At Brentford. At Villa we need a top manager that can take us to the next level.”

“Smith needs to go. Stubborn Bruce V2”

“Replacing Smith would be my first move if I were NSWE.  I can't see any signs that he is learning, and have no confidence he can take us where we want to go”

“I just think Smith is out of his depth for where we want to go as a club. They should be keeping their eye out on possible available managers this summer imo - if there's a better candidate go for it.”

“The sooner Smith is out of this club the better!”

“The longer this goes on the more I think Smith has to go.”

“Still wanna defend smith after this?”

I believe each of those posts were from a separate poster, so 8 posts, 8 different members. That’s from one game, took me about 5 minutes to compile that. If I felt inclined I reckon I could find a lot more voices from other matches.

Now, I don’t think that you yourself have ever said you want Smith gone, but to suggest there isn’t a ready in waiting collective that are prepared to jump in and call for his head is completely wrong as demonstrated, because I don’t believe the above posts are of a “questioning the manager” nature. They are “he’s not the manager for us, he needs to go” in tone.

Is that the live match thread? If so you need to avoid that like the plague when things aren’t going well. People go nuts in there.  The post Match thread immediately after not winning can be an emotional place too. 

[Mark Albrighton]

8 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

playing devils advocate, things are said in the heat of a match and i'd be interested to know how many of those posters regretted their posts even 24 hours later. guessing a few.

there are one or 2 on here for sure that want him out but mainly because they never wanted him to begin with and they've stuck to their guns throughout. i'd say smith has the backing of the majority though.

Yeah, there will be a few things that are said in the heat of the moment (although typing something out in the heat of the moment is slightly different to saying it, in my opinion).

However I’m not sure how many people who posts “Smith out” type posts in a match thread later pause for reflection, think “Ah you know, I’m not thrilled about drawing with the baggies, but y’know Wolves just lost 4-0 at home to Burnley (or some other equally dismal result) so maybe I was a bit rash and in the great scheme of things it’s not all bad...maybe I should acknowledge that.”

It’s not often I see any semblance of contrition on here. I’d be inclined to let things go a bit more, if I saw posts in the Dean Smith thread post match that were akin to “You know what? I wasn’t happy with the performance, I still stand by that criticism, but having thought about it, I was a bit hot headed in suggesting he should be sacked.”

[villa89]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Smith has earned another season. 

I agree and there is no chance he will be replaced in time for next season.

[Dave-R]

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Yes

I love the paranoia from people who can’t handle their opinions about Smith being challenged, and start moaning about being “silenced” or whatever.

Smith has improved us season on season for 3 years now. Would be unhinged to roll the dice now when things continue to move in the right direction, and he seems to have the dressing room on side, including fringe players.

Your a strange one Villan, you get off on some real Freaky Deaky stuff.

[foreveryoung]

50 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

playing devils advocate, things are said in the heat of a match and i'd be interested to know how many of those posters regretted their posts even 24 hours later. guessing a few.

there are one or 2 on here for sure that want him out but mainly because they never wanted him to begin with and they've stuck to their guns throughout. i'd say smith has the backing of the majority though.

Name them?

[foreveryoung]

42 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Is that the live match thread? If so you need to avoid that like the plague when things aren’t going well. People go nuts in there.  The post Match thread immediately after not winning can be an emotional place too. 

Love to know what your like live at VP. Do you cheer them on at 2-0 down playing shite football, or do you go vent your frustration (not anger) like the other 38000 would do.

[tomav84]

18 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Name them?

villalad is the main one that immediately springs to mind

[Mark Albrighton]

18 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Love to know what your like live at VP. Do you cheer them on at 2-0 down playing shite football, or do you go vent your frustration (not anger) like the other 38000 would do.

Again, there’s a difference in being there live and commenting on a match online from your home.

For instance if Ollie Watkins’ misses a chance, I might go “Ah FFS Ollie” in disappointment. But I wouldn’t shout “Watkins, you’re shit!!” or similar in anger.

In the stadium someone might shout “Sort it out Smith” or words to that effect. That would be criticism borne out of frustration. To me it would be whole other thing to shout “Smith out” or “**** off back to Brentford”. I would expect that sort of comment to be derided by those within ear shot.

But you were suggesting that people don’t want him gone, or haven’t been posting to that effect. They have been. It’s mainly in the match thread, but it’s there. Does that not count?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Mark Albrighton

[Tommo_b]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

No. I like Smith. But the fact is his lack of willingness to be proactive in matches has cost us a lot of points. Ideally he continues to improve so we don't have to replace him but I imagine the start of next season will decide his fate.

He is deeply flawed as a manager and to not acknowledge that is ridiculous. 

Yet the very last game by not making the sub being screamed out for in the match thread has gone on to collect us 3 points.
 

Does not making a sub that goes on to get you 3 points count as being pro-active or inactive? 

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Yet the very last game by not making the sub being screamed out for in the match thread has gone on to collect us 3 points.
 

Does not making a sub that goes on to get you 3 points count as being pro-active or inactive? 

His record here is fantastic. Mid table championship - to mid table prem in less than 3 seasons.

It's the nature of football to always want more. Even under Ron Saunders there were quite a few seasons where we didn't seem to progressing, stuck around 8th .........but we didn't have the internet then !

I suppose at one stage this season we really looked the part, goals, clean sheets, jack and Martinez performing like god's. We've dipped from those lofty heights - but fans having tasted that want more.

I do wonder where we go from here - will the board back the purchase of £40m+ players to go into the first team ?  - or are they looking for the recruitment team to in earth gems for less than that.