Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Morning DC

Only the poster knows what he meant. 

As you have correctly highlighted there has been various reasons in this thread why posters are blaming the current slump.

But its the way certain points are dismissed when i think they have an element of truth when criticising smith.

Im hoping for 3 points against Everton but i recognise will be a tough game. I would have liked kesler or chuk to be given some game time last week. Didnt see what benefit having elmo start when he is leaving next month?

The only youngster he has given game time to is ramsey who i think hasnt really impressed yet. I think a loan move would do him good in summer

Yeah I'd love to see a couple of youngsters in. I was listening to Gregg Evans, who was at the Newcastle youth game, and he said that the priority with these kids is to win the FA youth Cup. Which I think is fair enough for their progression.

He also said that Carney signed his deal on the understanding that he'd be getting tracked into the first team so I'm sure it's only a matter of time. 

[Demitri_C]

42 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Yeah I'd love to see a couple of youngsters in. I was listening to Gregg Evans, who was at the Newcastle youth game, and he said that the priority with these kids is to win the FA youth Cup. Which I think is fair enough for their progression.

He also said that Carney signed his deal on the understanding that he'd be getting tracked into the first team so I'm sure it's only a matter of time. 

Oh did he? Thata good then. That would be great for these kids if they could win it.

The standouts look like kesler barry and chuka. Aarom Ramsey also looks like he has potential.

Bogarde is also highly thought of from what i have read

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

The only youngster he has given game time to is ramsey who i think hasnt really impressed yet. I think a loan move would do him good in summer

Interesting, because I think Ramsey has impressed.  Football, such a funny game. 

I say impressed, but I guess it's just relative to the other midfielders around him lately who I don't think have played well at all.  I would say has been better than Sanson, McGinn and Barkley. Luiz and Nakamba are more defensive so harder to compare.

Anyway, agree with the rest of the sentiment that I do think we could be giving some of the youth more of a chance, given at least some of the following:

- the form of the first team is poor, for whatever reason you want to pick

- the threat of relegation isn't there

- the pressure of a full stadium isn't there

- there are some youth team players who are clearly ripping up trees at their level, and looked perfectly capable against a largely first team Liverpool side (lots of caveats to that)

- but the biggest factor for me is we're playing a couple of has beens in the place of the youth team players we could be picking,  one of whom isn't even our player (Elmo, Barkley). I honestly do not believe the youth team would do any worse than them ignoring all the above. 

I get the view that every place is worth a lot of money, but don't think playing Kessler and Chuk instead of those two would have cost us any points. Probably more of a risk,  but I think the reward would be worth it.

[Demitri_C]

Just now, MrBlack said:

Interesting, because I think Ramsey has impressed.  Football, such a funny game. 

I say impressed, but I guess it's just relative to the other midfielders around him lately who I don't think have played well at all.  I would say has been better than Sanson, McGinn and Barkley. Luiz and Nakamba are more defensive so harder to compare.

Anyway, agree with the rest of the sentiment that I do think we could be giving some of the youth more of a chance, given at least some of the following:

- the form of the first team is poor, for whatever reason you want to pick

- the threat of relegation isn't there

- the pressure of a full stadium isn't there

- there are some youth team players who are clearly ripping up trees at their level, and looked perfectly capable against a largely first team Liverpool side (lots of caveats to that)

- but the biggest factor for me is we're playing a couple of has beens in the place of the youth team players we could be picking,  one of whom isn't even our player (Elmo, Barkley). I honestly do not believe the youth team would do any worse than them ignoring all the above. 

I get the view that every place is worth a lot of money, but don't think playing Kessler and Chuk instead of those two would have cost us any points. Probably more of a risk,  but I think the reward would be worth it.

I dont want to be harsh on Ramsey he was crap for the liverpool mistake but its mot easy for him while the teams on bad form and no jack. None of the cm are really inpressing tbh

[Zatman]

51 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont want to be harsh on Ramsey he was crap for the liverpool mistake but its mot easy for him while the teams on bad form and no jack. None of the cm are really inpressing tbh

yes his one bad moment in a Villa jersey that was over blown as Liverpool had a 2vs 1 on him

[Vive_La_Villa]

I do wonder if covid and Jack injury never happened how the season would have gone. Obviously you can’t rely on one player but it’s not like we’ve been hammered every game since his injury. We’ve mainly been losing by the odd goal.  That extra bit of creativity he offers is would have made all the difference.

[villalad21]

59 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I do wonder if covid and Jack injury never happened how the season would have gone. Obviously you can’t rely on one player but it’s not like we’ve been hammered every game since his injury. We’ve mainly been losing by the odd goal.  That extra bit of creativity he offers is would have made all the difference.

Football is a team sport.

If you constantly have to rely on individual brilliance rather than what i like to call team goals then that's poor coaching and not sustainable if we have aims for challenging for the top 6 in the future.

[gwi1890]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Morning DC

Only the poster knows what he meant. 

As you have correctly highlighted there has been various reasons in this thread why posters are blaming the current slump.

But its the way certain points are dismissed when i think they have an element of truth when criticising smith.

Im hoping for 3 points against Everton but i recognise will be a tough game. I would have liked kesler or chuk to be given some game time last week. Didnt see what benefit having elmo start when he is leaving next month?

The only youngster he has given game time to is ramsey who i think hasnt really impressed yet. I think a loan move would do him good in summer

Why hasn’t  Ramsey impressed? Hasn’t had a mare like Luiz , Nakamba , Konsa and many  had last year?  He’s kept it neat and tidy and got himself into good positions with limited minutes, I  really hope we all won’t be having this conversation when Kessler and Chukwuemeka get their opportunity 

[The Other Mat]

14 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Football is a team sport.

If you constantly have to rely on individual brilliance rather than what i like to call team goals then that's poor coaching and not sustainable if we have aims for challenging for the top 6 in the future.

So you're saying, for example, if one player contributes 30 goals in a season, which is say 20 more goals than the next top scorer in the team, that's not the brilliance of that player, but poor coaching? 

[Risso]

Ramsey has done OK. Hasn't looked out of place at all, but then also hasn't contributed very much positively either, a steady 6/10 most time he plays.

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 minutes ago, Risso said:

Ramsey has done OK. Hasn't looked out of place at all, but then also hasn't contributed very much positively either, a steady 6/10 most time he plays.

I like him.

[Dave-R]

13 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Why hasn’t  Ramsey impressed? Hasn’t had a mare like Luiz , Nakamba , Konsa and many  had last year?  He’s kept it neat and tidy and got himself into good positions with limited minutes, I  really hope we all won’t be having this conversation when Kessler and Chukwuemeka get their opportunity 

I thinkSmith is reluctant to play Youth, I really do.

All those words of age doesn't matter and if they are good enough they will get in leaves me scratching my head at times when we have had first teamers who have consistently been shite for weeks in end. It's almost as if Smith doesn't want to upset the order, by telling a bunch of first teamers you've had your chances now move over because Youth are showing signs of being better than you. Some first teamers need a kick up the ass and some it's almost as if you can feel they know there places are cemented and the only way they get removed is by us signing better in summer.

Barry and Chuk could be placed on the bench for the remainder of the season now and it would help give them experience giving them some minutes and get them ready for next season. Smith won't do that though, he doesn't rotate his squad often enough and will play the same players week in week out and grind them into an injury. There's no recovery rate for first teamers and eventually we get to where we're at now, where teams who have managed to rotate and sacrifice some games are now playing there first teamers again and getting results over the ones that kept the same teams. Smith needs to use Youth more even if it's for rotation and recovery and some games may have to be sacrificed in order for us to not drop off as we have done towards the second half of the season.

Ramsey all season has been the only Youth to be given a try and he's doon good, and as many of you say he hasn't messed up like other players.

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, The Other Mat said:

So you're saying, for example, if one player contributes 30 goals in a season, which is say 20 more goals than the next top scorer in the team, that's not the brilliance of that player, but poor coaching? 

Yes Fernandes, Salah stats have shown how bad the management of the football clubs really are, he wont like that Bamford has contributed to 21 of Leeds 50 goals so would say Bielsa is a poor coach too.

Grealish has contributed the same amount of goal contributions as Watkins now though he has played a few games more

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Dave-R said:

I thinkSmith is reluctant to play Youth, I really do.

All those words of age doesn't matter and if they are good enough they will get in leaves me scratching my head at times when we have had first teamers who have consistently been shite for weeks in end. It's almost as if Smith doesn't want to upset the order, by telling a bunch of first teamers you've had your chances now move over because Youth are showing signs of being better than you. Some first teamers need a kick up the ass and some it's almost as if you can feel they know there places are cemented and the only way they get removed is by us signing better in summer.

Barry and Chuk could be placed on the bench for the remainder of the season now and it would help give them experience giving them some minutes and get them ready for next season. Smith won't do that though, he doesn't rotate his squad often enough and will play the same players week in week out and grind them into an injury. There's no recovery rate for first teamers and eventually we get to where we're at now, where teams who have managed to rotate and sacrifice some games are now playing there first teamers again and getting results over the ones that kept the same teams. Smith needs to use Youth more even if it's for rotation and recovery and some games may have to be sacrificed in order for us to not drop off as we have done towards the second half of the season.

Ramsey all season has been the only Youth to be given a try and he's doon good, and as many of you say he hasn't messed up like other players.

Or maybe he realises they are too young to play in the Premier League and arent that well build physically yet. Chuk looks like a machine against other 17 year olds but he will look like a child next to Fabinho or Matic

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, The Other Mat said:

So you're saying, for example, if one player contributes 30 goals in a season, which is say 20 more goals than the next top scorer in the team, that's not the brilliance of that player, but poor coaching? 

Some context is needed.

If you heavily rely on one player in order to create chances and play good football then there is a coaching problem imo. Chances created is your bread and butter. If you don't create chances you don't score goals, and without Jack we've massively struggled in that department. We are boring to watch, a lot of fans aren't even looking forward to  our games anymore because we are so dull to watch at the moment.

We should be a weakened side without him but we shouldn't look like a Steve Bruce side. That is my argument. We should still look like a Dean Smith side, but we're not.

[KenjiOgiwara]

It seems to me that a few posters on here think clubs, that almost got relegated, walk through the following season without having a slump.

[Mjvilla]

25 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Some context is needed.

If you heavily rely on one player in order to create chances and play good football then there is a coaching problem imo. Chances created is your bread and butter. If you don't create chances you don't score goals, and without Jack we've massively struggled in that department. We are boring to watch, a lot of fans aren't even looking forward to  our games anymore because we are so dull to watch at the moment.

We should be a weakened side without him but we shouldn't look like a Steve Bruce side. That is my argument. We should still look like a Dean Smith side, but we're not.

Were we good to watch in Jack's last few games? Southampton away, Brighton away, west ham at home come to mind. I've seen you criticise the arsenal win too. Those are the last 4 games before Jack's injury. 

I won't talk about the game before that (which we lost) away at Burnley because I though we played really well. 

You're clinging to this theory about Jack, but the disappointing results and performances started before Jack's injury. 

It's the inconsistencies of a newly built young squad, for me. 

[tomav84]

18 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Were we good to watch in Jack's last few games? Southampton away, Brighton away, west ham at home come to mind. I've seen you criticise the arsenal win too. Those are the last 4 games before Jack's injury. 

I won't talk about the game before that (which we lost) away at Burnley because I though we played really well. 

You're clinging to this theory about Jack, but the disappointing results and performances started before Jack's injury. 

It's the inconsistencies of a newly built young squad, for me. 

he knows this....as does everyone else...he's just having his daily pop at smith

our average xG across those 4 games prior to jack's injury was 0.6. in the 11 games he's been out we have averaged 1.11

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

I thinkSmith is reluctant to play Youth, I really do.

All those words of age doesn't matter and if they are good enough they will get in leaves me scratching my head at times when we have had first teamers who have consistently been shite for weeks in end. It's almost as if Smith doesn't want to upset the order, by telling a bunch of first teamers you've had your chances now move over because Youth are showing signs of being better than you. Some first teamers need a kick up the ass and some it's almost as if you can feel they know there places are cemented and the only way they get removed is by us signing better in summer.

Barry and Chuk could be placed on the bench for the remainder of the season now and it would help give them experience giving them some minutes and get them ready for next season. Smith won't do that though, he doesn't rotate his squad often enough and will play the same players week in week out and grind them into an injury. There's no recovery rate for first teamers and eventually we get to where we're at now, where teams who have managed to rotate and sacrifice some games are now playing there first teamers again and getting results over the ones that kept the same teams. Smith needs to use Youth more even if it's for rotation and recovery and some games may have to be sacrificed in order for us to not drop off as we have done towards the second half of the season.

Ramsey all season has been the only Youth to be given a try and he's doon good, and as many of you say he hasn't messed up like other players.

Ramsay played a big part in allowing Liverpool to score a late winner. Its not a massive deal because all players make errors but youth players are more likely due to their lack of experience.

I don't think we can say Dean is reluctant to play youth players. 

There will be so many people in the loop monitoring the progression of these kids. We have u18 coaches, u23 coaches, first team coaches, an academy director, Lange and of course Dean. 

I think they deserve some trust in that as a club we know what we're doing. We're always desperate to see academy prospects come through but there's so much that goes in it, we can't just say Dean won't pick them. The fact he's picked Ramsay to start premier league games shows that's nonsense.

It also seems to be that they've decided the youth Cup is a priority for these players, which I'm fine with. 

Barry and Carney, will clearly be in the first team when deemed ready. 

[andyjsg]

3 hours ago, The Other Mat said:

So you're saying, for example, if one player contributes 30 goals in a season, which is say 20 more goals than the next top scorer in the team, that's not the brilliance of that player, but poor coaching? 

I was just thinking this, take Ings out of Saints and they dont have a replacement for example.

Its only really Man City who can live without say a Foden or KDB, I mean Man Utd are very reliant on Fernandes.

We also have lost Trez who was finally hitting some form and Sanson who also gave us another option.