nick76 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: You're right. But after a ball was kicked and where we were in January, those expectancy levels had risen and it was not unrealistic either imo. It was given our squad depth, even before we freefalled some of us said our squad depth would cause us problems later in the season. The season is a marathon, history has shown it was likely, we just didn’t have enough gas (ie in football terms squad depth or alternatives) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: We’ve also got a very thin on quality squad, which I’m pretty sure we agree on Andy! So we shouldn’t really be surprised that we are faltering at this stage of the season. I agree that after the start we had, it’s, on the surface at least, a missed opportunity but for the above reason not surprising or particularly Dean’s fault. Absolutely. We did have a chance in the summer to maybe add a couple more but couldn't/didn't. It isn't surprising to see we have fell away (would we have if Jack was still fit?). It does worry me though that it coincided with Jack getting injured and Dean Smith again not having the answer how to cope without him, that's what worries me. I agree he has done a good job in getting us where we are and large parts of seeing us fall away is out of pure frustration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) As is always the case across the years and decades.... the club's wage bill roughly predicts your league position. You can have some clubs over-achieve above that, some clubs under-achieve below that, but generally that rule holds true over the long-term. First year in the Premier League, Villa probably had a wage bill around 17th. We finished 17th. This season we will probably have a wage bill around 11th. We will probably finish around 8th-10th. Good progress so far. Next season our wage bill will probably be around 8th in the league. We would be aiming to beat that position. After that, it becomes a lot more difficult. The top 6 have revenue and therefore wages double or triple what Villa can pay. That's where we have to do a Leicester and buck the general rule. Can Dean Smith do that with the infrastructure built around him? Possibly. Edited April 9, 2021 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Couldn't tell you mate. Fair enough, it's all only speculation as to what their opinions are on our season. Fwiw I think our owners would be happy to currently be 9th ahead of Arsenal who have an expensively assembled squad and an enormous wage bill. Like everyone here I hoped that we would defy all preseason expectation and keep up our 1.8ppg average from early on but I don't think it is realistic to have expected that to happen given the squads at each clubs. I think given our squad the 1.5ppg we've got so far is an overachievement if anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, nick76 said: It was given our squad depth, even before we freefalled some of us said our squad depth would cause us problems later in the season. True Nick. I was also one of many of them. Many if us got shot down for suggesting we needed to add more players before this season had began for more quality squad depth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I don't see any of those either though. My comments were based on a position we were in at the said mentioned time. Did I think or expect us to get top 6 or 7 position at the beginning of the season. No, and I don't think many did. But when we were in a position to realistically look like making that happen only a few months ago with 2 games in hand, then the expectations were raised. As I say, it's frustrating we lost Jack and have looked a shit show in many games since then. Regardless of good spells you still need to take into account it's a 38 game season and we all know the kind of consistency required to finish high in the league. After 10 weeks into the league, we were above man city, but no one would have realistically believed that would last. Using your logic, man city were less likely to win the league, but everyone knew over a 38 game season, they'd be right up there. I'd be absolutely amazed if at any point this season, any bookie would have had us favourite to finish in that top 6 over the clubs you've mentioned. You claiming its realistic doesn't make it so. And then to use it to justify wanting a change of manager is crazy talk IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, nick76 said: Takes over club that has been on the decline for 10 years Promotion at first attempt Surviving relegation second season Likely Top 10 third season All in 2.5 years is incredibly impressive by any persons standards. Huge progression season over season. Shoe string budget Nick and yes it would be a great achievement. He's had hundreds of millions to spend in getting us here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Shoe string budget Nick and yes it would be a great achievement. He's had hundreds of millions to spend in getting us here though. Did he have loads of money in order to get us promoted? And how any villa fan can look at last summer and use that spending as a stick to beat the manager down with, is beyond me. Wonder if man city fans have this attitude towards Pep. Or Liverpool with Klopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Shoe string budget Nick and yes it would be a great achievement. He's had hundreds of millions to spend in getting us here though. So...you think he "should" be doing better? Worse? Arsenal and Wolves have both spent over £250m in a similar time frame and haven't moved forward as much as us. His great work here can't be taken away just because we've spent money. Edited April 9, 2021 by Tomaszk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Shoe string budget Nick and yes it would be a great achievement. He's had hundreds of millions to spend in getting us here though. Per player it wasn’t much and he’s basically had to build a team not only losing key players because they were loans or leaving and we are in a higher league. Not as if he was given a starting block of a squad really, he’s had to build every part apart from Jack. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 20 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: The change of manager suggestion comes on our part IF Dean Smith fails to kick us on combined with the worry he fails to get results when we lose one player. When your Liverpool's, Man Utd's and Man City's lose one player you don't see them struggling to think of a plan B and their results go to shit. Spurs without Kane are a different team. Man u without Bruno are a different team. Liverpool pissed the league and with out VVD might not even get top 4. Yet in two transfer windows, Dean Smith should have built a team that can qualify for Europe without Jack Grealish. I keep saying it, your unrealistic expectations are the real issue. That's not on Dean Smith. I've seen you say that top 6 was easily achievable this year and that we should go for Aguero in the summer. I'm beginning to see why you get so frustrated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, nick76 said: Per player it wasn’t much and he’s basically had to build a team not only losing key players because they were loans or leaving and we are in a higher league. Not as if he was given a starting block of a squad really, he’s had to build every part apart from Jack. Exactly this. How anyone can look at the money last season and believe we should now have a brilliant squad is beyond me. We all know why we had to spend and the limitations we faced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I don't see any of those either though. My comments were based on a position we were in at the said mentioned time. Did I think or expect us to get top 6 or 7 position at the beginning of the season. No, and I don't think many did. But when we were in a position to realistically look like making that happen only a few months ago with 2 games in hand, then the expectations were raised. As I say, it's frustrating we lost Jack and have looked a shit show in many games since then. This is probably the most annoying thing about this season for me. We haven't been higher than eighth in the table since match day 14 so less than half way through the season. Additionally one of the two games in hand which you mention was against Manchester City who are currently just the 14 points ahead of everybody else in the league. At what point was finishing top 6 or 7 suddenly the expectation for the season and failing to reach this an indictment on Smith? If you'd have offered me a top half finish at any point in the season then I'd have taken it being honest. Our squad isn't as good as any team above us. Even with Jack for the whole season a top half finish would be overachieving. To be without him for almost half a season and still finish top half would be a great season and the continuing questioning of Smith completely baffles me. We have a manager who is getting more out of the squad than what their ability is season after season and we're now looking to replace him for the sake of it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Everton have looked on and off. Spurs under Mourinho was always going to be calamity as we're witnessing. The change of manager suggestion comes on our part IF Dean Smith fails to kick us on combined with the worry he fails to get results when we lose one player. When your Liverpool's, Man Utd's and Man City's lose one player you don't see them struggling to think of a plan B and their results go to shit. Tottenham are the calamity under Mourinho?! This must mean Liverpool are a massive calamity under Klopp this season than? We are 8 points off the champions league places with 9 game’s to go... that’s freaking incredible! And we have missed our star player for what 7/8 games... amazing season from all involved. Let’s get some perspective, two years ago we were hoping for a run of form to get into the championship play offs! We were probably further back than 8 points too! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Yep two seasons ago we were 10 points off 4th place in the championship with 9 games to go, that team in 4th place was West Brom... The mighty Leeds were 19 points clear of us. Let that sink in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 Yeah to be honest I don't think the spend can be used as a stick to beat Smith with given it began with re-building a team that had prominent features such as Alan Hutton, Glen Whelan, Mile Jedinak etc. To go from there to people feeling genuinely disappointed to have not gotten into Europe in two seasons is actually incredible going even taking into account the amount spent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 It would be very harsh if he were to be dismissed this summer and I don’t believe it myself. That said it would depend on who was appointed. If it was say, Ralf Rangnick as an example then I’d be ok with Smith going . Stevie G then no and he can go do one and would be an egotistical and foolish appointment by Purslow and again not something I think is on the table currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Indigo said: Yeah to be honest I don't think the spend can be used as a stick to beat Smith with given it began with re-building a team that had prominent features such as Alan Hutton, Glen Whelan, Mile Jedinak etc. To go from there to people feeling genuinely disappointed to have not gotten into Europe in two seasons is actually incredible going even taking into account the amount spent. Not only have we risen from such depths so quickly, every club above us has spent more assembling their squads and all of them also have a far bigger wage bill. We will spend more in the future I'm sure but until we are at least somewhere significantly closer to the total expenditure of some of these clubs I don't think baseline expectations should be to finish ahead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: Yep two seasons ago we were 10 points off 4th place in the championship with 9 games to go, that team in 4th place was West Brom... The mighty Leeds were 19 points clear of us. Let that sink in. This is what I don't get sometimes. There are some who dismiss the last couple of years and say its all about now. But then those same people have these high demands based on something we did 40 years ago. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Newry_Villan Posted April 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, Indigo said: Yeah to be honest I don't think the spend can be used as a stick to beat Smith with given it began with re-building a team that had prominent features such as Alan Hutton, Glen Whelan, Mile Jedinak etc. To go from there to people feeling genuinely disappointed to have not gotten into Europe in two seasons is actually incredible going even taking into account the amount spent. Yep. People expecting Europe and calling it a disaster if we don't get in should give their head a wobble. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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