Dean Smith

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Teams go through poor form, it happens to all teams

Difference is they have been like that all season, we are just going through a poor run of games and again we are doing must better than them in this run as I repeat the table again since the turn of the year

 

 

edit: I’m angry about our poor as well, but it’s form not general.  One is a short term issue the other isn’t.

It's not short term though as we haven't played well for 2 months. 

 

And by well, I mean dominated a team, created loads of chances, been creative, looked like, well, a very good side.

 

This isn't a short term issue.

[AvfcRigo82]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Elmo having to play. Trez and El Ghazi having to be main creative players. Davis as the only back up option at striker. 

I asked Dem and he ignored it. Show me another team in the top half with squad depth issues like that? 

And then I might buy into the crying about not finishing above a few of them 

Once again, ignoring my original post and it seems like you're twisting it to suit some other agenda... correct me if I'm wrong.

Smith chose to loan out Guilbert and Keep Elmo - Not the fans.

El Ghazi and Trezeguet are not our main creative wide players, I would say it's Grealish and Traore with the formers being back up to these two.

Davis as backup, correct.

However, Smith has had oppurtunitys to rectify the striker problem but chose to stick with an injured Wesley and a player who see's 5 minutes a game on odd occasions, it was always a dangerous idea and it's coming back to haunt him.

So I have no idea what this "Crying" bollocks that you are mentioning is all about, but back to my original post...

Quote

I'm comparing what Smith has had to build this team, along with some solid coaches and based on this season as a whole - combined with having two of the best players in the PL at his disposal.

The excellent start to the season should not end in the shit show that we have witnessed over the last 6 or 7 games with what Smith has at his disposal.

We have looked like a Championship team since January and it's deeply concerning.

For you to come out now and use the squad depth issues as an argument is laughable, when many posters - including me - stated this back in September that we are still very light in many positions and lack squad depth and it's going to take it's toll come the latter stages of this season, but we got laughed off the forum for even trying to suggest this by some posters.

Smith has had more money to spend in these last two seasons than any other manager outside the top 4, but again we appear to be fading and going backwards.

We could have easily cemented a top 6 finish this season and looked like doing so until 6 weeks ago, Now we will be lucky if we finished in the top 12 due to looking like a one man team.

[nick76]

32 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

55 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Doesn’t that tell you something? Something a few of us have been saying about Davis.  If his biggest advocates don’t give him a chance then that should tell you something.

KD did more in his 10 minute cameo yesterday than any three of the wingers that played did for the rest of the game.

I believe that Smith is wedded to a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1.  

If he thinks Davis is that bad, as you suggest, then to go into the season with just Ollie & KD was madness

I agree re you last line but my post is still valid

[nick76]

22 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

It's not short term though as we haven't played well for 2 months. 

And by well, I mean dominated a team, created loads of chances, been creative, looked like, well, a very good side.

This isn't a short term issue.

But it is!

Teams go poor runs of 10-12 games, like Liverpool’s six defeats at home, Man City’s start to the season.

but

 

Lets say you are right what do want to happen?

Smith sacked?

or other players in the team?

or different tactics?

 

I assume not Smith sacked, we have been trying our other players and we don’t have much choice in tactics given the personnel available.  

Bad form happens.

So what do you want?

[mykeyb]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

How can anyone look at the teams above us and actually demand we finish above them? What's it based on? 

I might have missed this but who has demanded we finish higher? I have seen people say they expected to but thats not the same is it.

I get the squad needs to be stronger and that takes time, I get that Jack is a very talented player that any team with the exception probably on Man City would miss but what I dont get is that it is obvious that without Jack we struggle because Dean continues to pick the same team. He will pick 2 out of the three wingers with the one thats benched coming on at about 65-70 minutes. Berkley will come on for either Samson or Ramsey. Its just so predictable. Changes really needed to be made at half time yesterday because for all our intent we hadnt had an attempt on goal, but Dean sent out the same side again. He didnt give Jose anything to worry about as all the changes were like for like.

I dont think there is anything wrong with fans questioning whats going on with the team and performances, I have only seen one poster demand Dean is sacked but he is balanced out by your Dean can do no wrong.

Just out of interest if Jack isnt fit for Fulham what would be your line up?

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I appreciate what your saying that there will be ups and downs.  But our downs seem to be so bad.

We will never compete with downs like we have. 

The thing is its one injury - grealish its not like we have 4 or 5 players out like other sides. This is a worrying aspect for me

So bad? Our downs this season are way better than last season, and then if you compare them to our last season before that in the prem... 

We're happily on our way - this isn't a great period but it won't last forever. It's all part of the journey. 

[mykeyb]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But it is!

Teams go poor runs of 10-12 games, like Liverpool’s six defeats at home, Man City’s start to the season.

but

 

Lets say you are right what do want to happen?

Smith sacked?

or other players in the team?

or different tactics?

 

I assume not Smith sacked, we have been trying our other players and we don’t have much choice in tactics given the personnel available.  

Bad form happens.

So what do you want?

So how long do you persist with the names and the same subs and the same system before you think lets try something new.

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

So how long do you persist with the names and the same subs and the same system before you think lets try something new.

Like what?

Everything I’ve read on this site in the last 16 hours is tinkering around the edges of what we have now, with the same players almost and basically the same tactics give or take a bit.  

Most though are just complaining we are in bad form and whether it’s a blip or this us long term.  Some are just venting.

I get it all but this something new is something we don’t have at the moment because we are second season into a rebuild. All the suggestions otherwise are just tinkering around the edges.

What we have now is all we have for the next 10 games, they are in poor form...we just need them to click out of it.  Hopefully Jacks return will spark the team.

 

[Zatman]

59 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

It's not short term though as we haven't played well for 2 months. 

 

And by well, I mean dominated a team, created loads of chances, been creative, looked like, well, a very good side.

 

This isn't a short term issue.

we were the better team vs Leeds less than one month ago, vs Wolves was an even game and we created chances. Think we hit the woodwork 3 times

In the last 10 games we arent even near the worst teams in the league, we have taken the same amount of points as the current champions and one less than Everton and the almighty Leeds

[PaulC]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

we were the better team vs Leeds less than one month ago, vs Wolves was an even game and we created chances. Think we hit the woodwork 3 times

In the last 10 games we arent even near the worst teams in the league, we have taken the same amount of points as the current champions and one less than Everton and the almighty Leeds

 

Dunno you can ignore the slide if you wish but theres no doubt in my mind the energy has gone from the team. 

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, PaulC said:

 

Dunno you can ignore the slide if you wish but theres no doubt in my mind the energy has gone from the team. 

The question being has the energy gone because of covid, Jack's injury, us being safely mid table "on the beach" or a mixture of all 3?

Better managers than Smith have struggled with players performances, the guy who beat us last night being one of them... And his predecessor at spurs

[mykeyb]

26 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Like what?

Everything I’ve read on this site in the last 16 hours is tinkering around the edges of what we have now, with the same players almost and basically the same tactics give or take a bit.  

Most though are just complaining we are in bad form and whether it’s a blip or this us long term.  Some are just venting.

I get it all but this something new is something we don’t have at the moment because we are second season into a rebuild. All the suggestions otherwise are just tinkering around the edges.

What we have now is all we have for the next 10 games, they are in poor form...we just need them to click out of it.  Hopefully Jacks return will spark the team.

 

So do we just persist? Dont try something new?

[VillaFaninLondon]

45 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But it is!

Teams go poor runs of 10-12 games, like Liverpool’s six defeats at home, Man City’s start to the season.

but

 

Lets say you are right what do want to happen?

Smith sacked?

or other players in the team?

or different tactics?

 

I assume not Smith sacked, we have been trying our other players and we don’t have much choice in tactics given the personnel available.  

Bad form happens.

So what do you want?

10-12 games isn’t really a short term thing like you say, as we’re talking about 3 months there, but ok. 

 

I can guarantee both City fans at the start of the season and Liverpool fans now grumbling about that form and not happy with it. Don’t think their performances dropped quite as much as ours have though.

 

What I want, hmm let’s see:
•    To beat the weaker teams in the league and not drop unnecessary points (OK, can’t guarantee you might slip up once or twice in these games, but it’s happened 6-7 times to us this season)
•    To stop playing in the same predictable manner of flinging crosses into the box for nobody like last night, or hitting long balls up to Ollie like at Newcastle
•    To learn to play without Jack and get the best out of other players – some of this is a personnel issue I understand, but players like Luiz, McGinn, Barkley are paying well within themselves and this can’t be just down to the player
•    To tweak the system and occasionally spring some surprises (tactics, formation, preparation etc) – Smith is too easy to get the better of tactically

 

I also am concerned that the players are up late at night playing games and training later than most teams, it doesn't seem right to me and suggests a lack of discipline.

 

I don’t want Smith gone, but I believe the final 10 games of the season are important. If this form continues and we slip badly down the table (not saying this will happen, just hypothesizing), then serious questions have to be asked of his management. 

 

First off I want him to win at least three of the final 10 games because I believe there are three winnable games there. If he can add another 1 or 2 surprise wins out of nowhere (possibly Everton), or a couple of draws, that will be great too, but at least beat the teams we should be beating. 

[Mjvilla]

10 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

10-12 games isn’t really a short term thing like you say, as we’re talking about 3 months there, but ok. 

 

I can guarantee both City fans at the start of the season and Liverpool fans now grumbling about that form and not happy with it. Don’t think their performances dropped quite as much as ours have though.

 

What I want, hmm let’s see:
•    To beat the weaker teams in the league and not drop unnecessary points (OK, can’t guarantee you might slip up once or twice in these games, but it’s happened 6-7 times to us this season)
•    To stop playing in the same predictable manner of flinging crosses into the box for nobody like last night, or hitting long balls up to Ollie like at Newcastle
•    To learn to play without Jack and get the best out of other players – some of this is a personnel issue I understand, but players like Luiz, McGinn, Barkley are paying well within themselves and this can’t be just down to the player
•    To tweak the system and occasionally spring some surprises (tactics, formation, preparation etc) – Smith is too easy to get the better of tactically

 

I also am concerned that the players are up late at night playing games and training later than most teams, it doesn't seem right to me and suggests a lack of discipline.

 

I don’t want Smith gone, but I believe the final 10 games of the season are important. If this form continues and we slip badly down the table (not saying this will happen, just hypothesizing), then serious questions have to be asked of his management. 

 

First off I want him to win at least three of the final 10 games because I believe there are three winnable games there. If he can add another 1 or 2 surprise wins out of nowhere (possibly Everton), or a couple of draws, that will be great too, but at least beat the teams we should be beating. 

Where has this come from? Can you help me out please? I don't do social media, so will probably need some help as to where these sorts of things have come from and how we can compare it to other teams!

[mykeyb]

12 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

10-12 games isn’t really a short term thing like you say, as we’re talking about 3 months there, but ok. 

 

I can guarantee both City fans at the start of the season and Liverpool fans now grumbling about that form and not happy with it. Don’t think their performances dropped quite as much as ours have though.

 

What I want, hmm let’s see:
•    To beat the weaker teams in the league and not drop unnecessary points (OK, can’t guarantee you might slip up once or twice in these games, but it’s happened 6-7 times to us this season)
•    To stop playing in the same predictable manner of flinging crosses into the box for nobody like last night, or hitting long balls up to Ollie like at Newcastle
•    To learn to play without Jack and get the best out of other players – some of this is a personnel issue I understand, but players like Luiz, McGinn, Barkley are paying well within themselves and this can’t be just down to the player
•    To tweak the system and occasionally spring some surprises (tactics, formation, preparation etc) – Smith is too easy to get the better of tactically

 

I also am concerned that the players are up late at night playing games and training later than most teams, it doesn't seem right to me and suggests a lack of discipline.

 

I don’t want Smith gone, but I believe the final 10 games of the season are important. If this form continues and we slip badly down the table (not saying this will happen, just hypothesizing), then serious questions have to be asked of his management. 

 

First off I want him to win at least three of the final 10 games because I believe there are three winnable games there. If he can add another 1 or 2 surprise wins out of nowhere (possibly Everton), or a couple of draws, that will be great too, but at least beat the teams we should be beating. 

The above is spot on for me.

[VillaFaninLondon]

28 minutes ago, Zatman said:

we were the better team vs Leeds less than one month ago, vs Wolves was an even game and we created chances. Think we hit the woodwork 3 times

In the last 10 games we arent even near the worst teams in the league, we have taken the same amount of points as the current champions and one less than Everton and the almighty Leeds

Against Leeds we created chances but so did they, it wasn't a dominant display. Wolves was even yes, we were the better side in the first half, but in the second half one of their players somehow missed from a yard out and then Martinez saved from point blank range.

 

But go back to before Christmas, the only game we got outplayed was Leeds and in all the others we were either the better side or the equal of our opponent. Even the defeats against Brighton, Southampton and West Ham were incredibly harsh and we deserved at least a point from all of them. The only games I can think of that we have dominated since the turn of the year were Newcastle at home and Burnley away and they were back in January. 

 

We're 14th in the league table for form. We're not the only ones, Liverpool are indeed in shocking form but that doesn't mean their fans aren't incredibly pissed off by their situation and most likely laying into the players and manager. 

[danceoftheshamen]

I think the problem is, certainly when speaking about my own hopes aabout this team, is that we got more than a glimpse of how good we can be. I remember MOTD waxing lyrical about us demolishing Arsenal 3-0 on their own patch and seeing the details of just how good we were and had been for 12 / 13 games. The runs our players made en-masse into their box when counter attacking them.. we looked so good. Where has it gone? It's the same players all but Grealish pretty much. Barkley, Traore, McGinn, Cash & Targett.. and yet it was like a totally different team against Spurs and for the last two months... even with Grealish playing before his freak injury!

I think the distain and negativity is because of this. How can a team which looked so good, now look so poor? 

You can say Liverpool last season to this but they have been absolutley decimated by injuries to key players etc so no surprise really. As for us there appears no logical explanation and it drives me nuts. It is "us not them" too as to why we are poor. Early season we were a dream to watch, attacking at pace and finding the right passes so frequently in the final third.... What happened? It's very odd and very infuriating to watch as we give away possession time after time. Especially when we all watched us not do that for a 3rd of a season. So i understand the frustration as it is indeed bloody frustrating. 

As for expectations i never expected or demanded we finish top half although with how we were flying it can't help but feel disappointing to see us drop so dramatically & so quickly. Especially when it's basic schoolboy errors and sloppy play which are costing us all the time.

It's lack of focus &/or desire for me and that's unacceptable.

I would be delighted with finishing around midtable but it could & should have been so much more.

 

[VillaFaninLondon]

5 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Where has this come from? Can you help me out please? I don't do social media, so will probably need some help as to where these sorts of things have come from and how we can compare it to other teams!

 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

I might have missed this but who has demanded we finish higher? I have seen people say they expected to but thats not the same is it.

I get the squad needs to be stronger and that takes time, I get that Jack is a very talented player that any team with the exception probably on Man City would miss but what I dont get is that it is obvious that without Jack we struggle because Dean continues to pick the same team. He will pick 2 out of the three wingers with the one thats benched coming on at about 65-70 minutes. Berkley will come on for either Samson or Ramsey. Its just so predictable. Changes really needed to be made at half time yesterday because for all our intent we hadnt had an attempt on goal, but Dean sent out the same side again. He didnt give Jose anything to worry about as all the changes were like for like.

I dont think there is anything wrong with fans questioning whats going on with the team and performances, I have only seen one poster demand Dean is sacked but he is balanced out by your Dean can do no wrong.

Just out of interest if Jack isnt fit for Fulham what would be your line up?

We're 10th and people are having a meltdown. It's been constant moaning all season by some, regardless of performances and results. 

If they aren't demanding we finish higher then what's the issue?

Dean can, and has done things wrong. But I never get the desire to focus on these when overall the bigger picture is very good. 

Like with Martinez, he's been superb so I see no reason to really focus and criticise his error, that led to the goal last night. 

 

[Zatman]

I think some people got caught out by the freak start to the season and the hype about its unpredictability. if i remember we were the last team to lose

City and Chelsea got there act together and West ham is the only overachieving team in the league who in the end will probably still finish behind Liverpool or Spurs

I see us a conparison to Leicester last season, in the title race at Christmas, top 4 all season and didn't even make Champions League in the end. Bet Leicester fans werent as aggressively against Rodgers all the time