nick76 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Just now, est1874 said: Dean Smith is a good manager, but a limited manager. That's basically the reality of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: So you're angry about something that might happen. Wouldn't it make sense to see if it does? i'm angry because we've dropped points vs shite teams and i'm angry because in jack's absence we have persisted with a style of play that doesn't suit the personnel we have, and have not even attempted something different to change our fortunes. i'm not angry about what might happen. 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: What if we'd started awful and then ended brilliantly? Or what if we'd just been consistently around 13th and very average? It's a 38 game season, getting worked up over when good spells and bad spells happen is ridiculous IMO. Especially with this season. No proper pre season, no fans, covid shutting down the training ground and fixture pile ups. I think some of you have just either switched off from reality or just look for any reason to moan. i expected us to be the bolded part to be honest and was fine with that but expectations change throughout the season. had we started shit, expectations would've shifted to the 'lets just stay up' mentality. do you not agree that it would be disappointing to finish bottom half seeing as we've been in the top half all season? because that's where we're headed. and this started before jack got injured. we set a benchmark for the first half so some of us are rightly questioning why we are having this bad spell. it's not been through shitty VAR decisions, or a tough run of games. yes jack has been injured but we still should have done better vs the teams we've played with the team we had available. for the 6 games we've missed jack for we have looked totally toothless because of smith's insistence on using the wings despite them being inadequate and folks are rightly asking questions. the bad spell has been largely our own doing. it wasn't due to dodgy VAR decisions or a tough run of games. you accept those. i watched the shite teams earlier in the season like sheff utd, newcastle, baggies etc thinking "thank **** this isn't my team anymore". i think it's OK to be annoyed that we are no better than those teams right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, tomav84 said: we set a benchmark for the first half so some of us are rightly questioning why we are having this bad spell. Teams go through poor form, it happens to all teams 8 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i watched the shite teams earlier in the season like sheff utd, newcastle, baggies etc thinking "thank **** this isn't my team anymore". i think it's OK to be annoyed that we are no better than those teams right now Difference is they have been like that all season, we are just going through a poor run of games and again we are doing must better than them in this run as I repeat the table again since the turn of the year edit: I’m angry about our poor as well, but it’s form not general. One is a short term issue the other isn’t. Edited March 22, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Elmo having to play. Trez and El Ghazi having to be main creative players. Davis as the only back up option at striker. I asked Dem and he ignored it. Show me another team in the top half with squad depth issues like that? And then I might buy into the crying about not finishing above a few of them Ignored what DC? Ask me the question and ill happily answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, nick76 said: Teams go through poor form, it happens to all teams i accept poor form, it's the manner of the poor form that has irked me. i maintain the newcastle and sheffield utd games were our 2 worst performances since we got promoted. what can i say, it's gotten to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, lexicon said: I just think you need to accept that there will be ups and downs at this point in our development. I appreciate what your saying that there will be ups and downs. But our downs seem to be so bad. We will never compete with downs like we have. The thing is its one injury - grealish its not like we have 4 or 5 players out like other sides. This is a worrying aspect for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, tomav84 said: i accept poor form, it's the manner of the poor form that has irked me. i maintain the newcastle and sheffield utd games were our 2 worst performances since we got promoted. what can i say, it's gotten to me. Newcastle did the double over Everton. Sheff Utd beat Man Utd at Old Trafford. Welcome to football where unexpected results happen and teams have bad (and good!) games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, est1874 said: Dean Smith is a good manager, but a limited manager. That's basically the reality of it. I don't think he is limited. Why do you think that? He's done a phenomenal job so far and in so doing has demonstrated that he knows how to both identify the teams problems and solve them. Some good signigns in teh summer and I don't think we'll be talking about Smith's limits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i'm angry because in jack's absence we have persisted with a style of play that doesn't suit the personnel we have, and have not even attempted something different to change our fortunes. This is my big bugbear. I understand that we have limited options BUT at least bloody try them!! We keep hearing that everybody at VP loves KD BUT nobody wants to give him a chance. I could understand this if El Ghazi, BT and Trez were ripping things up but they most definitely are not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 38 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i am too and that's where the fanbase is split, those that are happy even if we finish 13th/14th because that still counts as progress vs those that would be disappointed. expectations can change during the season. would i have taken 13/14th before the season started? abso-fking-lutely. would i take that now? no way. it would have meant a shocking 2nd half of the season and i'd expect questions to be asked of the coaching staff if we finish as low as that. Yep my thoughts. We won't be able to play the newly promoted card much longer either. Newcastle coming up in 2010 and then finishing 5th in 2012 is another newly promoted team who quickly got up the prem table. Yes we had a skeleton squad when we went up but we also have Grealish which isn't a luxury many promoted teams have, player of that quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i accept poor form, it's the manner of the poor form that has irked me. i maintain the newcastle and sheffield utd games were our 2 worst performances since we got promoted. what can i say, it's gotten to me. I get that, it’s irked me as well I just don’t want to let it override everything but I get your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, romavillan said: I don't think he is limited. Why do you think that? He's done a phenomenal job so far and in so doing has demonstrated that he knows how to both identify the teams problems and solve them. Some good signigns in teh summer and I don't think we'll be talking about Smith's limits. Because he is so wedded to one system 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which he just doesn't want to change, even though he doesn't have the personnel, without Jack, to play it effectively. We don't know if the other systems would be better BUT they cannot be any worse than what we are getting at the minute!! He did this in the Championship when Jack was injured and we went on a long losing streak before Jack came back and we won 10 in a row. He is good at building a squad to play the way he wants to play - as he demonstrated at Brentford - but he is not good at showing any tactical flexibility, which he most definitely needs to do at the minute as we are half way through the squad build programme. Compare him to Rodgers, for example, who switched them to a diamond in their game against Liverpool and saw a turnaround and has stuck with two strikers since and it is working. It won't always work, but it is worth a try when what you keep trying is getting you nowhere!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: Don't think something like that will convince Jack to stay long term I'm afraid. He'll look at us posting top 5 defensive stats for most of the season, top half for goals....and yet we'd only be finishing 3-4 places higher than last season's relatively poor season despite signing some good players last summer. What do we actually have to do to finish say 8th? It's not that hard. In previous years Wolves, Burnley and Sheffield United have all been newly promoted and finished between 7-9th. From next season we won't have excuse of being fresh and naive team in this league anymore as halfway through most of the first team squad would've played 100 games at this level. We need to be finishing top half. I'm really surprised at how people are just accepting so easily us dropping down the table. We're going on about achieving this and that under the new ownership in premier league yet seemingly give up in a season when we encounter some difficulty. Same old Villa I'm afraid as that's been the case for last 20 years. I don’t get why people see it as “excuses” etc - it’s just a bad run of form which every team has. There’s nothing wrong with criticising the manager - “just accepting us dropping down the table” is a **** lol. There’s a big difference between this and calling for him to be sacked just because we’re in bad form though. It’s short sighted nonsense in the best season we’ve had in a LONG time. We’re 10th in the league, closer to 6th than 14th and with a game in hand over most sides. Sack the manager? Give your **** heads a wobble lads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 It is not about expectation of finishing in any particular position or winning any particular game, it's about giving it a proper go (visibly) and, when things aren't working for whatever reason, trying different things that might give you a spark. It just appears that Dean and his team have run out of ideas and surrendered until Jack the Messiah comes back. What would Smith have done if we hadn't been lucky enough to have Jack at the club? (We might find out next season!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Its funny a lot of the same people were moaning when we were winning but he didnt make subs, what a coincidence Smith is making earlier subs and we are playing shitter. Maybe he was right all along not using some of them subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, barry'sboots said: We keep hearing that everybody at VP loves KD BUT nobody wants to give him a chance. I could understand this if El Ghazi, BT and Trez were ripping things up but they most definitely are not! Doesn’t that tell you something? Something a few of us have been saying about Davis. If his biggest advocates don’t give him a chance then that should tell you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its funny a lot of the same people were moaning when we were winning but he didnt make subs, what a coincidence Smith is making earlier subs and we are playing shitter. Maybe he was right all along not using some of them subs And when we rotate players and now those players aren’t all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, nick76 said: Doesn’t that tell you something? Something a few of us have been saying about Davis. If his biggest advocates don’t give him a chance then that should tell you something. KD did more in his 10 minute cameo yesterday than any three of the wingers that played did for the rest of the game. I believe that Smith is wedded to a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1. If he thinks Davis is that bad, as you suggest, then to go into the season with just Ollie & KD was madness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: Don't think something like that will convince Jack to stay long term I'm afraid. He'll look at us posting top 5 defensive stats for most of the season, top half for goals....and yet we'd only be finishing 3-4 places higher than last season's relatively poor season despite signing some good players last summer. What do we actually have to do to finish say 8th? It's not that hard. In previous years Wolves, Burnley and Sheffield United have all been newly promoted and finished between 7-9th. From next season we won't have excuse of being fresh and naive team in this league anymore as halfway through most of the first team squad would've played 100 games at this level. We need to be finishing top half. I'm really surprised at how people are just accepting so easily us dropping down the table. We're going on about achieving this and that under the new ownership in premier league yet seemingly give up in a season when we encounter some difficulty. Same old Villa I'm afraid as that's been the case for last 20 years. Exactly. I don't know why to some dropping down to finish 14th is in any way acceptable. Three places above last season (which, by the way, even Dean said himself was an unacceptable season), it would mean we barely pick up any points in our final 10 games, end the season on a sour note, miss out on the position that Jack himself said he was told the club was aiming to finish (between 8th and 12th), and speaking for myself here but I would be really angry and embarrassed that we dropped that low. 12th at the minimum we have to finish, but top 10 is very much doable and would give us a much better chance going into next season to bring in the players we want. We can still do it but this manager has to sort out the slump we're in and fast, so far shows absolutely no sign he's going to do that. Fulham has to be a must win game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its funny a lot of the same people were moaning when we were winning but he didnt make subs, what a coincidence Smith is making earlier subs and we are playing shitter. Maybe he was right all along not using some of them subs I think the problem is the players on the bench are all rubbish. We have a decent first XI if everyone is fit, the drop off after that is huge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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