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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, useless said:

Hi hoooooooooo silverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............................When he joined there were those that questioned whether he could get a team promoted after only managing Walsall and Brentford, last season there were doubts that he'd keep us up, this season there were again doubts that he'd keep us up or be good enough as a manager to take us to the next level, he's done all those things, so I'd be reluctant to doubt that with better players he can take us a stage further next season.

There will always be doubters its Human Nature.....just like there were those that thought Paul Lambert was the second coming....they went quiet too.

but its a forum, what is wrong with asking questions without the narrative turning so quickly to wanting him out.

None of us really know what goes on/happens at BMH and it is probably as less reported, than its ever been.....some stuff, is probably better that we don't know.......but being inquisitive, is natural.......we care.

Edited by TRO
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We were never gonna keep up our early season form, even without covid a drop off was always likely, to expect us to have kept up our early season form is basically the same as expecting us to challenge for top four/ the title all season because with the points we'd gain from such a run amounts to pretty much same thing. We've taken eighteen points from the last twelve, only three less than Man Utd, two less than Everton, and one less than Chelsea over the same period, it's only really West Ham, Arsenal and especially Man City that have done exceptionally better.

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Each season we and Smith have progressed. I've no doubt we will again if he is backed, which I'm sure he will be. If anyone expected us to be doing as well as we are currently then I'd be amazed.

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42 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

He has done what has been expected of him, his done his job. With the money we have spent and one of the best players in the Premier League I would have expected midtable, especially how shite many teams have been this season and that's where we will finish. My frustration is, it looked like we was gonna have a stormer, it's now tailed off, with no real sense of the quality we started with, coming back.

He got us promoted when no one believed we would first season. He kept us up, which met the goal and this year has progressed us past what anyone really predicted. 

 

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27 minutes ago, useless said:

We were never gonna keep up our early season form, even without covid a drop off was always likely, to expect us to have kept up our early season form is basically the same as expecting us to challenge for top four/ the title all season because with the points we'd gain from such a run amounts to pretty much same thing. We've taken eighteen points from the last twelve, only three less than Man Utd, two less than Everton, and one less than Chelsea over the same period, it's only really West Ham, Arsenal and especially Man City that have done exceptionally better.

Yep, 100% correct. Anyone expecting that form to continue was not being realistic. It was always an issue, people using our great start to lump expectations on the team and then moan when they don't get achieved. 

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5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

and this year has progressed us past what anyone really predicted. 

So far.

We could still easily end up finish around 12th which is where many of us predicted before the season.

If we end up around 8th-9th that would be a brilliant achievement but there is still a long way to go to achieve that.

Edited by villalad21
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6 hours ago, a m ole said:

Well yeah, exactly. the idea of him hitting a ceiling as a manager meaning we could never progress from where we are now because he didn’t make a sub until 10 mins after we all (including me) wanted him to is silly. We don’t know! 

Give Smith Liverpool’s squad, do we think he’d be sitting in 6th behind Moyes’ West Ham? Has Klopp hit his ceiling as a manager? Where is Moyes’ ceiling now he’s doing better with an average squad than he did with a title winning squad?

Fans are automatically blaming Smith, because that is all they know. I’ve said on here before that he isn’t the finished article he is learning as he’s going, he makes mistakes, but he learns from them. We don’t know where his ceiling is at.

We’ve gone from a team with no PL experience, to a team that on its best day can compete with any of the top clubs. But as we’re seeing now, we can’t compete at that top level for 38 games of the season. COVID didn’t help, but was always going to happen. It comes down to the experience of the players. Next season will tell us whether this group can go again and play at a high level for most of the season.

Dont get me wrong, Smith is at fault as well, as he should have been rotating some players to keep them fresh, something he is realising now.

 

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9 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

Fans are automatically blaming Smith, because that is all they know. I’ve said on here before that he isn’t the finished article he is learning as he’s going, he makes mistakes, but he learns from them. We don’t know where his ceiling is at.

We’ve gone from a team with no PL experience, to a team that on its best day can compete with any of the top clubs. But as we’re seeing now, we can’t compete at that top level for 38 games of the season. COVID didn’t help, but was always going to happen. It comes down to the experience of the players. Next season will tell us whether this group can go again and play at a high level for most of the season.

Dont get me wrong, Smith is at fault as well, as he should have been rotating some players to keep them fresh, something he is realising now.

Is he learning or is the improvement mainly down to him having better players at his disposal?

The fact that we've never won a game this season after being a goal behind does not suggest he is actually learning.

When his pre match tactics are working it's all good but he's always really been like that. It's when the plan A isn't working that he doesn't seem to have a clue what to do and how to change it.

I can't really recall him making a sub or a change that's changed a game for us this season. It's pretty much like if the plan a is working we win. If it doesn't and we get behind we lose and no subs or changes he makes can change that.

Edited by villalad21
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31 minutes ago, useless said:

We were never gonna keep up our early season form, even without covid a drop off was always likely, to expect us to have kept up our early season form is basically the same as expecting us to challenge for top four/ the title all season because with the points we'd gain from such a run amounts to pretty much same thing. We've taken eighteen points from the last twelve, only three less than Man Utd, two less than Everton, and one less than Chelsea over the same period, it's only really West Ham, Arsenal and especially Man City that have done exceptionally better.

So what is our true form the early 12 games or this last 12.

I don't entirely subscribe to that, we are a devloping team, so why do we expect the early season form to be false and not sustainable, that sounds like a cop out to me.

We have arguably one of the best Goalkeepers in the league....we amongst the best 2 centre Backs....we have 2 full backs being touted for International Honours.... we have CDM rubbing shoulders with the best CDM in world football for Brazil.....We have John McGinn who is vice captain of his country.....Jack who is mooted in some quarters as the best player in the country....and a centre forward who has taken the premier league by surprise with his energy hard running and an eye for goal.

We have 2 international wingers and a new midfielder who is no stranger to Champions league football.

Are you suggesting we should crouch in the corner like a withering shrew.....

With a line up like that, we have every right to have a bit of expectation and a coaching crew, who have incrementally progressed this team so far.

We are not ready for European football just yet, you only have to watch the games to know, despite, some good ones......but Blimey, we are quite in order to expect to beat Sheff Utd, Burnley or Brighton.

West Ham don't seem to have much trouble dreaming.....and yet they were holding hands with us last season at the bottom.

 

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1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Is he learning or is the improvement mainly down to him having better players at his disposal?

The fact that we've never won a game this season after being a goal behind does not suggest he is actually learning.

When his pre match tactics are working it's all good but he's always really been like that. It's when the plan A isn't working that he doesn't seem to have a clue what to do and how to change it.

Like yesterday. They go down to ten men and he just leaves it until the last 23 minutes to make a change. We're 1-0 down you have to change it sooner than that. 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

He got us promoted when no one believed we would first season. He kept us up, which met the goal and this year has progressed us past what anyone really predicted. 

 

but why do you keep rolling that out?...which is true by the way......when we are talking about losing games we maybe should have won.....its about the here and now, not the then.

Can't you offer your reasoning as to why you think the 3 points got away from us?.....it doesn't have to be a slight on the manager....but you can at least give your insight, it would be more interesting than going back 2 years ago, to give a form of mitigation to it.

Edited by TRO
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3 minutes ago, TRO said:

So what is our true form the early 12 games or this last 12.

I don't entirely subscribe to that, we are a devloping team, so why do we expect the early season form to be false and not sustainable, that sounds like a cop out to me.

We have arguably one of the best Goalkeepers in the league....we amongst the best 2 centre Backs....we have 2 full backs being touted for International Honours.... we have CDM rubbing shoulders with the best CDM in world football for Brazil.....We have John McGinn who is vice captain of his country.....Jack who is mooted in some quarters as the best player in the country....and a centre forward who has taken the premier league by surprise with his energy hard running and an eye for goal.

We have 2 international wingers and a new midfielder who is no stranger to Champions league football.

Are you suggesting we should crouch in the corner like a withering shrew.....

With a line up like that, we have every right to have a bit of expectation and a coaching crew, who have incrementally progressed this team so far.

We are not ready for European football just yet, you only have to watch the games to know, despite, some good ones......but Blimey, we are quite in order to expect to beat Sheff Utd, Burnley or Brighton.

West Ham don't seem to have much trouble dreaming.....and yet they were holding hands with us last season at the bottom.

 

Only 6 points between us and West Ham "dreaming" and we have games in hand on them. The only games I've been disappointed with are games like Burnley where we capitulated and games like Southampton where we were 2nd best. We've also lost games when playing well so I think it all averages out in the end. Losing to Sheffield United stings but we're still well on course for a great season. Go beat Wolves and Newcastle and we're 9 points better off than the previous season with 10 left to play 

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3 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Like yesterday. They go down to ten men and he just leaves it until the last 23 minutes to make a change. We're 1-0 down you have to change it sooner than that. 

He strikes me more of a good coach rather than a great tactical manager.

This is why i rank Guardiola as number one. He is both of those things. A true genius of the game.

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West Ham are only six points ahead of us having played a game more and having played all the bottom three twice, they're hardly doing amazingly better than we are, being envious of them would only make sense if we were doing significantly better than us, but they're not, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that after the weekends games we will be just three points behind them with a game in hand.

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Just now, villalad21 said:

He strikes me more of a good coach rather than a great tactical manager.

This is why i rank Guardiola as number one. He is both of those things. A true genius of the game.

He probably felt we started the second half well so why not stick with it for a while but when they went down to 10 men you can afford to take a risk.

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2 minutes ago, skarroki said:

Only 6 points between us and West Ham "dreaming" and we have games in hand on them. The only games I've been disappointed with are games like Burnley where we capitulated and games like Southampton where we were 2nd best. We've also lost games when playing well so I think it all averages out in the end. Losing to Sheffield United stings but we're still well on course for a great season. Go beat Wolves and Newcastle and we're 9 points better off than the previous season with 10 left to play 

To be away from  the trap door means a very good season....its means a huge improvement.

but what we are talking about is not how poor we are....but how can we get better.

Of course overall we are having a good season.....but in view of our cracking away record, how did we slip up with the bottom of the table team....its just banter.

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In my view, Smith cannot be considered a top manager yet. He has a lot to do to prove himself. 
Plus points are he has done a good job so far, he is one of us, he seems to improve players, he loves the club, he seems to be capable of learning/improving and he is a top bloke.

Negatives are, in my view, he makes some very poor team selections, he is very slow to react to evolving on field situations and he is probably a tiny bit soft.

Still got plenty of credit in the bank for me. Next year is big. Assuming we back him again in the summer (nothing certain with C-19), we need to be better next season. We need to show that we can dominate and control games. Even against the best. He also needs to prove that he has the judgement and balls to replace some of his favourite players who need replacing. I am especially thinking of SJM here. 

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2 minutes ago, useless said:

West Ham are only six points ahead of us having played a game more and having played all the bottom three twice, they're hardly doing amazingly better than we are, being envious of them would only make sense if we were doing significantly better than us, but they're not, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that after the weekends games we will be just three points behind them with a game in hand.

They are in far better form though 

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2 minutes ago, PaulC said:

They are in far better form though 

Better form and they are a stronger unit.

Such a well balanced side with no glaring weakness.

I think Emi, Cash and Watkins were awesome signings and a huge step in the right direction.

Our midfield still look too lightweight to me and Traore is very inconsistent.

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10 minutes ago, TRO said:

but why do you keep rolling that out?...which is true by the way......when we are talking about losing games we maybe should have won.....its about the here and now, not the then.

Can't you offer your reasoning as to why you think the 3 points got away from us?.....it doesn't have to be a slight on the manager....but you can at least give your insight, it would be more interesting than going back 2 years ago, to give a form of mitigation to it.

My response wasn't about this game. It was about those that keep doubting him. What he's achieved has shown that those who continually doubted him got it horribly wrong, so I'm not surprised those same people are desperate to ignore his good work in the past. 

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