Dean Smith

[Nabby]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

As for the debate here the other day about Frank Lampard, is he really doing a better job than Dean Smith. 

Chelsea have conceded more goals, win less games and lost 4 more games than last season and cant reach the same points total as last season but apparently some on here think he is doing a great job

He has the same issue as Smith his teams are poor at defending but he has better players so as won games , but has done worse than Sarri who was sacked...

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, Nabby said:

He has the same issue as Smith his teams are poor at defending but he has better players so as won games , but has done worse than Sarri who was sacked...

in the media he is unsurprisingly getting protected while Sarri was slaughtered for doing more.

[VillaCas]

13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont believe this for a second. He did have a input. Maybe some were suso but he contributed to assembling this woeful team

So no credit for anything at Brentford but a clear contribution at Villa? That seems very balanced and fair

[jim]

I honestly don’t understand the calls to keep him here next season.

There is a losing mentality around the club right now stinking the place out. It’s going to be a pretty quick turnaround before next season starts. What makes people think Smith is going to change that?

The players clearly aren’t giving there all for him. What is he going to do to make them give 110% in the dog fight that is the Championship?  We have been in a relegation fight and the players should be running through brick walls for him, why aren’t they? Is too soft, is he just one of the lads and they don’t respect him. He threw the towel in against Man Utd, how can the players respect him after that?

He did a miraculous job during the 10/12 game spell to get us up, but I honestly believe he fell upon a winning formula helped in the main by Jack’s return and having some of the best players in the division at his disposal. Let’s not forget the dozen or so games prior to that when we were absolute dog shit. I also recall there several people then saying the players weren’t good enough.

For me there has been far more bad than good under Smith and that is why we need to go our separate ways and have a fresh start. I fear if we keep him it will be more of the same next season and he’ll get the bullet around Nov/Dec and we’ll have wasted another season in the Championship. 

[jim]

21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

As for the debate here the other day about Frank Lampard, is he really doing a better job than Dean Smith. 

Chelsea have conceded more goals, win less games and lost 4 more games than last season and cant reach the same points total as last season but apparently some on here think he is doing a great job

He lost Eden Hazard and had no summer window so he had to blood a lot of youngsters so it’s harsh to compare it to Sarri’s season IMO. 

[mykeyb]

27 minutes ago, Zatman said:

As for the debate here the other day about Frank Lampard, is he really doing a better job than Dean Smith. 

Chelsea have conceded more goals, win less games and lost 4 more games than last season and cant reach the same points total as last season but apparently some on here think he is doing a great job

Eden Hazard says Hello

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, jim said:

He lost Eden Hazard and had no summer window so he had to blood a lot of youngsters so it’s harsh to compare it to Sarri’s season IMO. 

Chelsea used 15 internationals today out of the 16 players. They are not some Ajax 95 squad that people are making them out to be.

Only 2 of the 20 man squad today were not internationals

[mykeyb]

I believe that Dean had some input at Brentford and with us. Clearly losing Dean hasn't damaged Brentford as they continue to play some great football and they have spent some money this season too rather than sell their best players.

Dean has been unlucky to lose Heaton, Mings, McGinn and Wesley for long periods this season as that is the spine of the team. My main issue is that pretty much every man and his dog thinks our wingers aren't good enough and yet he still continues to play them. For both Liverpool and Man U. he could have flooded the midfield and made it difficult for the opposition but he chose to play Tres who is the very definition of a headless chicken.

Losing can become a bad habit and starting next season with the same management and majority of players could be a continuation of where we leave off this season.

Edited July 11, 2020 by mykeyb

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

Last season he took over a disjointed outfit in 14th place and turned them round with a record-breaking run including some of the best football seen at VP for years and culminating with a brilliant cup final victory

This season in the toughest league in the world we are arguably (without Abraham and Axel) worse than last season, but certainly no better, we have struggled.

At times Smith has struggled to and I hope and expect he is wiser for it. He has already proved he can perform in the Championship and should he bring us straight back up I believe he will be a better manager next time round

We have performed almost exactly as I thought we would after witnessing the transfer window last summer 

Did you think we would be relegated with a whimper?

Tomorrow will be the acid test for me. Smith has got some stick since the last game. Mings was torn to shreds on Sky and Jack's been getting it too. I expect a reaction, I expect a performance. If there isn't one then I cannot work out why Dean should be given next season to be honest

[GrassyNoel]

39 minutes ago, OLDVILLAIN said:

Only difference is that we are going to be relegated and chelsea are not.

And what bugs me is I can never see a team like Chelsea getting relegated. All sorts of action would be taken the moment it seemed even remotely likely. Villa, on the other hand, now seem to aim lower. 

[WooJung]

22 minutes ago, jim said:

I honestly don’t understand the calls to keep him here next season.

There is a losing mentality around the club right now stinking the place out. It’s going to be a pretty quick turnaround before next season starts. What makes people think Smith is going to change that?

The players clearly aren’t giving there all for him. What is he going to do to make them give 110% in the dog fight that is the Championship?  We have been in a relegation fight and the players should be running through brick walls for him, why aren’t they? Is too soft, is he just one of the lads and they don’t respect him. He threw the towel in against Man Utd, how can the players respect him after that?

He did a miraculous job during the 10/12 game spell to get us up, but I honestly believe he fell upon a winning formula helped in the main by Jack’s return and having some of the best players in the division at his disposal. Let’s not forget the dozen or so games prior to that when we were absolute dog shit. I also recall there several people then saying the players weren’t good enough.

For me there has been far more bad than good under Smith and that is why we need to go our separate ways and have a fresh start. I fear if we keep him it will be more of the same next season and he’ll get the bullet around Nov/Dec and we’ll have wasted another season in the Championship. 

I am inclined to (partially) agree. One the one hand a believe Smith might have the qualities to achieve another promotion. 9n the other hand, given the imminent relegation he would have to sort things right immediately. I poor start would see the fans turn immediately, a sack and a new appointment would follow, we would need to appoint a new manager, with less choice than in the summer, and having wasted a pre-season ans a transfer window. 

So purely for pragmatical reasons I would have him sacked. Keeping him would be very risky

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, Reivax_Villa said:

Valid points made.

The question mark is the winning run last season.

He struggled until Grealish came back into the side and throughout the run Grealish literally dragged us through to the play offs.

Without Grealish next season, do you still think that he can get this club promoted again?

Yes Grealish more than anyone galvanised the team and although hes been crap since the comeback he was the reason we were still in a position to get ourselves out of trouble. 

[PaulC]

Just now, WooJung said:

I am inclined to (partially) agree. One the one hand a believe Smith might have the qualities to achieve another promotion. 9n the other hand, given the imminent relegation he would have to sort things right immediately. I poor start would see the fans turn immediately, a sack and a new appointment would follow, we would need to appoint a new manager, with less choice than in the summer, and having wasted a pre-season ans a transfer window. 

So purely for pragmatical reasons I would have him sacked. Keeping him would be very risky

Yes no-one would except a bad start next season. 

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, useless said:

If someone was to say to me Villa can stay in the premier league next season and you have two choices, either Sheffield United current squad all signing for Villa with Dean Smith as manager, or keeping the squad we have now but with Wilder managing them, I think I'd choose our current squad and Wilder.

That's a good point I think.

If Wilder got poached and for some reason they went for Dean Smith I imagine he'd stick with 3-5-2 for a bit but they'd lose intensity as it wouldn't be as well structured as they've got it under Wilder then he'd switched to his more favoured 4-3-3 and they'd all struggle to adapt.

Whichever way you analyse things Wilder has been far more successful implementing his system v premier league teams than DS has been.

There are other things than formations though. I bet if you looked at the average time both teams make their first two subs Sheffield would be around 55-60th minute while we we would be 60-65th minute. All season long Dean has been painfully slow making subs to freshen things up when we're been winning or losing. Was hoping he'd improve in that regard as the season went on but it simply hasn't happened. Against Chelsea they made a double change in the 55th minute and we did nothing to counter that, five minutes later we were 2-1 down. Even the other night we only put anyone on at 3-0 down.

Unless he improves that he's never going to be a decent premier league manager for anyone.

[jim]

10 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Unless he improves that he's never going to be a decent premier league manager for anyone.

I don’t think we’ll ever see him in the Premier League again after he leaves us. 

[VillaChris]

1 minute ago, jim said:

I don’t think we’ll ever see him in the Premier League again after he leaves us. 

Yeah it's rare a manager who gets relegated gets another job in premier league. Someone like Warnock usually only gets one when he actually takes the team up. Eddie Howe will probably struggle to get another premier league job and he's far more proven in premier league than DS.

I think Derby would be a good fit for him although Cocu is doing better now so that job probably wouldn't come up for a while. Will be linked with Sheff Weds when that is next available as he used to play for them and perhaps if we let him go straight after the final game he might be an option for Bristol City if that' job is still available.

Ultimately he's going to have to do what he achieved here, promote a club into premier league to get another chance but that's the same for vast majority of british coaches bar rare exceptions like Lampard.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

I agree it’s a gamble. My view was that he did very well last year and has delivered about what I thought this squad was capable of this year but wasn’t able to get anything extra out of them

TRO, it’s fine margins! I’m just coming down on the side of giving him the start of next season. Your call may be different. 

If we could attract a Rafa-type I’d help Dean pack up his desk but if we are changing for very similar I’d rather see what Dean has learnt about his players this time round

Not intended as a ‘gotcha’, but just curious, what type of name would fit your criteria as a ‘universally accepted prospect’

I genuinely don't know......I would never have chosen Ron Saunders, so what do I know.

I think it has to be someone who has a decent win ratio, has charisma and presence.

unless you are in that interview its hard to say.

but I have minimal confidence that we would get the next one right.....unless there is a concerted effort to do so and the club move mountains.

I guess, Biesla and Nuno were brave appointments, but i had never heard of them.....there is a lot of luck involved and plenty of shrewd decisions.

[Nabby]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I genuinely don't know......I would never have chosen Ron Saunders, so what do I know.

I think it has to be someone who has a decent win ratio, has charisma and presence.

unless you are in that interview its hard to say.

but I have minimal confidence that we would get the next one right.....unless there is a concerted effort to do so and the club move mountains.

I guess, Biesla and Nuno were brave appointments, but i had never heard of them.....there is a lot of luck involved and plenty of shrewd decisions.

Nuno was the 3rd manger at Wolves under new owners IIRC so it is tough to get it right 

[Zatman]

One of the managers was Lambert as well

[VillaCas]

6 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Did you think we would be relegated with a whimper?

I thought it was a real possibility, yes. I said repeatedly that we should be happy if we got 17th place.