VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 35 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said: Out of curiosity.. what qualities have you seen from Dean Smith that gives you confidence moving forward? Last season he took over a disjointed outfit in 14th place and turned them round with a record-breaking run including some of the best football seen at VP for years and culminating with a brilliant cup final victory This season in the toughest league in the world we are arguably (without Abraham and Axel) worse than last season, but certainly no better, we have struggled. At times Smith has struggled to and I hope and expect he is wiser for it. He has already proved he can perform in the Championship and should he bring us straight back up I believe he will be a better manager next time round We have performed almost exactly as I thought we would after witnessing the transfer window last summer 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said: Smith didn’t build the team at Brentford Agreed. Same at Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Last season he took over a disjointed outfit in 14th place and turned them round with a record-breaking run including some of the best football seen at VP for years and culminating with a brilliant cup final victory This season in the toughest league in the world we are arguably (without Abraham and Axel) worse than last season, but certainly no better, we have struggled. At times Smith has struggled to and I hope and expect he is wiser for it. He has already proved he can perform in the Championship and should he bring us straight back up I believe he will be a better manager next time round We have performed almost exactly as I thought we would after witnessing the transfer window last summer This!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Last season he took over a disjointed outfit in 14th place and turned them round with a record-breaking run including some of the best football seen at VP for years and culminating with a brilliant cup final victory This season in the toughest league in the world we are arguably (without Abraham and Axel) worse than last season, but certainly no better, we have struggled. At times Smith has struggled to and I hope and expect he is wiser for it. He has already proved he can perform in the Championship and should he bring us straight back up I believe he will be a better manager next time round We have performed almost exactly as I thought we would after witnessing the transfer window last summer Valid points made. The question mark is the winning run last season. He struggled until Grealish came back into the side and throughout the run Grealish literally dragged us through to the play offs. Without Grealish next season, do you still think that he can get this club promoted again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, TRO said: It depends what is meant by better and in what context......Chris Wilder has made them better, that is at the heart of the very point. The highlight is with the attitude and physical endeavour, that is central to their success....Their team bar one or two was less expensive to construct than ours, but they went after certain types to fit the vision, they had......they will add quality, bit by bit, trying not to disrupt the high energy and intensity, which is the cornerstone of their philosophy. they were not bought better players, they have been made better players....Chris Wilder is a winner and that is reflective in his overall career win ratio, despite that being mostly in the lower divisions...He has a clear view of what is required from limited talent, to make a mark. He cannot match the big boys for talent.....so he makes up for it, with attitude, desire, will and combative spirit...everyone thought it would blow up, but its not built on sand, its built on solid values of 110% work rate........now where have i heard that before? Wilder has done great at Sheffield Utd. They’ve been extraordinarily good this year. I didn’t expect that they would be able to maintain this form. I hope they fall flat on their faces next season ( I hope that for every team except the Villa TBF) I know Wilder has a lot of respect for Dean. I wonder what his view of the overwhelming criticism here would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 30 minutes ago, VillaCas said: No. I said the it was Purslow who set the policy that we would no longer use loan players It is also Purslow I suspect who favoured ‘projects’ over experience. Purslow and Suso carry the blame for a sizeable proportion of the recruitment which has been by far our biggest problem. I am not privy to how much blame Smith carries for this - if he was central to it then it is right he will be sacked. I don’t think that will happen. We will see Yeah....a classic case of a CEO trying to be clever and ending up on his arse, where have we seen that before. However, I too do not know enough of the detail of the signings to aportion blame....but surely a manager who is responsible for results should holler if he thinks he is being hung out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Reivax_Villa said: Valid points made. The question mark is the winning run last season. He struggled until Grealish came back into the side and throughout the run Grealish literally dragged us through to the play offs. Without Grealish next season, do you still think that he can get this club promoted again? Grealish was absolutely the catalyst for our success and I think he is exceptional ( I hate the criticism he gets - it looks to me that he is trying almost too hard). But yes I think we can be successful without him next year ( dependant on a much better window than this year ) Look, I understand that I’m much more patient than many (most) - I looked at the squad in the summer and thought we would have a real job on our hands to stay up? I didn’t think that Smith had a strong hand to play We are almost certain to go down now. I would rather wait and see if Smith has gained knowledge as a manager and of his players and give him the first ten(?) games. I’d rather do that than roll the dice again and bring in Chris Hughton or similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Wilder has done great at Sheffield Utd. They’ve been extraordinarily good this year. I didn’t expect that they would be able to maintain this form. I hope they fall flat on their faces next season ( I hope that for every team except the Villa TBF) I know Wilder has a lot of respect for Dean. I wonder what his view of the overwhelming criticism here would be. Well Dean had a lot of respect for Bruce, but don't know where thats going. They(sheff utd) have been extraordinarily good every year Wilder has been there. Well, I was expecting a similar response to our performances and results as Wilder has got.....I thought Dean could do that on the back of that great run and that he turned things around, but sadly, it has got gradually worse. No one wanted to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Grealish was absolutely the catalyst for our success and I think he is exceptional ( I hate the criticism he gets - it looks to me that he is trying almost too hard). But yes I think we can be successful without him next year ( dependant on a much better window than this year ) Look, I understand that I’m much more patient than many (most) - I looked at the squad in the summer and thought we would have a real job on our hands to stay up? I didn’t think that Smith had a strong hand to play We are almost certain to go down now. I would rather wait and see if Smith has gained knowledge as a manager and of his players and give him the first ten(?) games. I’d rather do that than roll the dice again and bring in Chris Hughton or similar Yeah I understand your point. You have made some good points tbf. 10 games in the championship are critical especially if we want to gain automatic promotion against the likes of Norwich, Brentford,Fulham,Bournemouth ect. We need to hit the ground running. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 I suppose and would hope if Smith stays for an assault on the Championship then he might learn from his experiences. Burnley went down under Dyche and came back stronger, the resilience they have shown is commendable and with a relatively low budget. I keep hearing about a five-year plan, maybe Dean Smith is here to stay for some time yet? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, TRO said: Yeah....a classic case of a CEO trying to be clever and ending up on his arse, where have we seen that before. However, I too do not know enough of the detail of the signings to aportion blame....but surely a manager who is responsible for results should holler if he thinks he is being hung out to dry. TRO I agree but I think the problem with the DofF model is that managers don’t know what they’ve got until after the player is on our books ”I’ve signed you this brilliant winger, he’s ripping up the (insert obscure country here) league, he’s got it all” but you only really know what you've got when you see him on the training ground. I said in the summer that our squad was not going to be competitive in the PL - this for me was the biggest problem by far. If people think there is lots more to be got out of the squad then fair enough I don’t think so We needed a dominant CB to play alongside Mings and a powerful DMF to anchor the team. Both preferably with a bit of experience If it was Smiths fault he should go. I think the club will see this as Susos fault. We will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Grealish was absolutely the catalyst for our success and I think he is exceptional ( I hate the criticism he gets - it looks to me that he is trying almost too hard). But yes I think we can be successful without him next year ( dependant on a much better window than this year ) Look, I understand that I’m much more patient than many (most) - I looked at the squad in the summer and thought we would have a real job on our hands to stay up? I didn’t think that Smith had a strong hand to play We are almost certain to go down now. I would rather wait and see if Smith has gained knowledge as a manager and of his players and give him the first ten(?) games. I’d rather do that than roll the dice again and bring in Chris Hughton or similar The problem with that is.....if it turns out badly, like with Bruce, it gives the new manager a mountain to climb and another get out of jail card, if we fail.....the players are more likely to be soured by this season and lose belief in him. If he succeeds and gets us up again, he will face the same league again, that he failed miserably with this season, his fault or not. We are holding on to a lot of hope, that he has learnt anything, if we get it wrong again it is a huge set back once again. Every new manager is a gamble......but we have to lower the odds of that gamble, by appointing a universally accepted prospect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 See a part of me still thinks Smith does what he's told and that's that. Obviously I'd hope that wasn't the case! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, VillaCas said: TRO I agree but I think the problem with the DofF model is that managers don’t know what they’ve got until after the player is on our books ”I’ve signed you this brilliant winger, he’s ripping up the (insert obscure country here) league, he’s got it all” but you only really know what you've got when you see him on the training ground. I said in the summer that our squad was not going to be competitive in the PL - this for me was the biggest problem by far. If people think there is lots more to be got out of the squad then fair enough I don’t think so We needed a dominant CB to play alongside Mings and a powerful DMF to anchor the team. Both preferably with a bit of experience If it was Smiths fault he should go. I think the club will see this as Susos fault. We will see I agree about CDM....I think Nakamba and Drinkwater was meant to be that player....not for me. Good centre back too. i am disappointed in the 3 wingers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, TRO said: The problem with that is.....if it turns out badly, like with Bruce, it gives the new manager a mountain to climb and another get out of jail card, if we fail.....the players are more likely to be soured by this season and lose belief in him. If he succeeds and gets us up again, he will face the same league again, that he failed miserably with this season, his fault or not. We are holding on to a lot of hope, that he has learnt anything, if we get it wrong again it is a huge set back once again. Every new manager is a gamble......but we have to lower the odds of that gamble, by appointing a universally accepted prospect. I agree it’s a gamble. My view was that he did very well last year and has delivered about what I thought this squad was capable of this year but wasn’t able to get anything extra out of them TRO, it’s fine margins! I’m just coming down on the side of giving him the start of next season. Your call may be different. If we could attract a Rafa-type I’d help Dean pack up his desk but if we are changing for very similar I’d rather see what Dean has learnt about his players this time round Not intended as a ‘gotcha’, but just curious, what type of name would fit your criteria as a ‘universally accepted prospect’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree about CDM....I think Nakamba and Drinkwater was meant to be that player....not for me. Good centre back too. i am disappointed in the 3 wingers too. It’s a shame about Drinkwater. I do think it was a chance worth taking and he was so close to being the answer.....ultimately the bloke had his demons and let himself and the team down. If he had been without problems we wouldn’t have got him. Nakamba could easily become a good PL player but he needs to be fitter and stronger.....a couple of years too soon for him? We were linked with SantaMaria(?) he looked a real unit. If only Edited July 11, 2020 by VillaCas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Bazmonkey said: Why don't sheff utd have better players. I keep hearing we have better players than Sheffield utd...watford...bournemouth What are we basing this on? because they play for Sheffield United and not Aston Villa thats all I can assume. Our current team Henderson, Egan, O'Connell, Baldock, Stevens(Villa reject) Fleck, Norwood, McGoldrick, Berge, Lundstram, Billy Sharp and even Jagielka all get in our team. Probably missing a couple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: Agreed. Same at Villa I dont believe this for a second. He did have a input. Maybe some were suso but he contributed to assembling this woeful team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 As for the debate here the other day about Frank Lampard, is he really doing a better job than Dean Smith. Chelsea have conceded more goals, win less games and lost 4 more games than last season and cant reach the same points total as last season but apparently some on here think he is doing a great job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDVILLAIN Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zatman said: As for the debate here the other day about Frank Lampard, is he really doing a better job than Dean Smith. Chelsea have conceded more goals, win less games and lost 4 more games than last season and cant reach the same points total as last season but apparently some on here think he is doing a great job Only difference is that we are going to be relegated and chelsea are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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