TRO Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dave-R said: Almost as if we recruited for relegation as well as survival like we went between both leagues making a play for one or the other instead of going all out on survival and signing for survival alone. I look at Jordan Henderson as an example. would we ever contemplate signing a player like that......No, we as a club do not see a need for a player like that.....I would be gob smacked if we pursued a specialist midfielder who plays like him......we don't see them as an easy player to sell, if it doesn't work out.......I just don't get the thinking......its like we recruit, half/ expecting failure. I am not saying as good as him,but a type, that does that job.......We are simply flawed in our thinking. Edited July 9, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I look at Dean Henderson as an example. would we ever contemplate signing a player like that......No, we as a club do not see a need for a player like that.....I would be gob smacked if we pursued a specialist midfielder who plays like him......we don't see them as an easy player to sell, if it doesn't work out.......I just don't get the thinking......its like we recruit expecting failure. I am not saying as good as him,but a type, that does that job.......We are simply flawed in our thinking. Dean Henderson? The keeper? When has he played in midfield? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: Dean Henderson? The keeper? When has he played in midfield? Oops.....I meant Jordan....thanks. that was watching the Wolves v Sheff Utd game.....senior moment. Edited July 9, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Just now, TRO said: Oops.....I meant Jordan....thanks I remember Liverpool were widely criticised and Henderson was mocked for the first couple of years. He took time to settle in at Liverpool... Our players are never afforded any time at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 19 minutes ago, TRO said: I look at Jordan Henderson as an example. would we ever contemplate signing a player like that......No, we as a club do not see a need for a player like that.....I would be gob smacked if we pursued a specialist midfielder who plays like him......we don't see them as an easy player to sell, if it doesn't work out.......I just don't get the thinking......its like we recruit expecting failure. I am not saying as good as him,but a type, that does that job.......We are simply flawed in our thinking. We had Idrissa Gueye not so long ago As for Henderson he is a converted attacking midfielder as thats what Liverpool signed him as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: I remember Liverpool were widely criticised and Henderson was mocked for the first couple of years. He took time to settle in at Liverpool... Our players are never afforded any time at all. I accept the "time" argument....with reservations. but you have to get things right along the way to "earn" time. Time is the backdrop to fine tuning improvement.......The hard core substance has to be achieved much sooner. It is rare for a club to give unconditional "time" to a manager, without tangible reason......they have to see things along the way to suggest all the actions ( i.e trainng ground work .....will improve with time.....or it just becomes a cop out. Edited July 9, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, TRO said: I look at Dean Henderson as an example. would we ever contemplate signing a player like that......No, we as a club do not see a need for a player like that.....I would be gob smacked if we pursued a specialist midfielder who plays like him......we don't see them as an easy player to sell, if it doesn't work out.......I just don't get the thinking......its like we recruit expecting failure. I am not saying as good as him,but a type, that does that job.......We are simply flawed in our thinking. Agree with you there, we have recruited poorly. What I do not get is the Owners said they had ambition to see Villa as one of the best but how can that be with the signings we have made. Those signings give or take one or two have absolutely made us look weaker in ambition. Like you say TRO why sign players who will sell on for a lot yet play bad on the pitch, it makes no sense, shouldn't that come afterwards?? Should we not prioritise making the team strong just as we should prioritise survival by playing smart sensible football, it seems like everything we do is the wrong way round. I'm often concerned that when Edans spoke of how successful his Bucks team was in terms of signings and the data will be copied to Villa and mirrored that they have completely got it all wrong. For one a basketball team is a totally different sport and data will come off different and two gameplay stats are totally different so really the outcomes are two totally different sets of data. If they have mirrored the way they sign for the Bucks then no wonder why we have failed to hit a run in football as you can not translate one sports data to another. I think we the fans deserve explanations from the Owners and those who have cocked it up move on and our Owners start to get serious, the ambition they speak about is not there yet and by looks of it, it's a long way off. Here's to round two of trying to get back into the premier, I would go bonkers if they tried bringing in the same messy type of players if we got back into the premier next season or anytime soon. There has to be a learning process and i think this was it, next time its time to make sure we have learnt from these mediocre signings, go serious and buy from our own leagues unless of course the homework has thoroughly been done on foreign players (Which I doubt it had been done). We screwed up on every level on our return to the top flight that we are now a laughing stock unless of course we pull a miracle off, which I'm sorry I have no hope of us making come true. If the lads can make a great escape happen then hats of to them but many do not deserve to be here still if we survive. I'd expect us to serious throw money at our forward lines, bring in a new LB, CB and couple of very good midfielders, I think we're looking at least at another eight players joining us next season if we survive, a lot more if we fall. Edited July 9, 2020 by Dave-R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Just now, TRO said: I accept the "time" argument. but you have to get things right along the way to "earn" time. Time is the backdrop to fine tuning improvement.......The hard core substance has to be achieved much sooner. It is rare for a club to give unconditional "time" to a manager, without tangible reason......they have to see things along the way to suggest all the actions ( i.e trainng ground work .....will improve with time.....or it just becomes a cop out Wasn't even talking about the manager. Was using the Henderson example as an example towards our players. Would Henderson been given the time to develop here the way he has at Liverpool? By the fans? Westwood has told of how toxic the fans can be. He's now playing in a top 10 premier league side whilst we sit staring relegation in the face. Many, many players are written off here, at this club by fans, far too soon. I look at some of our squad and think some of them could develop with time. Nakamba, Konsa, targett, guilbert a few examples. I see these players on lists of players that people want sold. Written off in 3/4 of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: We had Idrissa Gueye not so long ago As for Henderson he is a converted attacking midfielder as thats what Liverpool signed him as Oh I guess like Fernandinho, sometimes plays centre back. Was Viera signed as something else too or Makalele or Essien I was hoping you would get my point....I made one example, it was not limited to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dave-R said: Agree with you there, we have recruited poorly. What I do not get is the Owners said they had ambition to see Villa as one of the best but how can that be with the signings we have made. Those signings give or take one or two have absolutely made us look weaker in ambition. Like you say TRO why sign players who will sell on for a lot yet play bad on the pitch, it makes no sense, shouldn't that come afterwards?? Should we not prioritise making the team strong just as we should prioritise survival by playing smart sensible football, it seems like everything we do is the wrong way round. I'm often concerned that when Edans spoke of how successful his Bucks team was in terms of signings and the data will be copied to Villa and mirrored that they have completely got it all wrong. For one a basketball team is a totally different sport and data will come off different and two gameplay stats are totally different so really the outcomes are two totally different sets of data. If they have mirrored the way they sign for the Bucks then no wonder why we have failed to hit a run in football as you can not translate one sports data to another. I think we the fans deserve explanations from the Owners and those who have cocked it up move on and our Owners start to get serious, the ambition they speak about is not there yet and by looks of it, it's a long way off. He's to round two of trying to get back into the premier, I would go bonkers if they tried bringing in the same messy type of players if we got back into the premier ext season or amytime soon. There has to be a learning process and i think this was it, next time its time to make sure we have learnt from these mediocre signings, go serious and buy from our own leagues unless of course the homework has thoroughly been done on foreign players (Which I doubt it had been done). We screwed up on every level on our return to the top flight that we are now a laughing stock unless of course we pull a miracle off, which I'm sorry I have no hope of us making come true. If the lads can make a great escape happen then hats of to them but many do not deserve to be here still if we survive. I'd expect us to serious throw money at our forward lines, bring in a new LB, CB and couple of very good midfielders, I think we're looking at least at another eight players joining us next season if we survive, a lot more if we fall. I wouldn't buy one more player.....unless the club can be reasonably sure of the player return.....we know there are no guarantee's but there are degree's of likely success. we cannot continue in signing the AMOUNT of players, we are getting next to nothing from....it has to be addressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, TRO said: Oh I guess like Fernandinho, sometimes plays centre back. Was Viera signed as something else too or Makalele or Essien I was hoping you would get my point....I made one example, it was not limited to one. I don't think i get your point at all. Makelele played one position only and Vieira was always a centre midfielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: Would Henderson been given the time to develop here the way he has at Liverpool? By the fans? Westwood has told of how toxic the fans can be. He's now playing in a top 10 premier league side whilst we sit staring relegation in the face. Many, many players are written off here, at this club by fans, far too soon. I look at some of our squad and think some of them could develop with time. Nakamba, Konsa, targett, guilbert a few examples. I see these players on lists of players that people want sold. Written off in 3/4 of a season. The thing is that with a team like Liverpool,they can afford to give players lots of time to settle in because they continue to be a top team.Its hard to give a player time when you are struggling ( for whatever reason ) Even when Liverpool were not winning anything they still remained a top team,I dont think they even dropped as low as,say 7th.So a top team can give players time to develope,we are sadly not a top team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: The thing is that with a team like Liverpool,they can afford to give players lots of time to settle in because they continue to be a top team.Its hard to give a player time when you are struggling ( for whatever reason ) Even when Liverpool were not winning anything they still remained a top team,I dont think they even dropped as low as,say 7th.So a top team can give players time to develope,we are sadly not a top team. How come with Brighton last night, they talked about one or two players who had struggled when first joining, but have settled well now. Bissouma and propper were the players they talked about I think. They were given time. What's the 1 main difference? We built a whole squad in the summer. These teams were doing it over a number of years. And it's Smith bearing the flak right now for the short termism of a previous manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 You are talking about 1/2 players at Brighton.How many players are people talking about at Villa,nearly the whole squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Zatman said: People acting like 2 billionaires have allowed Purslow to run riot at Villa to boost his own ego and neglect the football club Some ridiculous posts in last few weeks but its near the top They are billionaires with very little football knowledge. If they can see that the recruitment policy is flawed and do something about it, either with or without Purslow then I would be more confident about our immediate and long term future. They've put good structures in place which we haven’t had for years and that’s very encouraging. Recruitment seems to be our most obvious problem and the most obvious person to blame would be Suso. If we continue with him then I’d seriously worry about Purslow and the owners. I’ve said lots of times that the entire club is relatively inexperienced football wise, particularly at this level. The owners come with a good CV but they’re learning on the job. I just hope they’re quick learners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Exactly. So glad he said that. Seems to me abit like he is blaming the players there. Yeah i get squad isnt great but the management has been awful as well If the board weren't expecting a relegation battle - one wonders what action they will take after relegation is confirmed ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 They have already said that they want Villa to be a top 4 team.I cant see how they are going to achieve that without an A-List manager ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: They have already said that they want Villa to be a top 4 team.I cant see how they are going to achieve that without an A-List manager ? Purslow wants a yes man he can control. We can forget about any high profile coaches with a big personality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Purslow wants a yes man he can control. We can forget about any high profile coaches with a big personality. You keep saying this as if it was true. Do you have any actual evidence, or is this your latest pile of shite? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Purslow wants a yes man he can control. We can forget about any high profile coaches with a big personality. that is my suspicion. 10 minutes ago, Mister_a said: You keep saying this as if it was true. Do you have any actual evidence, or is this your latest pile of shite? None of us know, its all opinions. you don't have to put IMO after every quote.....we all know its the posters opinion, unless unchallengeable facts are declared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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