Dean Smith

[hippo]

4 hours ago, jim said:

This.
 

I seem to recall there were many on here ridiculing Southampton for the appointment of Poch and they would almost certainly be relegated.

 

Yes but Southampton obviously have someone who can pull managerial rabbit s out of hats......

On the other hand we had a shortlist of Smith and Henry.

[useless]

Henry to Villa was just paper talk, when the papers were saying that we wanted him Smith had already had his interview. The papers were also linking us to Ralph Hasenhüttl, Paulo Fonseca and Rui Faria, but these names never get brought up when disccusing our owners ability to spot a good manager, the truth is were in the championship and part way through the season with a depleted squad that looked like it had little chance of promotion, so of course then it would have been hard to attract a bigger name.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

Hard to know where to start replying to this

- Smith is not Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho

- Responsibility for player recruitment sits in the main with Suso

- I didn’t expect more from the owners. I suspect that £140m was all that FFP would allow

- I certainly never suggested that the owners needed to buy 12 x £30m players - it’s ridiculous to say that

- The biggest chunk of funds was spent on retaining or replacing loanees and after spending around £80m I would argue that we were worse than the team that finished 5th in the championship (with Wesley and Engels being (far) worse than Tammy and Axel)

That left £60 to find replacements for Adomah, Jedi, Hutton etc. In this respect I think we got what we paid for Nakamba, Hause, Konsa, Trez, Luis etc IE very average run of the mill players

I repeat that £140m does not go a long way when spread over 15 players (Wolves have had the support of one of the world top agents to provide them with cut price bargains, Sheffield United have built a team over some years and are massively over performing (good luck to them))

I agree that we are poor talent spotters - Suso has not lived up to his billing

 

• i answered your claim, "managers don't have power now".....i mentioned the above 3
• you divied up £140 mill equally, how else is it to be interpreted....it doesn't work like that, you don't pay the same for every player.
• Wesley and Douglas came with very high reputations with  Engels & Nakamba being well rated.
• What Wolves have done, we could have done and the same with Sheff Utd, we make our bed and we have to lie on it......that is the very debate, our strategy is not working, theirs is.

We need to identify when we get things wrong and try to put them right.....not argue against it and pursue the same route.

could you honestly imagine a top manager being handed the players Dean has, without a whimper.....never.....he has been stuffed up like a turkey.....although, i still have a suspicion a serial winner, would have got more out of them.....he has to take some of the responsibility.

Edited June 29, 2020 by TRO

[DCJonah]

We couldn't have done what wolves have done. Otherwise every team would do it. 

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

We couldn't have done what wolves have done. Otherwise every team would do it. 

You could say that about every team, that has a modicum of success.

but in fact, we could have done what Wolves have done, its about making the right decisions and having the right contacts...how many failed businesses have had money, but spent it wrong, its about Savvy and nous.

whether its Wolves way or Sheff Utds way or Leicesters way.....they find a way of getting players to work out and secure points....they build balanced teams, their way....all 3 have strong willed managers to help do it.

sure teams get things wrong, just don't want us to be one of them, and we are.

in contrast, we have made the same old mistakes for years, over and over again.

........we was getting it wrong again after Saunders, until we appointed Graham Taylor, who transformed us.....we need a biggish personality to transform us again.....I suspect Sean Dyche.

Edited June 29, 2020 by TRO

[useless]

Even if Wolves were somehow to be relegated and lost all their best players they wouldn't be able to repeat what they did or at least not to the same degree, as there was a certain amount of luck involved with their success, that luck being that Mendes just happened to have the right players available, at the right moment and also the right manager, players that were too good for the championship but at the same time deemed not good enough for the top six or eight teams in the elite leagues so were obtainable for an ambitious championship side, and Nuno was of a similar stature at that point.

Or to put it another way if Mendes was to cut ties with Wolves and join forces with another championship team, he'd have difficulty repeating the success with that team. It's also worth remembering that he only helps Wolves to the extent that he does because Fosun own shares in his agency, that's why Fosun bought them in the first place, to make money moving and selling players.

 

[Tomaszk]

@TRO you'll be at Dyche's throat after six months in the job.

We'll be losing games in the Championship and doing nothing but kick it long and in the air. Actually...you liked that before Smith arrived I seem to recall 

Also, there's a team of about 10 analysts who at Liverpool who buy the players, Klopp doesn't do it. He may have a choice between two they give him, but he doesn't identify any players himself.

[Tomaszk]

Everyone keep you eyes on Forest next season as I think Mendes has a tie in there. 

If he decides to give them some good players, they'll be another team ahead of us inside two years.

[Zatman]

54 minutes ago, hippo said:

Yes but Southampton obviously have someone who can pull managerial rabbit s out of hats......

On the other hand we had a shortlist of Smith and Henry.

Only one person has ever mentioned that Henry was wanted by our board and that was you and have repeated multiple times  

Southampton were also in Premier League when made the changes

[messi11]

Image if Dean Smith keeps us up and achieved this in his first full season:

1) Promotion 
2) 1 Cup Final
3) Kept Villa in the Premier League 

 

Shame on you for wanting him gone

Edited June 29, 2020 by messi11

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

 

Also, there's a team of about 10 analysts who at Liverpool who buy the players, Klopp doesn't do it. He may have a choice between two they give him, but he doesn't identify any players himself.

Its well known Edwards runs most of the background work at Liverpool, City are ran by the old Barca crew as well. Klopp and Pep have a say but not final say

[useless]

Forest have already had  Mendes helping them. But unless he happens to have a bunch of players as good as Costa, Cavaleiro, Jota, Neves, Boly and so on available, or manager as good as Nuno available, and who all also happen to be prepared to play in the championship, then whilst they might do well in the coming season, I doubt it will be from doing a Wolves.

Edit: It seems it was last year that they had a bunch of his players, but all but one of them has returned, didn't work out.

Edited June 29, 2020 by useless

[VillaCas]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

• i answered your claim, "managers don't have power now".....i mentioned the above 3
• you divied up £140 mill equally, how else is it to be interpreted....it doesn't work like that, you don't pay the same for every player.
• Wesley and Douglas came with very high reputations with  Engels & Nakamba being well rated.
• What Wolves have done, we could have done and the same with Sheff Utd, we make our bed and we have to lie on it......that is the very debate, our strategy is not working, theirs is.

We need to identify when we get things wrong and try to put them right.....not argue against it and pursue the same route.

could you honestly imagine a top manager being handed the players Dean has, without a whimper.....never.....he has been stuffed up like a turkey.....although, i still have a suspicion a serial winner, would have got more out of them.....he has to take some of the responsibility.

- as I said Smith is not Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho - had he insisted on total control he wouldn’t be in the job. Like the vast majority of PL managers including those you mention, he has to work within a structure

- show me where I ‘divided the £140m equally”? I didn’t!  I merely said £140m across 15 players does not buy you a PL squad

 - I guess a lot of your next point rest on what you mean by ‘very high reputations’ and ‘well rated’, personally I’d never heard of them and have not been at all impressed. For me these were not players who were going to hit the ground running in the PL

...but if we go with your ‘highly-rated’ line then how has DS been ‘stuffed up like a turkey’ if they are such great talents

By your reckoning he is either underachieving with good players or not been strong enough rejecting bad players....which is it - you can’t have both sides of the argument

- I would expect a serial winner (Klopp?, Guardiola? Mourinho?) to get more out of our players - those managers are with top clubs because they are at the top of the tree - those managers ain’t coming to Villa anytime soon

- finally, DS must bear some of the responsibility but in terms of recruitment the lions share sits with Suso

The biggest part of the problem is that we overachieved last season - we came up with Bruce’s ageing and unbalanced squad and needed to make far more changes than is optimum. I was delighted to get promoted but realised that in the long run it may have been better to come up a year later with a better prepared and more balanced squad.

As it is we will probably go down but I hope that lessons have been learned and we will build a much more balanced and competent squad for our next assault on the Premier League

 

 

[MrBlack]

23 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

- as I said Smith is not Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho - had he insisted on total control he wouldn’t be in the job. Like the vast majority of PL managers including those you mention, he has to work within a structure

- show me where I ‘divided the £140m equally”? I didn’t!  I merely said £140m across 15 players does not buy you a PL squad

 - I guess a lot of your next point rest on what you mean by ‘very high reputations’ and ‘well rated’, personally I’d never heard of them and have not been at all impressed. For me these were not players who were going to hit the ground running in the PL

...but if we go with your ‘highly-rated’ line then how has DS been ‘stuffed up like a turkey’ if they are such great talents

By your reckoning he is either underachieving with good players or not been strong enough rejecting bad players....which is it - you can’t have both sides of the argument

- I would expect a serial winner (Klopp?, Guardiola? Mourinho?) to get more out of our players - those managers are with top clubs because they are at the top of the tree - those managers ain’t coming to Villa anytime soon

- finally, DS must bear some of the responsibility but in terms of recruitment the lions share sits with Suso

The biggest part of the problem is that we overachieved last season - we came up with Bruce’s ageing and unbalanced squad and needed to make far more changes than is optimum. I was delighted to get promoted but realised that in the long run it may have been better to come up a year later with a better prepared and more balanced squad.

As it is we will probably go down but I hope that lessons have been learned and we will build a much more balanced and competent squad for our next assault on the Premier League

 

 

These are my thoughts also, albeit put far more eloquently.  We probably over achieved last year, we may be under achieving this year. Dean can take major credit for the former as it wasn't his squad and he was the only difference between us being crap and not. 

He takes partial credit for the latter given the management structure we have in place with regards to signing players.  Had we been a success this season Dean would again have only been partially responsible.

The only evidence we have is to say that he got a poor team playing well last season. We can't be sure if the players we have this season are capable or not, but evidence suggests not,  and I'm not inclined to solely blame Smith for that. 

Just wish he wouldn't wait until 70 minutes to make changes when we're losing.

[tinker]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

We’d have a good squad for the champ

As it stands today , without Grealish , we just dont have the squad to come back up, maybe midtable. The weakness we have in the premier league would be further exposed in the championship, our lack of confidence and willingness to fight tooth and nail for each other and every point is a weakness that would transcend leagues. 

[Stevo985]

Just now, tinker said:

As it stands today , without Grealish , we just dont have the squad to come back up, maybe midtable. 

We do. Plus we'd have £100m+ to spend because we'd lose McGinn and Mings as well to add the few quality Championship players we'd need. We'd have one of the best squads in the league. If not the best.

1 minute ago, tinker said:

 The weakness we have in the premier league would be further exposed in the championship

I disagree. The Premier League is a far far superior league. What weaknesses would be exposed further in the Championship than the Prem?
I don't get that.

 

[tinker]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

we'd lose McGinn and Mings 

 

Who would we have left that is any good? Douglas , who's been good since lockdown ended but was unreliable before. I just cant see this squad having the character or talent to compete in the championship . Plus there would be a long que of players wanting to jump ship , Douglas would be one of them , Heaton. Engels has been treated badly , Trez,  Elgahzi.

Davies looks our most useful striker atm. £100m will cover wages and ffp rules, there would be no spending to that extent.

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, tinker said:

As it stands today , without Grealish , we just dont have the squad to come back up, maybe midtable. The weakness we have in the premier league would be further exposed in the championship, our lack of confidence and willingness to fight tooth and nail for each other and every point is a weakness that would transcend leagues. 

the mistakes our defenders made was similar to last season and we were barely punished. Look at the strikers from our last game in Championship vs 1st game in Premier League. Harry Kane took his chances, Jack Marriott and Martyn Waghorn would need about 6 to take advantage

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, tinker said:

Who would we have left that is any good? Douglas , who's been good since lockdown ended but was unreliable before. I just cant see this squad having the character or talent to compete in the championship . Plus there would be a long que of players wanting to jump ship , Douglas would be one of them , Heaton. Engels has been treated badly , Trez,  Elgahzi.

Davies looks our most useful striker atm. £100m will cover wages and ffp rules, there would be no spending to that extent.

I think most of the squad we have now would be decent at that level. You forget the drop in quality. Jota is a very good player in the Championship and dog shit in the prem. El Ghazi looked great in the champ, sit in the prem. Hause, Konsa, Targett, Guilbert, Wesley, Samatta, Steer... these are all good Championship players. I also think there's a chance McGinn would stay given his injury and being out of the shop window. Which is less money to spend but a superb player at that level.

£100m is a start. Then we have parachute payments. No spiralling debts like last time. FFP is suspended because of Covid. 

 

Maybe I'm just massively wrong, but I don't understand why people can't see how much stronger our position would be if we went down this time compared to last time. it's night and day. We're already sitting on a good championship squad and I don't think we'll lose many players. And the ones we do lose will give us an absolute fortune at Championship level to spend.

[Dave-R]

2 hours ago, useless said:

Even if Wolves were somehow to be relegated and lost all their best players they wouldn't be able to repeat what they did or at least not to the same degree, as there was a certain amount of luck involved with their success, that luck being that Mendes just happened to have the right players available, at the right moment and also the right manager, players that were too good for the championship but at the same time deemed not good enough for the top six or eight teams in the elite leagues so were obtainable for an ambitious championship side, and Nuno was of a similar stature at that point.

Or to put it another way if Mendes was to cut ties with Wolves and join forces with another championship team, he'd have difficulty repeating the success with that team. It's also worth remembering that he only helps Wolves to the extent that he does because Fosun own shares in his agency, that's why Fosun bought them in the first place, to make money moving and selling players.

 

I think there is alot of truth in what you say. Its all alright spending lots of mills but if the right type of players for that certain style your trying to play are not available at that time in that transfer window, insure is going to be a struggle.

So in our case we have no super agent, we sure seem to have very amateur scouts who have not done there job properly, Coaches that have not brought the best out of the players, but that can also be down to those players are not good enough or have not had even a season together.

Since restart, despite draws and losses, I must say we have been better, I think we have, maybe been a few mess ups along the way but the scoreline suggest something has improved defensively because the goals leaked by us have been kept to a minimum, have they not??  It's even noticeable that Luiz has found himself a new way of playing and he has aided in someone finally controlling the middle of the park. Traore should of dominated us, he had one moment of brilliance, Douglas was that man that that for Traores time on the field, Luiz kind of shut him out on everything. I think the real test on the field is Liverpool if we can somehow make a low scoreline happen and show we can collect, intercept and shut them our centrally and defensively and move the ball forward, would show that things are definitely improving.

I dont know what people expected from a wolves game, they are up the ladder for a reason and for a good amount of reasons. II'm from wolves, yet I'm a villa fan and it breaks my heart to know home town is beating us, but I can see the reasons why. I think we played really well, just no knife edge, just a slippery sword which really does suggest its player quality or the right kind of player that is lacking at Villa.

What I want to know and I'm sure many do, is who the hell is going after these signings and who is signing Off on recruitment, that person/persons clearly has to go whoever it is.