Dean Smith

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You’ve only put Elmo has a miss because you don’t rate him. Must would say he was good business. 

Why is Grabban a miss? He was quality.

Grabban is a miss because well he did **** all in the play-offs which is why we signed him to get us goals in the big games

He also strolled through the play-off final as if a pre-season friendly

Edited November 5, 2018 by Zatman

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

I was one of the many that said that he must do more than is being made out. The signs look good at the moment, so let's just hope that leaving what he had a Brentford doesn't hinder him and our progress.

You're right in what you say about all clubs having a big team around the manager, but I think that Brentford's set-up is just uber-in-depth, to the point that most clubs and managers would probably think it's overkill. I'm sure they have a specific 'kicking coach', and coaches for other individual parts of the game like that. (Jumping coach? Who knows.... diving coach!)

Agreed. Smiths job at Brentford was no different to any other manager at any other club. 

Every manager will say to the board 'i want a left back that is good going forward'. The scouting department then go away, scout loads of attacking lefts backs, come back to the manager with their findings and a decision is made. 

The difference with Brentford to other clubs is how they go about that scouting. Some clubs will simply watch games, others will look more in depth into players characters, for all i know the Brentford lot may go rummaging through bins to see what the guys are eating for breakfast.

How the scouting department go about their business doesn't change the process of the manager though, he will still be putting names forward and having a input into who comes through the door. 

The idea that a very good Brentford set up devalued the part Smith played in it always seemed pretty potty to me. 

[Guest av1]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bruce didn’t do too bad in the transfer market if we got promoted. But as he even admitted himself he had to build it all again in the summer and he wasn’t able to do it. 

 

There in lies the problem. 

Over the next couple of windows the squad needs another rebuild due to the amount of loans in the squad, It's short term thinking. A couple of loans is ok, but you can't be in a postion where you are constantly faced with a rebuild, and then use that as an excuse for poor results. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, av1 said:

There in lies the problem. 

Over the next couple of windows the squad needs another rebuild due to the amount of loans in the squad, It's short term thinking. A couple of loans is ok, but you can't be in a postion where you are constantly faced with a rebuild, and then use that as an excuse for poor results. 

We had no money left though. Bruce and the whole previous board were as s**t as each other. 

[choffer]

4 minutes ago, av1 said:

The idea that a very good Brentford set up devalued the part Smith played in it always seemed pretty potty to me. 

I'm not sure I've seen anyone say this on here but I'm increasingly seeing it being quoted as fact.

Not a pop at you @av1, just using your post as a jumping-off point.

Given my regular attendance at Brentford over the last few years, I was keen to offer my insight when Smith was first suggested in the potential new managers thread (about a year ago?).  My feelings then were that it was very difficult to tell how good he'd be for us given the unique set-up at Brentford. I suppose you could say the same of any manager at any club and there's been countless stories of someone being successful at one club and then flopping at another. 

The amount to which Brentford is unique** is of course subjective but the model upon which they continue to out-perform is based on the sum being greater than the parts. I've seen several posts about how people were saying he wouldn't succeed without the "Brentford machine" and I really don't recall seeing anyone saying this, rather that it was difficult to tell how he would do without the support network he had at Brentford. 

(**There is a long twitter thread from a few months ago which outlines how Brentford do things differently from most - I'll try and dig it out later as I think most casual observers don't necessarily know much about the club other than the pub on every corner thing).

 

Either way, it's great to see that Deano is in fact doing well and the team are already playing with more of a shape, a recognisable style and that results are already improving.

[westholmevillan]

2 hours ago, Rob182 said:

I was one of the many that said that he must do more than is being made out. The signs look good at the moment, so let's just hope that leaving what he had a Brentford doesn't hinder him and our progress.

You're right in what you say about all clubs having a big team around the manager, but I think that Brentford's set-up is just uber-in-depth, to the point that most clubs and managers would probably think it's overkill. I'm sure they have a specific 'kicking coach', and coaches for other individual parts of the game like that. (Jumping coach? Who knows.... diving coach!)

Dont need a 'diving coach'....Grealish is just fine without one!

[westholmevillan]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You’ve only put Elmo has a miss because you don’t rate him. Must would say he was good business. 

Why is Grabban a miss? He was quality.

I would take Grabban over Kodjia all day long!

[AntrimBlack]

22 hours ago, Dave-R said:

We all know the mess bruce left us in, but we will pull through it under DS. I just feel sorry for whichever team gets bruce next, maybe the sheffield Wednesday fans who are calling for the club to get bruce will heed my warning lol..

Next week bruce maybe back in the championship, which I would love because I would love to see how we play against his team, I'd expect DS and co to hand out a thrashing, I certainly hope our players would be excited for that game..

I am no longer bothered about Bruce's future career or where we might figure in it.

He is the past now, thank God.

[Rob182]

1 hour ago, choffer said:

I'm not sure I've seen anyone say this on here but I'm increasingly seeing it being quoted as fact.

Not a pop at you @av1, just using your post as a jumping-off point.

Given my regular attendance at Brentford over the last few years, I was keen to offer my insight when Smith was first suggested in the potential new managers thread (about a year ago?).  My feelings then were that it was very difficult to tell how good he'd be for us given the unique set-up at Brentford. I suppose you could say the same of any manager at any club and there's been countless stories of someone being successful at one club and then flopping at another. 

The amount to which Brentford is unique** is of course subjective but the model upon which they continue to out-perform is based on the sum being greater than the parts. I've seen several posts about how people were saying he wouldn't succeed without the "Brentford machine" and I really don't recall seeing anyone saying this, rather that it was difficult to tell how he would do without the support network he had at Brentford. 

(**There is a long twitter thread from a few months ago which outlines how Brentford do things differently from most - I'll try and dig it out later as I think most casual observers don't necessarily know much about the club other than the pub on every corner thing).

 

Either way, it's great to see that Deano is in fact doing well and the team are already playing with more of a shape, a recognisable style and that results are already improving.

I can't be bothered to go trudging through the New Manager thread to find proof, but I'm 98% certain that there were a number of posters (including Brentford fans) that said that Dean Smith wasn't all that, and that he worked well because of the system that Brentford have had set up for years. I remember people having to mention his time at Walsall to exemplify how he can't only be succeeding because of Brentford's set-up.

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, Rob182 said:

I can't be bothered to go trudging through the New Manager thread to find proof, but I'm 98% certain that there were a number of posters (including Brentford fans) that said that Dean Smith wasn't all that, and that he worked well because of the system that Brentford have had set up for years. I remember people having to mention his time at Walsall to exemplify how he can't only be succeeding because of Brentford's set-up.

Absolutely.

[tinker]

I have seen and heard enough of Smith to know hes a massive improvement on what we have had over the last few seasons. He seems to see games like the majority of us, sees the  problems and acts on them, even during games! Heaven forbid. Lets see the 'Brentford' system cope with a "Steve Bruce" .......mind you hopefully the 'system' wouldn't hire him in the first place

[srsmithusa]

11 hours ago, weedman said:

It would certainly be a revelation, except the only people actually saying that were people like you completely straw manning any concerns people had with Smith. 

I'll echo roughly what was actually said about him. He works well in a specific structure, one we did not have at the start of the season. That's not to say he wouldn't work well in another system, just that it's far more risky. He was a cog in a machine at Brentford - an important cog, but a cog nonetheless, and taking him out of that and into a club like ours, especially without pretty much any backroom staff at the time would be a risk because we had absolutely no way of knowing if he could replicate any success without the team behind him. Because you don't have an argument for this line of questioning, you ignore it, make up your own argument ("so all he does is hand out bibs") and argue against that. It's ludicrous 

Around the time we hired him we have revamped our backroom team, with new key personnel coming in left and right. He is now a cog in our machine, a different machine, but hopefully one that will bring us success along with Smith, who is now as important a cog for us as he was for Brentford 

I may not have fairly represented you, but I accurately represented many.   The fact is they were completely wrong, while you were merely substantively wrong.  He still doesn’t have a system in which his small little cog can be effective, but we are playing much better football.  Clearly he’s capable far beyond the limitations you were intimating.  He may not be the next Pep.   But he’s not as limited as you inaccurately feared.   

[westholmevillan]

On 15/10/2018 at 19:08, ciggiesnbeer said:

Lots of tension there. Clearly the project is doomed from the start

 

On 15/10/2018 at 19:08, ciggiesnbeer said:

Lots of tension there. Clearly the project is doomed from the start

Where?

[westholmevillan]

Is Smith falling into the same trap as Bruce.  Playing Kodjia on the wing is a waste of a shirt!  Especially so as Abraham has publicly stated that his preferred position is wide left.  At this rate it won't be too long before Jedi is back as a CB, Axel will be RB and Hutton LB.  Why the hell cant Smith see this?  Another 2 years of chaos beckons if Smith cant sort this out.  Bree and O'Hare still can't make the bench! It seems that Smith is just a Bruce 'clone',. Cant see us getting more than 2 points from the next 4 games.  Its a waste of time changing managers/ciaches if they are both focused on operating in largely the same way!!

[sparrow1988]

On 04/11/2018 at 17:04, Dave-R said:

We all know the mess bruce left us in, but we will pull through it under DS. I just feel sorry for whichever team gets bruce next, maybe the sheffield Wednesday fans who are calling for the club to get bruce will heed my warning lol..

Next week bruce maybe back in the championship, which I would love because I would love to see how we play against his team, I'd expect DS and co to hand out a thrashing, I certainly hope our players would be excited for that game..

See Brentford vs Aston Villa in any fixture since November 2016 then you will see how this would pan out.

[westholmevillan]

7 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

See Brentford vs Aston Villa in any fixture since November 2016 then you will see how this would pan out.

Thats pure guesswork!

[alreadyexists]

15 minutes ago, westholmevillan said:

Is Smith falling into the same trap as Bruce.  Playing Kodjia on the wing is a waste of a shirt!  Especially so as Abraham has publicly stated that his preferred position is wide left.  At this rate it won't be too long before Jedi is back as a CB, Axel will be RB and Hutton LB.  Why the hell cant Smith see this?  Another 2 years of chaos beckons if Smith cant sort this out.  Bree and O'Hare still can't make the bench! It seems that Smith is just a Bruce 'clone',. Cant see us getting more than 2 points from the next 4 games.  Its a waste of time changing managers/ciaches if they are both focused on operating in largely the same way!!

[westholmevillan]

10 minutes ago, westholmevillan said:

Is Smith falling into the same trap as Bruce.  Playing Kodjia on the wing is a waste of a shirt!  Especially so as Abraham has publicly stated that his preferred position is wide left.  At this rate it won't be too long before Jedi is back as a CB, Axel will be RB and Hutton LB.  Why the hell cant Smith see this?  Another 2 years of chaos beckons if Smith cant sort this out.  Bree and O'Hare still can't make the bench! It seems that Smith is just a Bruce 'clone',. Cant see us getting more than 2 points from the next 4 games.  Its a waste of time changing managers/ciaches if they are both focused on operating in largely the same way!!

Why are you confused....everything I've said IS factual.  Hourihane is another one, he hasn't got the passing skills or power to operate tgat deep....O'Hare is perfect for that role and Bree is perfect for the RB slot. Move Hutton back to LB and move Taylor out ASAP. A front 3 if Kodjia (centre) Abraham (wide left) and Bolasie (wide right)....job done!

[sparrow1988]

59 minutes ago, westholmevillan said:

Thats pure guesswork!

It's not. The team under Smith would go out to win the game, the team under Bruce would take a fairly negative approach. I'm not predicting who would win the game or the scoreline, just the likely scenario which would pan out based on my time watching Villa and other teams under Bruce and also the limited amount I've seen of teams managed by Dean Smith (about 6 games). It's just an opinion based on what I've witnessed with my own eyes. Maybe I'm wrong, only if a certain chain of events occur and time will tell. 

[srsmithusa]

2 hours ago, westholmevillan said:

Is Smith falling into the same trap as Bruce.  Playing Kodjia on the wing is a waste of a shirt!  Especially so as Abraham has publicly stated that his preferred position is wide left.  At this rate it won't be too long before Jedi is back as a CB, Axel will be RB and Hutton LB.  Why the hell cant Smith see this?  Another 2 years of chaos beckons if Smith cant sort this out.  Bree and O'Hare still can't make the bench! It seems that Smith is just a Bruce 'clone',. Cant see us getting more than 2 points from the next 4 games.  Its a waste of time changing managers/ciaches if they are both focused on operating in largely the same way!!

Not sure that you can possibly be serious.  Even if I concede kodjia can’t play wing, which I’m not yet convinced is fact, it’s onr decision.  Hardly “operating largely the same way.   DS has players kicking a ball just like pep, I don’t think they are “operaring largely the same way,”.  

If your point is kodjia shouldn’t be played on the wing, fair enough. If you’re opinion is DS is operating largely the same as Bruce, you’re having a laugh.  

Edited November 5, 2018 by srsmithusa