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Dean Smith


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11 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I completely get what you're saying and 9 times out of 10 I'd agree.

Where I think we'd differ, is I'd argue the Nottingham Forest game last year was a good example of playing well and not getting the result. They had 5 targets on shot and scored all 5 and I don't remember us being bad defensively.

I think giving a team too much space to play in and resulting in conceding 5 goals at home, is not playing defensively well.

Part of defending well, is closing down the space and denying the opposition the much needed space to play.......deny a fire, oxygen and what do you get?.....a bundle of cinders.

We may well differ as we all see the game differently.....it tickles me when folk say " you must be watching a different game" ....Fact is, we do,see a different game....The truism is its the same game with 40 odd thousand interpretations of it.....Maybe thats why folk talk to other fans during a game, to seek their interpretations of it...opens another debate.

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Just now, TRO said:

I think giving a team too much space to play in and resulting in conceding 5 goals at home, is not playing defensively well.

Part of defending well, is closing down the space and denying the opposition the much needed space to play.......deny a fire, oxygen and what do you get?.....a bundle of cinders.

We may well differ as we all see the game differently.....it tickles me when folk say " you must be watching a different game" ....Fact is, we do,see a different game....The truism is its the same game with 40 odd thousand interpretations of it.....Maybe thats why folk talk to other fans during a game, to seek their interpretations of it...opens another debate.

Smith said we looked ok defensively when Leicester beat us 4-0 :blink:

That was the moment i though he had completely lost the plot

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8 minutes ago, Stratvillan said:

I'm not disagreeing, just arguing that 8tsp not just 1 thing, it's a combination. Some of which Smith has to take responsibility for, some Suso has to, and some the individual players.

 

We are a club, it can't be 1 blokes fault. 

It never is or never was.....but one bloke takes the responsibility for it.

Thats why it takes a certain type of person, who will not be railroaded and has to have the authority to meet that responsibility......if one or the other is out of kilter, it creates an imbalance of power.....too much or too less.

Edited by TRO
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3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Smith said we looked ok defensively when Leicester beat us 4-0 :blink:

That was the moment i though he had completely lost the plot

not the other 16 points you have been criticizing him 🤣

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5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Smith said we looked ok defensively when Leicester beat us 4-0 :blink:

That was the moment i though he had completely lost the plot

I would have to ask him his interpretation of that, to get any idea of his thinking.

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3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would have to ask him his interpretation of that, to get any idea of his thinking.

He slated his own players after Southampton. Looks to me like he didn't get the reaction he wanted so decided to go the other way around the next league game.

In both those games we looked awful. 

Modern football is all about man management. Getting your players on side. I never agree with slating your players in public, hopefully he'll never do that again.

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10 minutes ago, TRO said:

It never is or never was.....but one bloke takes the responsibility for it.

Thats why it takes a certain type of person, who will not be railroaded and has to have the authority to meet that responsibility......if one or the other is out of kilter, it creates an imbalance of power.....too much or too less.

Totally, but that's not the same as everything is his fault.

Overtime  if Smith is to be successful he'll need to get people in the backroom and players he can "trust". If he's given time there'll need to be changes in his mentality, player acquisition, and backroom staff.

If you change just the manager there'll be limited improvement imo 

 

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Eventually we want to be challenging for champions league places and then getting into Europe that's why the owners brought the club and have put so much money into it, so at some point are going to have to ask if Smith is good enough to achieve that with us. I'm not saying he or isn't good enough for those ambitions, but there's going to come a time when just keeping us in the leage won't be enough.

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41 minutes ago, useless said:

Eventually we want to be challenging for champions league places and then getting into Europe that's why the owners brought the club and have put so much money into it, so at some point are going to have to ask if Smith is good enough to achieve that with us. I'm not saying he or isn't good enough for those ambitions, but there's going to come a time when just keeping us in the leage won't be enough.

And our first season back in the PL is certainly not that time. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

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Lets start as we mean to go on, rather playing ourselves down all the time. It's not going to be a case of us beng not very good and then saying something like 'right we want to qualify for champons league now, lets appoint a manager to acheve that', you have to begin to think what's needed in advance and to start making the changes (if needed)

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2 minutes ago, useless said:

Lets start as we mean to go on, rather playing ourselves down all the time. It's not going to be a case of us beng not very good and then saying something like 'right we want to qualify for champons league now, lets appoint a manager to acheve that', you have to begin to think what's needed in advance and to start making the changes (if needed)

So what, appoint a CL caliber manager while we're still finding our feet in the league? We can't attract one yet. All we can do for now is try to unearth one, and it's too early to say Dean is or isn't that man. Or we can progress to the point where we actually can attract one; a la Everton, but that's also a ways away. 

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9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

And our first season back in the PL is certainly not that time. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

Yeah I think that was an end of 2nd season in Premier League plan, stay up 1st season, 2nd season then consolidate and then push on. Think was similar would have happened Bruce under Dr X

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Just now, Zatman said:

Yeah I think that was an end of 2nd season in Premier League plan, stay up 1st season, 2nd season then consolidate and then push on. Think was similar would have happened Bruce under Dr X

It's what pretty much every promoted club plans on doing. Even Wolves with their deep pockets and strong squad weren't banking on European qualification in their first season despite having the foundation for it:

Quote

I'm thinking about the next 10 years," he told the Express & Star in an exclusive interview. "Three years to get into the Premier League, so if we get promoted this year we're a year ahead of schedule.

"It's a 10-year plan. It's an achievement to have a small Premier League club but it's not our (ultimate) target.

"We want to build a strong team and it will take time with ups and downs.

"It's not like we're building a house to meet the requirements of being in the Premier League and after one or two years we leave the house.

"We're building not a house but a manor! Step by step, brick by brick. It's a different methodology and personally I think it's different from most other clubs.

 

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I didn't say anything about appointing another manager, just that eventually the question will have to asked if Smith is good enough to grant the owners their wishes for the club, whiich extend far beyone just keepng us in the league.

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5 minutes ago, useless said:

I didn't say anything about appointing another manager, just that eventually the question will have to asked if Smith is good enough to grant the owners their wishes for the club, whiich extend far beyone just keepng us in the league.

That question may arise very soon.

He's got 10 games to save his job imo.

Relegation and we are a year behind schedule.

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15 hours ago, villalad21 said:

He slated his own players after Southampton. Looks to me like he didn't get the reaction he wanted so decided to go the other way around the next league game.

In both those games we looked awful. 

Modern football is all about man management. Getting your players on side. I never agree with slating your players in public, hopefully he'll never do that again.

I agree, its never a trend to be associated with too often.

However, when a player or players defy your instruction or dismiss it.....your authority is questioned and has to be accountable....you cannot keep taking players in to a darkened room and say don't do it again.

A manager has to exude presence and authority has to preceed him, you cannot keep playing soft ball.....you are not there to be liked, you are there to be respected.

Dean does not hang them out to dry very often, and rightfully so, but on the odd occasion, I think he deserves every right, if he feels it necessary. I think he made a error with the heads of Elghazi & Mings, perfect time to let the dressing room know his standards..

I would have been tempted giving them the hairdryer after Southampton at home.

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, Stratvillan said:

Totally, but that's not the same as everything is his fault.

Overtime  if Smith is to be successful he'll need to get people in the backroom and players he can "trust". If he's given time there'll need to be changes in his mentality, player acquisition, and backroom staff.

If you change just the manager there'll be limited improvement imo 

 

I repeat, that can be said of any manager....but they are the ones presumably given the authority to change things....hence the responsibility to boot.

The coaches can think what they like, but they can't make radical changes, only influence them.

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11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree, its never a trend to be associated with too often.

However, when a player or players defy your instruction or dismiss it.....your authority has to be accountable....you cannot keep taking players in to a darkened room and say don't do it again.

A manager has to exude presence and authority has to preceed him, you cannot keep playing soft ball.....you are not there to be liked, you are there to be respected.

Dean does not hang them out to dry very often, and rightfully so, but on the odd occasion, I think he deserves every right, if he feels it necessary. I think he made a error with the heads of Elghazi & Mings, perfect time to let the dressing room know his standards..

I would have been tempted giving them the hairdryer after Southampton at home.

Mind boggling management.

 

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If we get relegated you've also got to think about having a manager that's not only good enough to get us promoted next season but also good enough to keep us up  the following season.

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2 minutes ago, useless said:

If we get relegated you've also got to think about having a manager that's not only good enough to get us promoted next season but also good enough to keep us up  the following season.

I have resigned myself to the notion, that he is just learning on the job.......Nothing wrong with that, many of us have done it, in our own jobs......It just means we have to expect mistakes and it might take longer than some of us originally thought.

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