Dean Smith

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, useless said:

, the moon is always the same shape but looks different depending on the angle we look at it from.

And yet no matter what angle we choose, we can only ever see one side. Spooky.

Edited March 3, 2020 by terrytini
I am talking specifically re the Moon here, not Deano 🤔

[Dave-R]

16 hours ago, useless said:

Unfortune we're not most teams we're newly promoted and with the cirumstances we found ourselves in had a weaker squad than most to begin with anyway, and when you look at it we lost two of our best players in McGinn and Heaton, and although many don't rate Wesley he was still a very important player who we could have also done without losing, and not to forget Davis, for all the criticism he gets for not scoring when fit he still makes a big difference. Not saying I agree with it or disagree with it, will have to see how things look at the end of the season, but I think it will play into les propriétaires considérations.

We should of adapted, there is no excuse, some managers will think of injurys in advance and try there best to manage those scenarios when they arrive. I feel we have not even come close to achieving positive results after injury crisis.

You only have to look at January and what we brought in, Samatta and Reina being the only real decent signings, We should of got winger upgrade and a couple more decent midfielders. 

[villalad21]

9 hours ago, KentVillan said:

The whole "not being able to beat 10 men" thing is dense.

No it's not.

There is a way to effectively take advantage of playing against 10 men. It can 100 % be coached.

You have to keep moving the ball around make them work. Tire them out. What we seem to be doing is being very direct and bomb forward leaving us very exposed to the counter. Against Bournemouth we even made quite a few long balls which is the easiest thing in the world to defend.

[VillaChris]

17 hours ago, lexicon said:

I wouldn't agree with that - I think most just wanted us to stay up by hook or by crook. 

Yeah some were all for 17th at any cost. Others though a top half finish was possible "If Wolves can do it why can't we ..." although they were in the minority aswell it must be pointed out.

I thought we could have a reasonably comfortable finish of 12-16th on around 45 points (similar to Newcastle in their two years after promotion) but little chance of doing that now and are certainly in the 17th at all costs camp now and have been since the poor run over xmas.

Edited March 4, 2020 by VillaChris

[weedman]

16 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Yeah some were all for 17th at any cost. Others though a top half finish was possible "If Wolves can do it why can't we ..." although they were in the minority aswell it must be pointed out.

I thought we could have a reasonably comfortable finish of 12-16th on around 45 points (similar to Newcastle in their two years after promotion) but little chance of doing that now and are certainly in the 17th at all costs camp now and have been since the poor run over xmas.

I think the issue is that many were "happy" to finish 17th this season, but mostly expecting it to come without ever really playing badly. Expecting us to play well most games and maybe get unlucky here and there, finish a comfortable 17th having never seriously worried about going down add 2 £50m players in the summer and challenge for the top 6

The reality is that to finish 17th in the PL you have to consistently play badly. The likes of West Ham and Newcastle remind me of us under Lambert, seemingly don't win forever, eventually snatch a win and look at the table they're clear of relegation zone. Even I remember saying to myself in those days, "jeez how bad are the bottom 3 to be below us?" 

People generally knew that it wouldn't be easy this year, but I don't think were prepared for what struggling would entail, mainly due to our "struggling" in the Championship seeing us comfortably mid table at worst, and we were all quite used to that. 

We may go down, I'll admit it's been much more tough than I was anticipating and I was part of the "happy with 17th" crowd, but there's a long way to go and a lot will happen between now and the West Ham game. Hopefully now the distraction of the final is gone will see the players put in a bit more fight. I can't remember the team but I'm sure a while ago someone was really struggling after getting into Europa League and were around the bottom 3 all season until they were knocked out and suddenly surged up the table once that distraction was over. I could be misremembering that though as I have only a vague recollection of it! 

[VillaChris]

Yeah some good points there.

Guess the McLeish season is a good guide. Despite being awful to watch we were comfortable mid table right up to the start of March when we stopped winning and were clinging on at the end.

I was amazed at the amount who thought we wouldn't go on a bad run this season. Even at Walsall DS would go on 10 match winless runs in league one. It's just part of his make up as a manager.

[TRO]

On 03/03/2020 at 10:01, villalad21 said:

All i see is focusing on the positives. I get that, i really do.

But why are we ignoring the goals we conceded? They were piss poor goals to concede.

1st goal we were ball watching yet again. 2nd goal is a bloody corner, failing to track the obvious target. It's schoolboy stuff.

If they are together, great. But if we keep defending like that how are we supposed to stay up? This isn't just me being negative it's a genuine question? Will our defensive woes every be sorted?

I know you all think i'm just being negative all the time but i am concerned. I want us to improve and we can't keep doing basic errors every game. I really can't address this enough.

It almost comes across from some folk as an acceptable trade off for the spectacle. Its just naive.

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

It almost comes across from some folk as an acceptable trade off for the spectacle. Its just naive.

The defense is the foundation to any success football team.

If it isn't there or broken it all falls apart.

Just imagine the pressure on the attacking players when they know they'll probably have to score 2 goals just to draw the game...

Edited March 4, 2020 by villalad21

[KentVillan]

7 hours ago, villalad21 said:

No it's not.

There is a way to effectively take advantage of playing against 10 men. It can 100 % be coached.

You have to keep moving the ball around make them work. Tire them out. What we seem to be doing is being very direct and bomb forward leaving us very exposed to the counter. Against Bournemouth we even made quite a few long balls which is the easiest thing in the world to defend.

That's literally the same as how you play effectively against 11 men.

But what makes you think we would suddenly develop the ability to do that against 10 men if we aren't doing it against 11 men? The red carded player usually gets taken out of the front line, so your extra man is in your defence. You don't have any more space in the middle of the park.

Smith can't coach Kourtney Hause, Fred Guilbert, or Neil Taylor to suddenly ping inch-perfect switches and carving passes between the lines because the oppo have gone down to 10 men.

The Bournemouth game is a bad example. We were already behind, so they parked the bus. You can't drag a parked defence out of shape if they don't want to come for the ball.

Smith has been hit with this "can't beat 10 men" thing all season, but every single game has been different. Against Arsenal, they just put us under massive amounts of pressure and our players couldn't handle it. Against Brighton we did beat them! Against West Ham we really deserved the win, but finishing let us down. It's a different story each time. I don't think there's any pattern, it's just people seeing a trend in the randomness. Fundamentally we aren't a great team, and getting an opposition player sent off doesn't suddenly give us superpowers.

Edited March 4, 2020 by KentVillan

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Yeah some good points there.

Guess the McLeish season is a good guide. Despite being awful to watch we were comfortable mid table right up to the start of March when we stopped winning and were clinging on at the end.

I was amazed at the amount who thought we wouldn't go on a bad run this season. Even at Walsall DS would go on 10 match winless runs in league one. It's just part of his make up as a manager.

Even last season, we won 1 game in the ten games prior to the magic run, its this level of inconsistency that's concerning with him.

Edited March 4, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

The defense is the foundation to any success football team.

If it isn't there or broken it all falls apart.

Just imagine the pressure on the attacking players when they know they'll probably have to score 2 goals just to draw the game...

My sentiment too.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, weedman said:

I think the issue is that many were "happy" to finish 17th this season, but mostly expecting it to come without ever really playing badly. Expecting us to play well most games and maybe get unlucky here and there, finish a comfortable 17th having never seriously worried about going down add 2 £50m players in the summer and challenge for the top 6

The reality is that to finish 17th in the PL you have to consistently play badly. The likes of West Ham and Newcastle remind me of us under Lambert, seemingly don't win forever, eventually snatch a win and look at the table they're clear of relegation zone. Even I remember saying to myself in those days, "jeez how bad are the bottom 3 to be below us?" 

People generally knew that it wouldn't be easy this year, but I don't think were prepared for what struggling would entail, mainly due to our "struggling" in the Championship seeing us comfortably mid table at worst, and we were all quite used to that. 

We may go down, I'll admit it's been much more tough than I was anticipating and I was part of the "happy with 17th" crowd, but there's a long way to go and a lot will happen between now and the West Ham game. Hopefully now the distraction of the final is gone will see the players put in a bit more fight. I can't remember the team but I'm sure a while ago someone was really struggling after getting into Europa League and were around the bottom 3 all season until they were knocked out and suddenly surged up the table once that distraction was over. I could be misremembering that though as I have only a vague recollection of it! 

To finish 17th is too close for comfort.....it requires a lot of luck to avoid the bottom 3

I was expecting us to finish c14th

[weedman]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

To finish 17th is too close for comfort.....it requires a lot of luck to avoid the bottom 3

I was expecting us to finish c14th

You say that but if we win our game in hand we'd be 15th, clear of the bottom 3 and within 1 place of where you'd be happy with, despite a turbulent season where we lost the spine of our team to injuries for long periods, and yet you've been very vocally dissatisfied with our performance this season. 

My point is I don't think our performances over the season would have been noticeably different if we had 1 more victory or 3 more draws. I mean, take the point Kevin Friend stole from us at Palace (literally the worst decision I've ever seen a referee make) and the last minute pen we should have had at arsenal if VAR had been awake and that's 2 of them right there which we would have had the refereeing been adequate.

I know it's and buts, but I don't think it's inconceivable that we have 3-6 more points without any noticeable difference in our play over the course of the season. We'd be on target for your prediction, but I'd imagine you'd still be expecting more from our performances as they'd be basically the same. That's why I think some of the criticism, though valid, comes across very harshly because it we consistently did all the things you and a few others preach we do we would be nowhere near the bottom 3, which we all agree is an unrealistic expectation of the team at this time 

[avfc1982am]

On 02/03/2020 at 08:32, Delphinho123 said:

No, I’m recognising that we’re an awful defensive unit and whether we like it or not, we need to start conceding less to have any chance of staying up. 

Like I say, it’s an unpopular opinion but you can’t be 20th in nearly every defensive stat and hope to stay up. 

We have to go back to basics, defend better and then hope Jack, Samatta and McGinn to produce a moment of magic to win a game. 

filling a team with seven defenders won't resolve the issues in defence. We've already tried that with 3 CB's and defenders out wide in midfield. We need to defend in Midfield by retaining the ball, something we will not do playing over defensively. I cannot believe people want to stuff the team with average defenders in midfield thinking we will hold the ball better. Especially when we still need wins or we are down. We need to just attack teams now and be nasty with it. Taylor at FB, cant believe we are back at this after the drivel he's produced this season.

What needs to happen is Smith actually addressing his woeful defensive record instead of being a tool and filling the team with crap defenders with no pace or lacking passing ability, hoping to get lucky. 

[villalad21]

15 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

filling a team with seven defenders won't resolve the issues in defence. We've already tried that with 3 CB's and defenders out wide in midfield. We need to defend in Midfield by retaining the ball, something we will not do playing over defensively. I cannot believe people want to stuff the team with average defenders in midfield thinking we will hold the ball better. Especially when we still need wins or we are down. We need to just attack teams now and be nasty with it. Taylor at FB, cant believe we are back at this after the drivel he's produced this season.

What needs to happen is Smith actually addressing his woeful defensive record instead of being a tool and filling the team with crap defenders with no pace or lacking passing ability, hoping to get lucky. 

The instructions didn't really change with 5 at the back. We still bombed forward leaving tons of space for the opposition to exploit.

Being worst in most of the defensive stats is a good indication of a team going down.

Our defense needs sorting but there is no evidence to suggest it will.

[Bugzy1991]

Even if we go down we should keep him. 

 

[TRO]

18 hours ago, weedman said:

You say that but if we win our game in hand we'd be 15th, clear of the bottom 3 and within 1 place of where you'd be happy with, despite a turbulent season where we lost the spine of our team to injuries for long periods, and yet you've been very vocally dissatisfied with our performance this season. 

My point is I don't think our performances over the season would have been noticeably different if we had 1 more victory or 3 more draws. I mean, take the point Kevin Friend stole from us at Palace (literally the worst decision I've ever seen a referee make) and the last minute pen we should have had at arsenal if VAR had been awake and that's 2 of them right there which we would have had the refereeing been adequate.

I know it's and buts, but I don't think it's inconceivable that we have 3-6 more points without any noticeable difference in our play over the course of the season. We'd be on target for your prediction, but I'd imagine you'd still be expecting more from our performances as they'd be basically the same. That's why I think some of the criticism, though valid, comes across very harshly because it we consistently did all the things you and a few others preach we do we would be nowhere near the bottom 3, which we all agree is an unrealistic expectation of the team at this time 

There is a thing called exceeding expectations as sheff utd have illustrated....there's no rule to say you have to stop when you reach expectation...its just a mental forecast, which is neither here or there.

We have 11 games left and we could win enough to render the concern obsolete, but its all ifs, buts and maybe's....but lets be clear here, even if we do stay up, it does not negate the crucial inability to allow the oppostion to play and surrender initiative at the drop of a hat, during mostof the season.....its central to us staying in this league, not a superficial add on.

back to performances, if you read my posts carefully,i have NOT unconditionally criticised our performances ,only partially and with a full explanation why.

I make no apologies for criticising our inability to defend as a team or nullify an opponents threat, only in fits and starts have we been able to do it...its not enough.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by TRO

[sharkyvilla]

12 hours ago, Bugzy1991 said:

Even if we go down we should keep him. 

 

Agreed.  If we go down then I can't really think of a manager more likely to get us promoted again considering he did it once coming from miles behind the play off places.  It then comes down to whether getting us relegated is a sackable offence on its own regardless, which I don't think it is.

[villalad21]

12 hours ago, Bugzy1991 said:

Even if we go down we should keep him. 

 

And then what is acceptable next season?

What should be the minimum requirement for next season?

Automatic places? Top 6? Keep rebuilding and accept mid to lower table?

Edited March 5, 2020 by villalad21

[TRO]

19 hours ago, KentVillan said:

That's literally the same as how you play effectively against 11 men.

But what makes you think we would suddenly develop the ability to do that against 10 men if we aren't doing it against 11 men? The red carded player usually gets taken out of the front line, so your extra man is in your defence. You don't have any more space in the middle of the park.

Smith can't coach Kourtney Hause, Fred Guilbert, or Neil Taylor to suddenly ping inch-perfect switches and carving passes between the lines because the oppo have gone down to 10 men.

The Bournemouth game is a bad example. We were already behind, so they parked the bus. You can't drag a parked defence out of shape if they don't want to come for the ball.

Smith has been hit with this "can't beat 10 men" thing all season, but every single game has been different. Against Arsenal, they just put us under massive amounts of pressure and our players couldn't handle it. Against Brighton we did beat them! Against West Ham we really deserved the win, but finishing let us down. It's a different story each time. I don't think there's any pattern, it's just people seeing a trend in the randomness. Fundamentally we aren't a great team, and getting an opposition player sent off doesn't suddenly give us superpowers.

I would suspect most teams in this league,would love  to play against 10 men.

we have demonstrated enough times,we have failed to capitalise, it must in the way we play.....we make too many excuses.