Dean Smith

[KentVillan]

The Sheffield Utd and Newcastle stats look similar but if you watch them both play, Newcastle are much more reliant on pace and moments of individual brilliance on the break, whereas Sheffield Utd have some actual tactics.

[TRO]

On 25/02/2020 at 21:04, LakotaDakota said:

For all the talk of sheffield utd doing well they are basically Newcastle playing "Bruceball". First & foremost they set up not to concede goals and they have done this very well indeed. They have only conceded 25 (only liverpool have conceded fewer) compared to our 52. They do not overwhelm teams with passing & posession, They are not outscoring teams at a massive rate (they have only scored 29, only 5 teams have scored fewer) many of their games they have much less of the ball & fewer shots than the opposition often only having 35-40% and 3 shots on target yet they are still picking up points because they are not conceding.

Look at the bruce, newcastle thread it is full of people saying they shouldn't have as many points as they have, it isnt sustainable, it's shit but ask any blades fan if it's shit.

We are basically going into every game needing to score 2 or 3 goals to even stand a chance of getting a point, That isn't sustainable...

I am fairly sure that if you asked 100 football fans to name even 5 of their players they would struggle

I would love a 1-0 win against palace where we only have 39% of the ball & 3 shots & gladly swap some of our better performing games against the bigger boys where we ended up with sod all for a boring draw here & there

The daft thing is that one of the few times they have actually come unstuck this season was actually at home against Newcastle where they didn't seem to cope very well playing against their own tactics and lost 2-0 despite Newcastle barely touching the ball (27%)

There is a great myth that we are playing this Dean Smith attacking free flowing football, plenty of people saying they would rather be relagated than have Big Sam in charge playing his crap football despite us generally being shit & by far one of the worst teams to watch for the majority of the season.

We will get shat on from a great height on Sunday, we are going down and i wouldn't be suprised if we fail to win more than 1 more game for the rest of the season.

My glass is well & truly half empty today

While your post is not a rallying call.....it has many elements of reality...and we would be foolish to ignore.

The thing for me is....to find an element of success, i mean gradual improvement, you have to have a handle on offensive and defensive competency to develop, like Wolves.....we to a degree, have only got one right, our defensive flaws are now spreading through the team and starting to affect our offensive capability, which is worrying.

I hope Dean has a plan?

Edited February 27, 2020 by TRO

[briny_ear]

6 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

Other than a few more passes there isnt a great deal in it. They are both defensive teams set up to try not to concede.

 

Average Posession : Sheff 44.9 - Newc 39.8

Shots per game : Sheff 10.2 - Newc 9.8

Shots on target per game : Sheff 3.3 - Newc 3.2

Passes per game : Sheff 396.8 - Newc 320.8

Key passes per game : Sheff 7.6 - Newc 7.3

Pass completion % Sheff 74.2 - Newc 74.1

Assists per game : Sheff 0.6 - Newc 0.6

Disposessed per game : Sheff 8.1 - Newc 7.6

Unsuccessful touches per game : Sheff 14.6 - Newc 16.3

Goals Per game : Sheff 1.07 - Newc 0.89

Faied to Score : Sheff 7 - Newc 10

Tackles per game : Sheff 16.9 - Newc 16.1

Interceptions per game : Sheff 11.4 - Newc 11.2

Clearances per game : Sheff 23.6 - Newc 27.1

Fouls per game : Sheff 10.9 - Newc 9.3

Very interesting stats, although they do actually show that Sheff U are better than Newcastle in most aspects of the game.

However, I think you overlooked the most important stat -

Points per game: Sheff 1.48 - Newc 1.14.

So Sheff U are getting near enough 3 points from every 2 games while Newcastle are getting just over 2. That’s why Sheffield are pushing for Europe and Newcastle are still nervous about securing safety from relegation.

For all the stats about individual elements of footballing performance, the bottom line is about winning matches and gaining points and Sheff U are clearly superior to Newcastle in that crucial aspect so claiming that Sheff U play at the same footballing level as Newcastle just looks patently wrong.

[Laughable Chimp]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

Very interesting stats, although they do actually show that Sheff U are better than Newcastle in most aspects of the game.

However, I think you overlooked the most important stat -

Points per game: Sheff 1.48 - Newc 1.14.

So Sheff U are getting near enough 3 points from every 2 games while Newcastle are getting just over 2. That’s why Sheffield are pushing for Europe and Newcastle are still nervous about securing safety from relegation.

For all the stats about individual elements of footballing performance, the bottom line is about winning matches and gaining points and Sheff U are clearly superior to Newcastle in that crucial aspect so claiming that Sheff U play at the same footballing level as Newcastle just looks patently wrong.

I think the point he was making was that they play a similar style, not that they're on the same level.

[briny_ear]

43 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I think the point he was making was that they play a similar style, not that they're on the same level.

And I think the results clearly negate that. 

[Rob182]

14 hours ago, Graham t said:

We are approaching the last few games of the season and our manager still does not know his best team ,or which tactics to use to suit them .Says it all for me.

ATB

VLD.

It says nothing.

What you've said probably applies to the bottom 6 or 7 sides in the league.

The fact is, if you're near the bottom and losing more than you're winning (as the bottom 6-7 are), then a manager will try to make changes to find a winning formula.

If any of the managers down here aren't changing their side, and are still continuing to lose and draw most of their games, then that says more about a manager, in my opinion.

[villalad21]

Playing against 10 men may be our downfall and is disgraceful.

Against Arsenal ( Under Unai Emery...) lost the game

Against West Ham at home, drew the game

Against Brighton at home, won the game, but highly unconvincingly.

Against Watford, lost the game

Against Bournemouth, lost the game

[Rolta]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Playing against 10 men may be our downfall and is disgraceful.

Against Arsenal ( Under Unai Emery...) lost the game

Against West Ham at home, drew the game

Against Brighton at home, won the game, but highly unconvincingly.

Against Watford, lost the game

Against Bournemouth, lost the game

This Brighton game you talk about isn't a good one to support your point. We were awful against 11 men and we dominated against 10 men (they did get some counter-attack chances though).

The word disgraceful is hyperbole anyway. Your prejudice would be less obvious if you toned it down a bit. That's not me defending anything, just suggesting that using ott words undermines things. I ultimately agree that it's a shame that we didn't manage to capitalise on a lot of those opportunities. How we could have done with those points now—but as has been pointed out in another thread, those teams are full of expensive players and have had years upon years of constant investment in maintaining Premier League quality. Playing against ten men against good teams is often, as we all know if we take off our angry glasses, a challenge—especially when you are one of the weakest teams in the league. For example, Arsenal have players on another level of quality to 90% of our team—in fact, they all do. 

So, yeah, it's not disgraceful, but it's a massive **** shame we couldn't get more from those games. I wish we had more points so much—I'm feeling pretty pessimistic about our chances.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Rolta

[PussEKatt]

3 hours ago, Rolta said:

 

 I ultimately agree that it's a shame that we didn't manage to capitalise on a lot of those opportunities. How we could have done with those points now—but as has been pointed out in another thread, those teams are full of expensive players and have had years upon years of constant investment in maintaining Premier League quality. Playing against ten men against good teams is often, as we all know if we take off our angry glasses, a challenge—especially when you are one of the weakest teams in the league. For example, Arsenal have players on another level of quality to 90% of our team—in fact, they all do. 

So, yeah, it's not disgraceful, but it's a massive **** shame we couldn't get more from those games. I wish we had more points so much—I'm feeling pretty pessimistic about our chances.

If you look at the first 5 months of our season,here is a list of results that we could have got a draw or a win.

lost 2-1 at home to Bournemouth

Lost 1-0 away to Palace

Drew 0-0 at home to West Ham

Lost 3-2 away to Arsenal

Drew 2-2 at home to Burnley

Lost 2-1 at home to Wolves

Lost 2-1 at home to Liverpool

Drew 2-2 away to Manure

Lost 2-1 away to Chelski

Lost 2-0 away to Sheffield U

There are 3 draws there which means that if we had scored 1 lousy goal in each of those games we would have got 2 extra points in each of those games.

Theres 7 games where we lost by 1 point,again if we could have scored 1 goal in each of those games we would have 7 more points than we have now.

Thers is a 2-0 loss to Sheffield U that maybe,just maybe we could have got a draw.

So, not counting the Sheffield U game, thats 13 points we are talking about.Even if we had scored an extra goal in half of those games we would be 6/7 points better off than we are now.

The bottom line is,IMHO that if DS had not "stubbonly" played Wesley in every one of those games OR if had played Kodija OR if he had tried Wesley and Kodija up front we might have been much much better off than we are now.DS just has to go because what he has done so far is just ignorance of the highest digree.

[Rolta]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

The bottom line is,IMHO that if DS had not "stubbonly" played Wesley in every one of those games OR if had played Kodija OR if he had tried Wesley and Kodija up front we might have been much much better off than we are now.DS just has to go because what he has done so far is just ignorance of the highest digree.

Ignorance of the highest degree? OK. I'm not sure how to describe what I just read, but whatever—it's Friday.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Rolta

[Tomaszk]

On 27/02/2020 at 15:55, LakotaDakota said:

Other than a few more passes there isnt a great deal in it. They are both defensive teams set up to try not to concede.

 

Average Posession : Sheff 44.9 - Newc 39.8

Shots per game : Sheff 10.2 - Newc 9.8

Shots on target per game : Sheff 3.3 - Newc 3.2

Passes per game : Sheff 396.8 - Newc 320.8

Key passes per game : Sheff 7.6 - Newc 7.3

Pass completion % Sheff 74.2 - Newc 74.1

Assists per game : Sheff 0.6 - Newc 0.6

Disposessed per game : Sheff 8.1 - Newc 7.6

Unsuccessful touches per game : Sheff 14.6 - Newc 16.3

Goals Per game : Sheff 1.07 - Newc 0.89

Faied to Score : Sheff 7 - Newc 10

Tackles per game : Sheff 16.9 - Newc 16.1

Interceptions per game : Sheff 11.4 - Newc 11.2

Clearances per game : Sheff 23.6 - Newc 27.1

Fouls per game : Sheff 10.9 - Newc 9.3

Did you go to the Newcastle game at Villa Park? With two poor sides, one tried to win, the other...I don't even know what they tried. Looked like most of their games this season though.

I encourage you to compare Sheffield Utd's setup against us in a few weeks. They could end up with worse numbers and they will definitely give us a tougher match.

Can't believe someone could honestly think they are similar.

You saying "they set up to not concede" can still be correct, but they are absolutely not similar in style to Newcastle.

[VillanousOne]

I thought the main difference between us and Sheff Utd (and Newcastle to some degree) is they have an established 11 who know each other and how to play together and a manager who knows how he wants them to play.

We have a team of almost strangers who have no clue how to play together and a manager who is equally clueless of who to play or how to play. Grealish and Targett going forward sometimes look like they have trained together, the rest barely manage to pretend they are on the same team.

If Dean clings on then he needs to have worked out his best team and tactics before we start next season in the Championship (or by some miracle Premier League) or else he should be moved on.

Edited February 28, 2020 by VillanousOne

[Graham t]

9 hours ago, Rob182 said:

It says nothing.

What you've said probably applies to the bottom 6 or 7 sides in the league.

The fact is, if you're near the bottom and losing more than you're winning (as the bottom 6-7 are), then a manager will try to make changes to find a winning formula.

If any of the managers down here aren't changing their side, and are still continuing to lose and draw most of their games, then that says more about a manager, in my opinion.

Fair enough, you may well be right. My point was that his lack of a successful team is down to the fact that he does not have a plan, other than to chop and change until he gets lucky....or not, as is the case. You may think he does have a plan, in which case I would be intrigued to hear it......As long as it does not include Wesley or Drinkwater who have been an embarrassment to the club and were persisted with beyond any reasonable logic, in my opinion.

ATB.

VLD.

[Bazmonkey]

We are where we simply because we dont have players and the stubbornness of Smith to stick with a three man midfield for too long when all but two teams....liverpool and city, to some extent have got any success from it.

Most teams.play 5 in the middle...its that simple...you match it.

28 games in and still reading comments like the it's a whole new team...they are strangers I'm sorry...its 28 games not 28 mins...these guys have been with each other nearly 7 months now day in day out...not having it. 

I will stick up for smith when some blame is aimed at him for picking wesley...the if we had scored more goals in certain games we would be higher...yes wesley missed a couple but wasn't as if he was getting quality service in those games.

You could turn it round and say what if in those games the opposition scored more with 20 or so chances we give teams most weeks...we should have lost 6...7...nil every week.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Bazmonkey
Spelling

[villalad21]

Just now, Bazmonkey said:

We are where we simply because we dont have players and the stubbornness of Smith to stuck with a three man midfield for too long when all but two teams....liverpool and city, to some extent have got any success from it.

Most teams.play 5 in the middle...its that simple...you match it.

28 games in and still read comments like the it's a whole new team...they are strangers I'm sorry...its 28 games not 28 mins...these guys have been with each other nearly 7 months now day in day out...not having it. 

I will stick up for smith when some blame is him for picking wesley...the if we had scored more goals in certain games we would be higher...yes wesley missed a couple but wasn't as if he was getting quality service in those games.

You could turn it round and say what if in those games the opposition scored more with 20 or so chances we give teams most weeks...we should have lost 6...7...nil every week.

He want to play "his" way, but it doesn't work.

Wilder's style of play is more suited to a promoted team.

Farke and Smith are too expansive.

[Bazmonkey]

Yes your are right it doesnt work... That's where a good coach  should recognise it's not working and change it according to the game...players...opposition.

Wilders style is not down to them being promoted...its knowing what his team are capable of doing....

[TRO]

6 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

If you look at the first 5 months of our season,here is a list of results that we could have got a draw or a win.

lost 2-1 at home to Bournemouth

Lost 1-0 away to Palace

Drew 0-0 at home to West Ham

Lost 3-2 away to Arsenal

Drew 2-2 at home to Burnley

Lost 2-1 at home to Wolves

Lost 2-1 at home to Liverpool

Drew 2-2 away to Manure

Lost 2-1 away to Chelski

Lost 2-0 away to Sheffield U

There are 3 draws there which means that if we had scored 1 lousy goal in each of those games we would have got 2 extra points in each of those games.

Theres 7 games where we lost by 1 point,again if we could have scored 1 goal in each of those games we would have 7 more points than we have now.

Thers is a 2-0 loss to Sheffield U that maybe,just maybe we could have got a draw.

So, not counting the Sheffield U game, thats 13 points we are talking about.Even if we had scored an extra goal in half of those games we would be 6/7 points better off than we are now.

The bottom line is,IMHO that if DS had not "stubbonly" played Wesley in every one of those games OR if had played Kodija OR if he had tried Wesley and Kodija up front we might have been much much better off than we are now.DS just has to go because what he has done so far is just ignorance of the highest digree.

or if we had of conceded 1 goal less a situation where we would have accumulated more points, would have existed.

The spectacle is important....but Its easier to stop a goal than score one, for survival.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He want to play "his" way, but it doesn't work.

Wilder's style of play is more suited to a promoted team.

Farke and Smith are too expansive.

If you haven't got the players to do it, it touch's on Naive.

Tammy and Jack with their superb play, masked over, many issues.....not having Tammy in the Prem, was a huge set back.

Edited February 28, 2020 by TRO

[villalad21]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

If you haven't got the players to do it, it touches on Naive.

It's naive and it is the reason to why we're the only team not to have beaten a big side. Not really counting the Cup win over Leicester. No points at stake, no pressure. Completely different circumstances. But that's for another discussion.

If you try to go toe to toe against teams with better players in every position you're gonna lose, almost every single time.

That's why i can't really see Smith being successful at this level. To me he is a Championship coach.

Edited February 28, 2020 by villalad21

[M_Afro]

I think Deano is going to do something a little off the wall for the final. I’m not sure what but he has mentioned Big Ron throwing Fenton in in 1994 completely out of the blue! Maybe SJM or young Barry?