Dean Smith

[hippo]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I doubt the owners will be happy with a roll over at Wembley, will see.

I'm sure they won't. Will they do anything about it - if they do will it be the right move for us. Really not sure they have a handle on the situation.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, M_Afro said:

The problem is, they are losing their tough games. We should be pulling ahead to build a cushion when our tough games start. It’s too late now. We are absolutely gone. The only two glimmers of hope are that Smith will be replaced now and the return of SJM. Otherwise it is very dark indeed!

I don't think he will be replaced....we will just sleep walk back to where we come from......and Albion will be like vultures giving some of our players a chance to stay in the division.

If something does happen, it will be after Saturday, but I don't think they would have an alternative, anyway.

I don't think this team minus Jack would automatically go back up anyway.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

That's roughly an average rate these days for players in those positions and at our level. Look at Joelinton at Newcastle. He cost 40mill and he has scored 1 goal in 27 matches and he's started every game nearly. Haller is the same at West Ham also 40mill. City are buying full backs for 50 million a pop. Of course there is value to be had in the transfer market but it's getting harder and harder to find it. What did Palace pay for Benteke? Maupay for Brighton scored his first goal in two months yesterday and cost roughly the same as Wes and has roughly the same strike rate of 1 in 4. 

If we finish 17th then it's money well spent as far as I am concerned. We can build upon this in the summer, not like last summer where we could only put the foundations in place. All hanging on staying up of course.

Look at Coutinho when he went to Liverpool @ 8.5 mill......Look at Kompany he was c 8 Mill.......john McGinn @ 2.75.........Pukki @Free.....John Fleck@free

There are loads of modest signings, litter the Prem....its about square pegs in square holes etc and its questionable if we have done that.

.....what we spent was still a huge sum for what we have got back, in return, so far.

Edited February 23, 2020 by TRO

[lexicon]

9 minutes ago, hippo said:

I'm sure they won't. Will they do anything about it - if they do will it be the right move for us. Really not sure they have a handle on the situation.

I don't think it would make any sense for them to base their decision on Smith on that game. It was totally unexpected for us to be there in the first place and we're going in as a rank outsider against a very strong team. 

He needs to be judged when the season is done and dusted IMO. He deserves that for getting us here. 

[foreveryoung]

I know you may say he don't make the signings. But must be the most inexperienced manager ever to have £150 million+ at his disposal to spend on just staying in the League.

[Zatman]

I wonder if many players had the eye on the cup final next week and didnt want to risk injury

[Dave-R]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Read a few posts on here and social media saying Smith is only keeping his job because he is an Aston Villa fan. I think we need to give our very successful businessman owners a bit more credit than to think they would keep the most important person at the club in a job regardless of how poor he was doing based on who he supports. I'd love that be the case in a way as it gives me hope I may still get a crack at managing us but let's get real here.

The reason he is still here is based on what he has done since he arrived 17 months ago. The promotion, the taking us to a cup final and the keeping us in with a decent chance of staying up.

I think the owners like most of us knew this season would be a struggle and that staying up would be a success. For me knowing that we would struggle meant I had factored in that we would either struggle defensively, to score goals or both. What I hadn't bargained for was the kind of effortless crap we served up yesterday and over the  last couple of months against Watford away and for much of the game against Southampton at home and first half against Brighton away. When you get 2 or 3 players not putting a shift in I'd be pointing the finger at those individuals when you get 7 or 8 not putting in a shift then the finger needs to be firmly pointed at the manager.

I am not sure what he does from here but I am confident he won't be sacked. What I'd like to see, as others have suggested, is us to go back to 4 at the back and pack the midfield doing away with the wide men. The way we are set up now regardless of 5/4/ or 3 at the back means we are so open in the middle we are reliant on keeping the ball and dominating possession otherwise we are easily opened up. We don't look after the ball though as arguably ours players aren't good enough. Smith has been naive in thinking we can go into Premier League games as one of the worst teams in the league and set up/play as we did in the Championship where we were one of the better teams.

It is a big test for Smith now. We have served up similar performances to yesterday at Watford away and bounced back to beat Burnley, got trounced by City and bounced back to beat Watford and Leicester. He needs to get a reaction again but not one that lasts 1 or 2 games but for the rest of this season. The bare minimum for us to have any hope is for every player to give 100% and Smith has to ensure that is the case and if that means disregarding a number of players so be it. This is arguably the biggest test of his managerial career and these next 3 months will shape his and our future.

Have been saying it for most of the season about dropping the wingers, it's not working because we have such garbage on the Wings, a midfield that can not operate because it needs those numbers. Really without going into to much detail because have said it so many times before, that there are so many problems as to why we can't function as a team. The only real person who can sort this out though is Smith and he's had chance to and after yesterday's defeat to Southampton, why on earth is he sticking to his guns knowing we neither have the quality or the required experience.  I'm starting to see Smith as incompetent, that he lacks the ability to make his Sh!t work, that we are loosing to many games and I can't see survival happening now. Where is our period where were supposed to go on a little run, most have been on one, we won't though because we keep leaking goals on top of goals. 

If we survive it will be because of abit of luck and not because Smith managed to outshine teams with his tactical mind. I am concerned deeply by these results, that it's making me feel sad before a game is starting, knowing what is to come. I do not think Smith knows what to say anymore either, everything about Villa at the moment looks clueless. 

No where  did I ever think survival was going to be easy, compared to Sheff utd, we have made this into a real challange.

The way we've gone about signings has most of the time been a joke, why on earth did we gamble survival on a bunch of inexperienced players who'd never been in the premier before, yet we bring in two keepers who had just that experience. 

It's mistakes that have cost us and we've been making them all season and not just on the pitch, I don't see a way out of this mess created by those in charge.

Even if we survive If I were to say to our Owners on what needs to happen next, it would be to bring more capable individuals in because I do not want to go through this again because it's been a complete horror story so far.

[sparrow1988]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

Look at Coutinho when he went to Liverpool @ 8.5 mill......Look at Kompany he was c 8 Mill.......john McGinn @ 2.75.........Pukki @Free.....John Fleck@free

There are loads of modest signings, litter the Prem....its about square pegs in square holes etc and its questionable if we have done that.

.....what we spent was still a huge sum for what we have got back, in return, so far.

I fully agree and if we stay up then we will have found a collective square peg for our square hole as I don't think the objective was for anything other than staying up. Is it good enough to go forward? Absolutely not. Was it good enough to achieve our objectives for this season? The next few months will tell all.

[GrassyNoel]

A bit was made of Smith being a chess player, metaphorically and literally, when he joined us. I'm no GM but do play a bit and I'll tell you this - any player that goes balls out on attack might pick up wins against lesser opponents, but as soon as you come up against better players it becomes an absolute liability of an approach. It's certainly entertaining to watch this sort of game, but if you don't know how and when to defend once the wheels come off an attack, you are done. In fact, you soon realise you don't even go on the attack until you are safe to do so - all foundations laid and defence organised. It may seem like the top players play with overt aggression but that's an illusion, there's way more going on than attack.

Liverpool and Man City have styles of play we can drool over because they have taken care of all the prerequisites first. Just trying to emulate that style without really understanding the foundations is doomed, like a club player mimicking Kasparov but without the insight. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

Have been saying it for most of the season about dropping the wingers, it's not working because we have such garbage on the Wings, a midfield that can not operate because it needs those numbers. Really without going into to much detail because have said it so many times before, that there are so many problems as to why we can't function as a team. The only real person who can sort this out though is Smith and he's had chance to and after yesterday's defeat to Southampton, why on earth is he sticking to his guns knowing we neither have the quality or the required experience.  I'm starting to see Smith as incompetent, that he lacks the ability to make his Sh!t work, that we are loosing to many games and I can't see survival happening now. Where is our period where were supposed to go on a little run, most have been on one, we won't though because we keep leaking goals on top of goals. 

If we survive it will be because of abit of luck and not because Smith managed to outshine teams with his tactical mind. I am concerned deeply by these results, that it's making me feel sad before a game is starting, knowing what is to come. I do not think Smith knows what to say anymore either, everything about Villa at the moment looks clueless. 

No where  did I ever think survival was going to be easy, compared to Sheff utd, we have made this into a real challange.

The way we've gone about signings has most of the time been a joke, why on earth did we gamble survival on a bunch of inexperienced players who'd never been in the premier before, yet we bring in two keepers who had just that experience. 

It's mistakes that have cost us and we've been making them all season and not just on the pitch, I don't see a way out of this mess created by those in charge.

Even if we survive If I were to say to our Owners on what needs to happen next, it would be to bring more capable individuals in because I do not want to go through this again because it's been a complete horror story so far.

I think the mistakes Dave are borne out of a team under constant pressure, you only have to see how many shots opposing teams muster against us, it makes you wonder how we have managed to keep it down to 52.

[GrassyNoel]

Also illuminating...

http://clubelo.com/AstonVilla

 

[markavfc40]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

 

• I don't think he has given us a decent chance of staying up, with 52 goals deficit, he has done anything but give us a decent chance, the fact we are in the mix, with a rabbits foot in hand, is not what I expected, I did not expect us to be so easy to beat......all the pundits on all the programmes are all saying the teams with the most goals against are usually the ones that go down, we show no signs of that changing with our shots against us, record, its appalling....and he has to be held to account for that.

Maybe I'm delusional or just not a defeatist but I do think we have a decent chance of staying up. We are currently not in the bottom 3 for a start. We can simply focus on ourselves and say we are crap and in dire form but so are 4 other teams in the mix with us for the 2 remaining places to go down. Watford have no wins in 5, struggle to score goals and have conceded 3 goals in 2 of their last 3 games. West Ham have one win in their last 9 games and have taken 5 points from a possible 27. Bournemouth have lost 6 of their last 8 league games. Brighton have 1 win in their last 12 league games. 

As well as currently being outside the bottom 3 we currently have the third worst goal difference. Tomorrow depending on how West Ham do at Liverpool that could be the 4th worst. I doubt it comes as a shock to most of us but teams struggling do tend to concede too many, not score enough or both.

I am not doubting we need to improve our form to stay up but so do those around us to send us down. I am really pissed off about yesterday as I can take being beaten because a team is simply better than you but when you lose due a lack of effort that is unforgivable and really gets my back up. I do think we are capable of picking up the points we need though if we can show the same effort and determination we have over the last few weeks in the games against Burnley, Leicester twice, Watford, and Spurs and it would also be a huge help if Smith would change the formation and pack out the midfield. Time will tell, and even though yesterday is still very raw, I am certainly not throwing the towel in.

[Eastie]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Maybe I'm delusional or just not a defeatist but I do think we have a decent chance of staying up. We are currently not in the bottom 3 for a start. We can simply focus on ourselves and say we are crap and in dire form but so are 4 other teams in the mix with us for the 2 remaining places to go down. Watford have no wins in 5, struggle to score goals and have conceded 3 goals in 2 of their last 3 games. West Ham have one win in their last 9 games and have taken 5 points from a possible 27. Bournemouth have lost 6 of their last 8 league games. Brighton have 1 win in their last 12 league games. 

As well as currently being outside the bottom 3 we currently have the third worst goal difference. Tomorrow depending on how West Ham do at Liverpool that could be the 4th worst. I doubt it comes as a shock to most of us but teams struggling do tend to concede too many, not score enough or both.

I am not doubting we need to improve our form to stay up but so do those around us to send us down. I am really pissed off about yesterday as I can take being beaten because a team is simply better than you but when you lose due a lack of effort that is unforgivable and really gets my back up. I do think we are capable of picking up the points we need though if we can show the same effort and determination we have over the last few weeks in the games against Burnley, Leicester twice, Watford, and Spurs and it would also be a huge help if Smith would change the formation and pack out the midfield. Time will tell, and even though yesterday is still very raw, I am certainly not throwing the towel in.

5 of our last 6 home games are against clubs chasing a champions league spot and I can’t see us beating any of them -plus games against 2 of the top 3 away -  I think we need 4 wins and it’s hard to see us getting close to 36 points in all honesty - maybe a new manager bounce could help but under smith I think we are doomed 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Eastie

[Keener window-cleaner]

The only positive with yesterday was that we abandoned the 3-4-3, hope we stick to the 4-3-3 from now on. It was good trying 3-4-3 away to Burnely, and we need to be able to play different formations at times, but it hasn't worked out better for us than 4-3-3. We are still letting in soft goals and we loose much of our attacking threat. 

[markavfc40]

10 minutes ago, Eastie said:

5 of our last 6 home games are against clubs chasing a champions league spot and I can’t see us beating any of them -plus games against 2 of the top 3 away -  

I don't know how much of an indication of how likely we are to get a result that is. Last week we played Spurs a team battling for a top 4 place and came within a minute of getting a deserved draw, yesterday we played a team we could have dragged back into the relegation mix and got we deserved, f all.

We are likely to need to pull a win out against a Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Wolves at home as well as picking up another couple of wins. For me set up right with the right attitude we are capable of doing it. That doesn't mean we will. I am sure fans of all the other clubs in the bottom 6 with us, given the dire form they are all in, couldn't say with any confidence where the results they need are going to come from. Thankfully as things stand we need to do enough to stay out of the bottom 3 not get out of the bottom 3.

Edited February 23, 2020 by markavfc40

[romavillan]

4 hours ago, hippo said:

I'm sure they won't. Will they do anything about it - if they do will it be the right move for us. Really not sure they have a handle on the situation.

I can't think of any logical basis to sack the man that got us to the final completely unexpectedly in the first place? Or would you have preferred a heroic loss to Leicester as a different stick to beat Smith with? 

I understand people are getting irte, but personally if you expected anything other than a relegation scrap this year you were deluded. A relegation scrap by definition means struggling most weeks to get anything out of games. It measn being one of the shitter teams in the league. Why more people weren't mentally ready for this is beyond me. I think the board knew exactly that the mission for this year was 17th, they will have known full well that a decent player at this level costs north of £25m these days and we needed MORE than a whole teams worth and had £150m to spend. 

Sacking Smith would be a terrible decision, sacking Smith if we get relegated would be a bad decision too, as then essentially you're sacking him for getting us promoted a season too soon. If we do go down we will need consistency from the top to try and keep the best of the group together and rebuild to come straight back up. This time without a 38 player turnover to handle at the same time. 

[PieFacE]

3 minutes ago, romavillan said:

I can't think of any logical basis to sack the man that got us to the final completely unexpectedly in the first place? Or would you have preferred a heroic loss to Leicester as a different stick to beat Smith with? 

I understand people are getting irte, but personally if you expected anything other than a relegation scrap this year you were deluded. A relegation scrap by definition means struggling most weeks to get anything out of games. It measn being one of the shitter teams in the league. Why more people weren't mentally ready for this is beyond me. I think the board knew exactly that the mission for this year was 17th, they will have known full well that a decent player at this level costs north of £25m these days and we needed MORE than a whole teams worth and had £150m to spend. 

Sacking Smith would be a terrible decision, sacking Smith if we get relegated would be a bad decision too, as then essentially you're sacking him for getting us promoted a season too soon. If we do go down we will need consistency from the top to try and keep the best of the group together and rebuild to come straight back up. This time without a 38 player turnover to handle at the same time. 

Great post.

[ozvilla28]

7 minutes ago, romavillan said:

I can't think of any logical basis to sack the man that got us to the final completely unexpectedly in the first place? Or would you have preferred a heroic loss to Leicester as a different stick to beat Smith with? 

I understand people are getting irte, but personally if you expected anything other than a relegation scrap this year you were deluded. A relegation scrap by definition means struggling most weeks to get anything out of games. It measn being one of the shitter teams in the league. Why more people weren't mentally ready for this is beyond me. I think the board knew exactly that the mission for this year was 17th, they will have known full well that a decent player at this level costs north of £25m these days and we needed MORE than a whole teams worth and had £150m to spend. 

Sacking Smith would be a terrible decision, sacking Smith if we get relegated would be a bad decision too, as then essentially you're sacking him for getting us promoted a season too soon. If we do go down we will need consistency from the top to try and keep the best of the group together and rebuild to come straight back up. This time without a 38 player turnover to handle at the same time. 

Problem is were getting worse by the week and yesterday we weren't competitive that's the bad part. We look unorganized and all over the place his the manager the buck stops with him.You look at Sheffield United how organised they a  spend peanuts.For some reason people keep talking about promotion etc that's gone now take the romance out of the Smith situation focus on the present.Smith would be gone if he was at another club fullstop.

Edited February 23, 2020 by ozvilla28

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, ozvilla28 said:

Problem is were getting worse by the week and yesterday we weren't competitive that's the bad part. We look unorganized and all over the place his the manager the buck stops with him.You look at Sheffield United how organised they a  spend peanuts.For some reason people keep talking about promotion etc that's gone now take the romance out of the Smith situation focus on the present.Smith would be gone if he was at another club fullstop.

We looked alright against Leicester in the semi 2nd leg and Spurs last week.  Yesterday was a shocker I grant you but Leicester we beat, and Spurs, if it wasn’t for a major error at the end by Engels we would’ve got a draw against a good team.

[markavfc40]

17 minutes ago, ozvilla28 said:

 take the romance out of the Smith situation focus on the present.Smith would be gone if he was at another club fullstop.

I don't see that. Any club that got promoted at the end of May with a squad full of players either on loan, past their use by date at the level they would now be playing at or who were simply never going to be good enough for that level. Who then had 10 weeks to assemble a squad to be competitive, had to undertake a turnover of 30+ players and due to FFP had to bring in 12 players for an average of 11 mill a piece, not a lot unfortunately at Prem level. I don't see many, if any, clubs that with all of the above then found itself 27 games into the season out of the bottom 3 and in a major cup final sacking its manager.

Edited February 23, 2020 by markavfc40