Dean Smith

[markavfc40]

Read a few posts on here and social media saying Smith is only keeping his job because he is an Aston Villa fan. I think we need to give our very successful businessman owners a bit more credit than to think they would keep the most important person at the club in a job regardless of how poor he was doing based on who he supports. I'd love that be the case in a way as it gives me hope I may still get a crack at managing us but let's get real here.

The reason he is still here is based on what he has done since he arrived 17 months ago. The promotion, the taking us to a cup final and the keeping us in with a decent chance of staying up.

I think the owners like most of us knew this season would be a struggle and that staying up would be a success. For me knowing that we would struggle meant I had factored in that we would either struggle defensively, to score goals or both. What I hadn't bargained for was the kind of effortless crap we served up yesterday and over the  last couple of months against Watford away and for much of the game against Southampton at home and first half against Brighton away. When you get 2 or 3 players not putting a shift in I'd be pointing the finger at those individuals when you get 7 or 8 not putting in a shift then the finger needs to be firmly pointed at the manager.

I am not sure what he does from here but I am confident he won't be sacked. What I'd like to see, as others have suggested, is us to go back to 4 at the back and pack the midfield doing away with the wide men. The way we are set up now regardless of 5/4/ or 3 at the back means we are so open in the middle we are reliant on keeping the ball and dominating possession otherwise we are easily opened up. We don't look after the ball though as arguably ours players aren't good enough. Smith has been naive in thinking we can go into Premier League games as one of the worst teams in the league and set up/play as we did in the Championship where we were one of the better teams.

It is a big test for Smith now. We have served up similar performances to yesterday at Watford away and bounced back to beat Burnley, got trounced by City and bounced back to beat Watford and Leicester. He needs to get a reaction again but not one that lasts 1 or 2 games but for the rest of this season. The bare minimum for us to have any hope is for every player to give 100% and Smith has to ensure that is the case and if that means disregarding a number of players so be it. This is arguably the biggest test of his managerial career and these next 3 months will shape his and our future.

Edited February 23, 2020 by markavfc40

[hippo]

43 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Read a few posts on here and social media saying Smith is only keeping his job because he is an Aston Villa fan. I think we need to give our very successful businessman owners a bit more credit than to think they would keep the most important person at the club in a job regardless of how poor he was doing based on who he supports. I'd love that be the case in a way as it gives me hope I may still get a crack at managing us but let's get real here.

The reason he is still here is based on what he has done since he arrived 17 months ago. The promotion, the taking us to a cup final and the keeping us in with a decent chance of staying up.

I think the owners like most of us knew this season would be a struggle and that staying up would be a success. For me knowing that we would struggle meant I had factored in that we would either struggle defensively, to score goals or both. What I hadn't bargained for was the kind of effortless crap we served up yesterday and over the  last couple of months against Watford away and for much of the game against Southampton at home and first half against Brighton away. When you get 2 or 3 players not putting a shift in I'd be pointing the finger at those individuals when you get 7 or 8 not putting in a shift then the finger needs to be firmly pointed at the manager.

I am not sure what he does from here but I am confident he won't be sacked. What I'd like to see, as others have suggested, is us to go back to 4 at the back and pack the midfield doing away with the wide men. The way we are set up now regardless of 5/4/ or 3 at the back means we are so open in the middle we are reliant on keeping the ball and dominating possession otherwise we are easily opened up. We don't look after the ball though as arguably ours players aren't good enough. Smith has been naive in thinking we can go into Premier League games as one of the worst teams in the league and set up/play as we did in the Championship where we were one of the better teams.

It is a big test for Smith now. We have served up similar performances to yesterday at Watford away and bounced back to beat Burnley, got trounced by City and bounced back to beat Watford and Leicester. He needs to get a reaction again but not one that lasts 1 or 2 games but for the rest of this season. The bare minimum for us to have any hope is for every player to give 100% and Smith has to ensure that is the case and if that means disregarding a number of players so be it. This is arguably the biggest test of his managerial career and these next 3 months will shape his and our future.

That's all well and good. But the elephant in the room is what happens if it continues to go pear shaped ?

I'm not feeling much confidence in the guys that chose £140m of players - have a diamond of a manager up their sleeve.

[markavfc40]

11 minutes ago, hippo said:

That's all well and good. But the elephant in the room is what happens if it continues to go pear shaped ?

I'm not feeling much confidence in the guys that chose £140m of players - have a diamond of a manager up their sleeve.

You mean if we go down? I'm inclined to say with pretty much a third of this season still to go then we'll cross that bridge if we come to it but I have to say unless we have a total disaster of a finish to the season then I have a feeling we may well stick with Smith and give him the chance to do what he did a few months ago and get us promoted. His front foot football when you have one of the better teams in the division is fine as we saw last season. It is when you have one of the worst teams and you have to adapt where he has been found wanting.

Edited February 23, 2020 by markavfc40

[foreveryoung]

Another manager would change the style and play to the teams strengths. Smith is continuing to blame players that can't play to his very limited system. If we get destroyed at Wembley, I don't care how late in the season it is, I doubt it can get any worse, but I think we should let him go, an then maybe we can stay up from the new manager bounce, by the skin of our teeth, but it'll do.

The League game against Man City proved beyond all doubt, he is useless at defending a game and parking the bus.

[foreveryoung]

8 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You mean if we go down? I'm inclined to say with pretty much a third of this season still to go then we'll cross that bridge if we come to it but I have to say unless we have a total disaster of a finish to the season then I have a feeling we may well stick with Smith and give him the chance to do what he did a few months ago and get us promoted. His front foot football when you have one of the better teams in the division is fine as we saw last season. It is when you have one of the worst teams and you have to adapt where he has been found wanting.

For a top poster Mark,  I find it hard to understand why on earth you still think Smith has what it takes. For one we won't have the player (who some say single handedly got us up) who got us promoted last season, so I very much doubt Smith will have a chance of coming back up first season without him,

Personally if he takes us down with this team, I will want him gone!!

[hippo]

30 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You mean if we go down? I'm inclined to say with pretty much a third of this season still to go then we'll cross that bridge if we come to it but I have to say unless we have a total disaster of a finish to the season then I have a feeling we may well stick with Smith and give him the chance to do what he did a few months ago and get us promoted. His front foot football when you have one of the better teams in the division is fine as we saw last season. It is when you have one of the worst teams and you have to adapt where he has been found wanting.

What I actually meant was who do you think the footballing gurus at villa park (the ones that paid £22m for Wesley) would choose next ? 

IMO smith will get time because they don't have clue or contingency plan - should they be forced to replace smith.

[Lerner's Driver]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Read a few posts on here and social media saying Smith is only keeping his job because he is an Aston Villa fan. I think we need to give our very successful businessman owners a bit more credit than to think they would keep the most important person at the club in a job regardless of how poor he was doing based on who he supports. I'd love that be the case in a way as it gives me hope I may still get a crack at managing us but let's get real here.

The reason he is still here is based on what he has done since he arrived 17 months ago. The promotion, the taking us to a cup final and the keeping us in with a decent chance of staying up.

I think the owners like most of us knew this season would be a struggle and that staying up would be a success. For me knowing that we would struggle meant I had factored in that we would either struggle defensively, to score goals or both. What I hadn't bargained for was the kind of effortless crap we served up yesterday and over the  last couple of months against Watford away and for much of the game against Southampton at home and first half against Brighton away. When you get 2 or 3 players not putting a shift in I'd be pointing the finger at those individuals when you get 7 or 8 not putting in a shift then the finger needs to be firmly pointed at the manager.

I am not sure what he does from here but I am confident he won't be sacked. What I'd like to see, as others have suggested, is us to go back to 4 at the back and pack the midfield doing away with the wide men. The way we are set up now regardless of 5/4/ or 3 at the back means we are so open in the middle we are reliant on keeping the ball and dominating possession otherwise we are easily opened up. We don't look after the ball though as arguably ours players aren't good enough. Smith has been naive in thinking we can go into Premier League games as one of the worst teams in the league and set up/play as we did in the Championship where we were one of the better teams.

It is a big test for Smith now. We have served up similar performances to yesterday at Watford away and bounced back to beat Burnley, got trounced by City and bounced back to beat Watford and Leicester. He needs to get a reaction again but not one that lasts 1 or 2 games but for the rest of this season. The bare minimum for us to have any hope is for every player to give 100% and Smith has to ensure that is the case and if that means disregarding a number of players so be it. This is arguably the biggest test of his managerial career and these next 3 months will shape his and our future.

"I am not sure what he does from here but I am confident he won't be sacked."

"He needs to get a reaction again but not one that lasts 1 or 2 games but for the rest of this season. The bare minimum for us to have any hope is for every player to give 100% and Smith has to ensure that is the case and if that means disregarding a number of players so be it. This is arguably the biggest test of his managerial career and these next 3 months will shape his and our future."

 

... can we deduce you believe not producing what you say he has to produce, will have no impact on his job status at the end of the season?

And should it still be so, if the performances continue to be of the same calibre as yesterday? In other words, should the manner of our relegation, if it does materialise actually matter?

Personally, I think it should. An utter capitulation between now and the end of the year would be a damning personal failure and could set a similarly negative tone for a new season in the Championship.

If he doesn't get the reaction you mention, I think he's done for.

[hippo]

I actually think if smith doesn't get a reaction from the players that could be more damming than relegation. If we get relegated by the skin of our teeth - you could cite the massive rebuilding job that last summer required - and promotion not even in his first full season. But many more surrenders like yesterday and the owners will  see that he can't recover - even in the championship.

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

I actually think if smith doesn't get a reaction from the players that could be more damming than relegation. If we get relegated by the skin of our teeth - you could cite the massive rebuilding job that last summer required - and promotion not even in his first full season. But many more surrenders like yesterday and the owners will  see that he can't recover - even in the championship.

Well the bottom 3 keeps losing.

It's a miracle that we're still 17th.

[foreveryoung]

I doubt the owners will be happy with a roll over at Wembley, will see.

[Elton]

As annoyed as I am about yesterday’s performance, we have seen the limitations of the squad laid bare in some away games bar a couple of exceptions, yet at home we have been generally good, again with a couple of exceptions.

I’m not sure if Smith can’t ‘Park the Bus’ or if this squad doesn’t have the personnel to do so. Our lack of genuine pace away from home is a massive weakness. I’m not sure we can blame our Head Coach for this.

I do agree we need to change the approach away from home but it’s difficult to see how with the current available squad. We can bring in Jota, Hourihane, Lansbury, Trezeguet (from the start), Baston. That sounds like it could make things a lot worse.

Unfortunately average teams having 20 plus shots at our goal is par for the course this season and an indicator of our midfield and upfront issues more than defence, as we can’t play in the opposition’s half away from home and the ball keeps coming back.

Fortunately Smith’s approach bears fruit at home and with 6 home and 5 aways left I still believe we have enough to get over the line. Stay up we’ll improve the squad I would rather stick with Smith than risk another manager not working out. Our issue is the squad balance and strength more than the Head Coach. That’s not to say Smith shouldn’t be criticised but at this stage of the season with a new team, 7 league wins and a cup final isn’t sacking territory.

[villalad21]

Just now, Elton said:

As annoyed as I am about yesterday’s performance, we have seen the limitations of the squad laid bare in some away games bar a couple of exceptions, yet at home we have been generally good, again with a couple of exceptions.

I’m not sure if Smith can’t ‘Park the Bus’ or if this squad doesn’t have the personnel to do so. Our lack of genuine pace away from home is a massive weakness. I’m not sure we can blame our Head Coach for this.

I do agree we need to change the approach away from home but it’s difficult to see how with the current available squad. We can bring in Jota, Hourihane, Lansbury, Trezeguet (from the start), Baston. That sounds like it could make things a lot worse.

Unfortunately average teams having 20 plus shots at our goal is par for the course this season and an indicator of our midfield and upfront issues more than defence, as we can’t play in the opposition’s half away from home and the ball keeps coming back.

Fortunately Smith’s approach bears fruit at home and with 6 home and 5 aways left I still believe we have enough to get over the line. Stay up we’ll improve the squad I would rather stick with Smith than risk another manager not working out. Our issue is the squad balance and strength more than the Head Coach. That’s not to say Smith shouldn’t be criticised but at this stage of the season with a new team, 7 league wins and a cup final isn’t sacking territory.

He tried to park the bus against Sheff Utd.

I guess he decided to never do that again because we lost.

The 1st half defensively was decent though.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Kingman said:

McGinn aside that was just about as strong a team as we could put out

I Dont think Pep could get a tune out of this shower 

That is the interesting question, we can only speculate on...is it him or is it them or is it both?

just a thought...

Targett- 14.....Gilbert -5.........Luiz 15.....Nakamba 11 ......El Ghazi.....8......Trez 10    throw in Wes 22

That is 85 million spent, on those players

I will leave it for you to make your own mind up.....but if Dean is saying he can't get a tune out of them and on the evidence he is......we really are up against it.

 

[sharkyvilla]

I think for us to stay up Dean has to be proactive and change the formation more often.  Overall there are both pros and cons to playing either 3 at the back or 4 but it seems after so many games playing one way, the opposition are pretty smart at finding a way of completely nullifying us (which is basically nullifying Jack).  Slipping into the back 4 did actually make us look better I thought yesterday, still not great but I thought our passing from the back got a bit better.  The pros that going to the back 3 and conceding fewer goals from corners seems to have ended as going forward we arent incisive enough.  I suggested before yesterday's game moving Jack back into central midfield to get the ball deeper as Drinkwater and Luiz just aren't doing enough there.  Stick 2 up top with Baston and Samatta to give their centre halves more to think about.

[Nabby]

2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I think for us to stay up Dean has to be proactive and change the formation more often.  Overall there are both pros and cons to playing either 3 at the back or 4 but it seems after so many games playing one way, the opposition are pretty smart at finding a way of completely nullifying us (which is basically nullifying Jack).  Slipping into the back 4 did actually make us look better I thought yesterday, still not great but I thought our passing from the back got a bit better.  The pros that going to the back 3 and conceding fewer goals from corners seems to have ended as going forward we arent incisive enough.  I suggested before yesterday's game moving Jack back into central midfield to get the ball deeper as Drinkwater and Luiz just aren't doing enough there.  Stick 2 up top with Baston and Samatta to give their centre halves more to think about.

Yesterday was obvious the formation wasn't working and we waited to log to make a change 

Bournemouth away the same , then when they went to 10 men we continued with 3cbs when we needed a goal ...I know you have to try and let a game settle sometimes but you also need to be more proactive when things are not working.

[TRO]

51 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He tried to park the bus against Sheff Utd.

I guess he decided to never do that again because we lost.

The 1st half defensively was decent though.

If you are slow to the ball or don't attack the ball, setting up just defensively won't suffice...it still requires action an ability to stop an opponent as fairly as you can.

To play with an appreciation of defending well, requires more than just getting players behind the ball, just funneling back is retreating, not defending.....its an art, a skill.

The whole ethos at BMH is not geared to defending  with any aplomb imo.

[wilko154]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

What I'd like to see, as others have suggested, is us to go back to 4 at the back and pack the midfield doing away with the wide men. The way we are set up now regardless of 5/4/ or 3 at the back means we are so open in the middle we are reliant on keeping the ball and dominating possession otherwise we are easily opened up. We don't look after the ball though as arguably ours players aren't good enough. Smith has been naive in thinking we can go into Premier League games as one of the worst teams in the league and set up/play as we did in the Championship where we were one of the better teams..

Completely agree, I've been saying this for weeks. We waste players out in the wide areas with both a winger and a wing back on each side, it means we are way too open in the midfield and we get overrun constantly. A midfield three with 5 at the back, or moving to a back 4 with four in the midfield would help massively.

We also need the players to show some fight as they did against Tottenham.

A lot of people are blaming Smith but I don't think anyone thought the players would perform so poorly a week after putting in one of the performances of the season.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Read a few posts on here and social media saying Smith is only keeping his job because he is an Aston Villa fan. I think we need to give our very successful businessman owners a bit more credit than to think they would keep the most important person at the club in a job regardless of how poor he was doing based on who he supports. I'd love that be the case in a way as it gives me hope I may still get a crack at managing us but let's get real here.

The reason he is still here is based on what he has done since he arrived 17 months ago. The promotion, the taking us to a cup final and the keeping us in with a decent chance of staying up.

I think the owners like most of us knew this season would be a struggle and that staying up would be a success. For me knowing that we would struggle meant I had factored in that we would either struggle defensively, to score goals or both. What I hadn't bargained for was the kind of effortless crap we served up yesterday and over the  last couple of months against Watford away and for much of the game against Southampton at home and first half against Brighton away. When you get 2 or 3 players not putting a shift in I'd be pointing the finger at those individuals when you get 7 or 8 not putting in a shift then the finger needs to be firmly pointed at the manager.

I am not sure what he does from here but I am confident he won't be sacked. What I'd like to see, as others have suggested, is us to go back to 4 at the back and pack the midfield doing away with the wide men. The way we are set up now regardless of 5/4/ or 3 at the back means we are so open in the middle we are reliant on keeping the ball and dominating possession otherwise we are easily opened up. We don't look after the ball though as arguably ours players aren't good enough. Smith has been naive in thinking we can go into Premier League games as one of the worst teams in the league and set up/play as we did in the Championship where we were one of the better teams.

It is a big test for Smith now. We have served up similar performances to yesterday at Watford away and bounced back to beat Burnley, got trounced by City and bounced back to beat Watford and Leicester. He needs to get a reaction again but not one that lasts 1 or 2 games but for the rest of this season. The bare minimum for us to have any hope is for every player to give 100% and Smith has to ensure that is the case and if that means disregarding a number of players so be it. This is arguably the biggest test of his managerial career and these next 3 months will shape his and our future.

I agree totally, with Paragraphs 3,4,5.

However:

• The cup final, I will reserve my judgement on the final outcome, but the double header against Leicester was commendable, Liverpool was a bit of a farce.....but the final will be interesting.
• I don't think he has given us a decent chance of staying up, with 52 goals deficit, he has done anything but give us a decent chance, the fact we are in the mix, with a rabbits foot in hand, is not what I expected, I did not expect us to be so easy to beat......all the pundits on all the programmes are all saying the teams with the most goals against are usually the ones that go down, we show no signs of that changing with our shots against us, record, its appalling....and he has to be held to account for that.
• Smith being a Villa fan has no relevance to me either way....its just cosmetic, kinda nice.

Edited February 23, 2020 by TRO

[M_Afro]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Well the bottom 3 keeps losing.

It's a miracle that we're still 17th.

The problem is, they are losing their tough games. We should be pulling ahead to build a cushion when our tough games start. It’s too late now. We are absolutely gone. The only two glimmers of hope are that Smith will be replaced now and the return of SJM. Otherwise it is very dark indeed!

[sparrow1988]

19 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is the interesting question, we can only speculate on...is it him or is it them or is it both?

just a thought...

Targett- 14.....Gilbert -5.........Luiz 15.....Nakamba 11 ......El Ghazi.....8......Trez 10    throw in Wes 22

That is 85 million spent, on those players

I will leave it for you to make your own mind up.....but if Dean is saying he can't get a tune out of them and on the evidence he is......we really are up against it.

 

That's roughly an average rate these days for players in those positions and at our level. Look at Joelinton at Newcastle. He cost 40mill and he has scored 1 goal in 27 matches and he's started every game nearly. Haller is the same at West Ham also 40mill. City are buying full backs for 50 million a pop. Of course there is value to be had in the transfer market but it's getting harder and harder to find it. What did Palace pay for Benteke? Maupay for Brighton scored his first goal in two months yesterday and cost roughly the same as Wes and has roughly the same strike rate of 1 in 4. 

If we finish 17th then it's money well spent as far as I am concerned. We can build upon this in the summer, not like last summer where we could only put the foundations in place. All hanging on staying up of course.