Dean Smith

[handsworthvilla]

On 17/02/2020 at 00:51, screwdriver said:

Drinkwater should start................ with Nkamba. We beat Watford and got a decent point at Brighton when they start together.

 

 

We were losing both of those games when Drinkwater was substituted. In fact in both games it was his replacement who played a part in us getting the points (Luiz assist vs Brighton and Luiz equaliser vs Watford). He has played 4 games for us in the PL and he's been substituted 4 times, on each occasion we've been losing.  He can't take any credit for any points.

[Woody1000]

21 minutes ago, handsworthvilla said:

We were losing both of those games when Drinkwater was substituted. In fact in both games it was his replacement who played a part in us getting the points (Luiz assist vs Brighton and Luiz equaliser vs Watford). He has played 4 games for us in the PL and he's been substituted 4 times, on each occasion we've been losing.  He can't take any credit for any points.

It’s all perspective. Take the Watford game for example, I was angry at DS for starting Drinkwater over Luiz and felt by him coming on and helping us come back to win the game that I was ‘right’.

Others applauded DS for making the substitution that helped change the game, while I felt he got himself out of the s***.

Part of the problem with the game today is that facts and stats can be spun to suit whatever arguments you want to make - while it is factually correct that Drinkwater started those 2 games which we collected 4 points from, as you rightly pointed out he was substituted from both matches with us in losing positions.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, sne said:

As I said unless something extraordinary has happened most managers look and say the same thing after each game. It's an act or performance if you will.

I have no doubt Smith was fuming about the way we lost against Spurs, but he ain't gonna throw a tantrum in from of the media.

I think anyone who expected us to be anywhere except where we are in the league was being very naive and overly optimistic. 

I was certainly hoping we'd play better football and be both tighter at the back and better with the ball, but I still expected us to be around the relegation spots.

The squad looks like it does for obvious reasons so no need to go over them again. And there are at least 15 or so clubs with better or equal squads as us, a few of them are over performing and we are not. I'd say both Watford and West Ham "should" be above us in the table on paper. They are not. I'm really disappointed that we are behind clubs like Bournemouth and Newcastle, we really should not be. But swap those around and we are still in 17th spot. The margins at the bottom are tiny.

I thought we would be c 14th/15th....and we still might at the death, but thats being optimistic.

Edited February 19, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Woody1000 said:

It’s all perspective. Take the Watford game for example, I was angry at DS for starting Drinkwater over Luiz and felt by him coming on and helping us come back to win the game that I was ‘right’.

Others applauded DS for making the substitution that helped change the game, while I felt he got himself out of the s***.

Part of the problem with the game today is that facts and stats can be spun to suit whatever arguments you want to make - while it is factually correct that Drinkwater started those 2 games which we collected 4 points from, as you rightly pointed out he was substituted from both matches with us in losing positions.

interesting point

I don't ignore stats, but i still rely on my gut feel of a mood of the game.....what I see influences me the most.

but we have to accept,we all get that, not quite right on occasions, pariculalry on what bits we focus on.

My favourite position to watch in a game is a CDM, hence why I focus on that role, I think its the engine room, Thats the main meal for me, it tests my reading of the game......watching Jack is like a dessert, the cherry on the cake....I just sit back and relax, watching him

[handsworthvilla]

1 hour ago, Woody1000 said:

It’s all perspective. Take the Watford game for example, I was angry at DS for starting Drinkwater over Luiz and felt by him coming on and helping us come back to win the game that I was ‘right’.

Others applauded DS for making the substitution that helped change the game, while I felt he got himself out of the s***.

Part of the problem with the game today is that facts and stats can be spun to suit whatever arguments you want to make - while it is factually correct that Drinkwater started those 2 games which we collected 4 points from, as you rightly pointed out he was substituted from both matches with us in losing positions.

Very true - agree you can find evidence / stats to support pretty much any narrative you come up with. Pundits do it all the time. I find it incredibly frustrating watching a pundit after a game berating a manager on the losing team for all the team selection decisions he got wrong. If his errors were so obvious to the pundit, why didn't he mention them before the game started? 

[handsworthvilla]

2 hours ago, sne said:

As I said unless something extraordinary has happened most managers look and say the same thing after each game. It's an act or performance if you will.

I have no doubt Smith was fuming about the way we lost against Spurs, but he ain't gonna throw a tantrum in from of the media.

I think anyone who expected us to be anywhere except where we are in the league was being very naive and overly optimistic. 

I was certainly hoping we'd play better football and be both tighter at the back and better with the ball, but I still expected us to be around the relegation spots.

The squad looks like it does for obvious reasons so no need to go over them again. And there are at least 15 or so clubs with better or equal squads as us, a few of them are over performing and we are not. I'd say both Watford and West Ham "should" be above us in the table on paper. They are not. I'm really disappointed that we are behind clubs like Bournemouth and Newcastle, we really should not be. But swap those around and we are still in 17th spot. The margins at the bottom are tiny.

If you would have offered me our current position before the start of the season I would probably have taken it - I was realistic enough to know it would be a struggle and felt we were very light up top. 

As it has turned out, I'm actually disapointed with our position. But thats just because we have turned so many winning positions in to losses (Spurs x 2, Arsenal, Liverpool for example). Whilst I also thought our problem would be firepower, its been the opposite, and we've leaked goals horribly. 

[sne]

1 minute ago, handsworthvilla said:

If you would have offered me our current position before the start of the season I would probably have taken it - I was realistic enough to know it would be a struggle and felt we were very light up top. 

As it has turned out, I'm actually disapointed with our position. But thats just because we have turned so many winning positions in to losses (Spurs x 2, Arsenal, Liverpool for example). Whilst I also thought our problem would be firepower, its been the opposite, and we've leaked goals horribly. 

Agreed on all fronts.

Edited February 19, 2020 by sne

[rodders0223]

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

He should be more pragmatic away from home no doubt.

We are. It's not like we are playing free flowing champagne football and getting done.

We play terrible football, surrender the ball at will, play ultra conservative and still get caught out half a dozen times a game.

[Tomaszk]

3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

We are. It's not like we are playing free flowing champagne football and getting done.

We play terrible football, surrender the ball at will, play ultra conservative and still get caught out half a dozen times a game.

I don't think we're conservative at all. We try to press too high and that's why we get a kicking. If we sat deeper from the off and perhaps only pressed when teams got within 60 yards of our goal we wouldn't be opened up as much as we are.

I agree we get caught out half a dozen times, it's probably more sadly.

[lexicon]

21 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

We are. It's not like we are playing free flowing champagne football and getting done.

We play terrible football, surrender the ball at will, play ultra conservative and still get caught out half a dozen times a game.

[rodders0223]

20 minutes ago, lexicon said:

[lexicon]

41 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

[KentVillan]

On 19/02/2020 at 15:41, Woody1000 said:

Part of the problem with the game today is that facts and stats can be spun to suit whatever arguments you want to make

Bjorn Engels (I am not joking) is apparently one of the fastest players in the Premier League: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/revealed-six-fastest-players-premier-league

Quote

Foden's City teammate Kyle Walker was joint fourth along with Aston Villa defender Bjorn Engels - the pair were each recorded as running at 22.9mph this season.

It does make me wonder how much truth there is in a lot of the stats that get churned out. Surely Engels isn't the fourth fastest player in the Premier League!? If he is, then he must be the fourth slowest over the first 10 yards.

[Mazrim]

Very dubious claims there. Soyuncu fastest? Really?

But I guess it doesn't so much matter what the top speed of a player is as how fast he gets there. For instance, Engels might catch Raheem Sterling if he had 10 seconds to do it, but you have a second or two in most situations.

[lexicon]

7 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Very dubious claims there. Soyuncu fastest? Really?

But I guess it doesn't so much matter what the top speed of a player is as how fast he gets there. For instance, Engels might catch Raheem Sterling if he had 10 seconds to do it, but you have a second or two in most situations.

Quite - there's a lot of sprinting in football and quick acceleration is arguably more important than a high top speed. 

[Herman22]

I what DS said in the presser about Drinkwater is right. He's decent on the ball, he's just very poor out of possession. There no doubt Nakemba is a real step up in terms of tackling and energy.

You have to wonder how our midfield will look when McGinn comes back. Surely he slots back in once fit so who plays along side him. Also, if Hourihane can't get in the team now he doesn't have much chance with McGinn back. 

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Bjorn Engels (I am not joking) is apparently one of the fastest players in the Premier League: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/revealed-six-fastest-players-premier-league

It does make me wonder how much truth there is in a lot of the stats that get churned out. Surely Engels isn't the fourth fastest player in the Premier League!? If he is, then he must be the fourth slowest over the first 10 yards.

Speed and acceleration don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I don't doubt the stats, I'm sure Engels is that fast. But if you lose the first yard through acceleration it's not as effective as it could be.

 

Still, it's still impressive.

 

Edit: assumed the stats were coming from Opta. Having checked the link I can't see a source.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Stevo985

[Tom13]

10 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Bjorn Engels (I am not joking) is apparently one of the fastest players in the Premier League: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/revealed-six-fastest-players-premier-league

It does make me wonder how much truth there is in a lot of the stats that get churned out. Surely Engels isn't the fourth fastest player in the Premier League!? If he is, then he must be the fourth slowest over the first 10 yards.

He might be but takes him at least half an hour to get up to full speed. In FM terms:

Pace 20

Acceleration 1

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, Herman22 said:

I what DS said in the presser about Drinkwater is right. He's decent on the ball, he's just very poor out of possession. There no doubt Nakemba is a real step up in terms of tackling and energy.

You have to wonder how our midfield will look when McGinn comes back. Surely he slots back in once fit so who plays along side him. Also, if Hourihane can't get in the team now he doesn't have much chance with McGinn back. 

Be tempted to go back to 433 with:

Douglas - Nakamba - McGinn

AEG - Samatta - Grealish

[KentVillan]

16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Speed and acceleration don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I don't doubt the stats, I'm sure Engels is that fast. But if you lose the first yard through acceleration it's not as effective as it could be.

 

Still, it's still impressive.

 

Edit: assumed the stats were coming from Opta. Having checked the link I can't see a source.

Oh I know - and actually it shows how stats can be misused, because top speed is largely irrelevant in football, where usually all that counts is the first 5-10 yards.

But still, can anyone remember Engels hitting that kind of speed? You’d notice it, surely?