Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: It really is not harsh. His last appearance for us was almost a joke, he could barely control the ball without tripping over himself, literally. I get that SB did not use 'the kids' but which kids should he have used as I've seen barely anything from any of them to suggest they should be in the first team, every year we hear (often via SGC) about the wonderful talents we have and yet, none of them ever make it. We have one academy product (Grealish) in the first team squad right now, for me that's an indictment of what we're producing, not the Manager (whoever the Manager may be). He has been out a long time. Kodjia has been out longer and look how long he has been out. Green is a lot younger he needs time. Every player has a bad game. Bruce loaned out Clark who has looked decent. He didn't give sulihan a go either He just kept flogging him out. Bruce didn't like using youngsters thats a fact. How do you expect them to get better if your loaning the likes of onomah and putting them ahead of your own? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 55 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: He is no worse than Chester, If anything he makes more tackles, more interceptions & clearances per game. That's without taking into account that he wins everything in the air. "the kids" are massively overrated by many on here who see/hear a name and get carried away often without even seeing them play. As proven by many when they do actually make the squad they are simply not good enough even for the bench except in case of dire emergency like Davis last year where he came in, did well for a month or so with no other real options available but then just faded away. He is no worse than chester? Chester although has struggled this year is 10x the defender of jedinak. There is absolutely zero comparison at cb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Mazrim said: Jedinak is no worse than Chester? wow... on current form its hard to argue. Chester has had a stinking season so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: on current form its hard to argue. Chester has had a stinking season so far He's hardly played with another CB all season, apart from teh one at RB, and lots of RB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just now, romavillan said: He's hardly played with another CB all season, apart from teh one at RB, and lots of RB's. even last night he had a pretty poor game and played some dangerously bad passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Kingman said: Yeah followed by Forest, Leeds, Stoke and QPR on NYD! All around the 40k mark me thinks, Keep this up and i reckon the half season ticket sales will also be at record highs. Unfortunately it's all dependant on the result. If we lose on Saturday then the majority won't return to Villa Park for a while... Fortunately I think we will improve drastically over the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted October 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, wilko154 said: Unfortunately it's all dependant on the result. If we lose on Saturday then the majority won't return to Villa Park for a while... Fortunately I think we will improve drastically over the next few games. I agree. Lose two or three on the bounce and the gates will soon dip again, but I don’t think that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: He has been out a long time. Kodjia has been out longer and look how long he has been out. Green is a lot younger he needs time. Every player has a bad game. Bruce loaned out Clark who has looked decent. He didn't give sulihan a go either He just kept flogging him out. Bruce didn't like using youngsters thats a fact. How do you expect them to get better if your loaning the likes of onomah and putting them ahead of your own? Well he obviously felt Onomah was better, to be fair from what I've seen in competitive first team football I'd probably agree with him. And I thought Onomah was bang average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: It really is not harsh. His last appearance for us was almost a joke, he could barely control the ball without tripping over himself, literally. I get that SB did not use 'the kids' but which kids should he have used as I've seen barely anything from any of them to suggest they should be in the first team, every year we hear (often via SGC) about the wonderful talents we have and yet, none of them ever make it. We have one academy product (Grealish) in the first team squad right now, for me that's an indictment of what we're producing, not the Manager (whoever the Manager may be). The problem comes from fans writing him off after one poor performance. Last season prior to injury he was brilliant, it was always going to take him time to get up to speed. Now, with the operation he's been able to have at Portsmouth, I think he will recover and get back up to speed with them ahead of next season. The same thing is currently happening with Nyland, he's been written off by fans off the back of some poor performances, yet he's come into England and played in an badly setup team with a poor defence. As for the academy, we have some great young players coming through in O'Hare, Doyle-Hayes, Clarke, Suliman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Zatman said: on current form its hard to argue. Chester has had a stinking season so far I agree that Chester has been below par compared to last season when Terry organised him. However he's not had a consistent partner, had a midfield leaking runners and no organisation from management. Jedinak on the other hand is not a centre half. He's a liability there. So I find it very easy to argue that its ridiculous to say Jefinsk is no worse than Chester. Watch how many times Smith plays Jedi at the back. Im guessing not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, wilko154 said: The problem comes from fans writing him off after one poor performance. Last season prior to injury he was brilliant, it was always going to take him time to get up to speed. Now, with the operation he's been able to have at Portsmouth, I think he will recover and get back up to speed with them ahead of next season. The same thing is currently happening with Nyland, he's been written off by fans off the back of some poor performances, yet he's come into England and played in an badly setup team with a poor defence. As for the academy, we have some great young players coming through in O'Hare, Doyle-Hayes, Clarke, Suliman. We always have 'great players' coming through. The problem is that they don't come through. Green was not sidelined after one poor performance, he was shit every time he appeared earlier this season (which okay, was not a large sample size but still, you can only go off what you see). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 27 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: We always have 'great players' coming through. The problem is that they don't come through. Green was not sidelined after one poor performance, he was shit every time he appeared earlier this season (which okay, was not a large sample size but still, you can only go off what you see). thats not how you deal with young players though. Declan Rice had a nightmare vs Liverpool and dragged off at half time. Pellegrini didnt shove him out on loan or to reserves. dropped him for game or 2 and now he is one of West Ham better players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, Zatman said: thats not how you deal with young players though. Declan Rice had a nightmare vs Liverpool and dragged off at half time. Pellegrini didnt shove him out on loan or to reserves. dropped him for game or 2 and now he is one of West Ham better players Yep, hence why I said it was not based off a single poor performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted October 17, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Adam2003 said: Agreed. A lot on here will dismiss this but I think Bruce came in at the lowest point I have seen Villa (some have longer memories of the old 3rd Division I know!). Smith comes in at a really positive time, other than missing a centre back. However that’s not worth debating too much - some will give Bruce credit and some won’t - the main thing is I think Smith can take us on and improve us further, and hopefully the next manager can do the same when we are back in the PL etc. Exactly. There are some definite squad deficiencies, but everything about the club is better than when Bruce arrived. Better owners, better off pitch setup (i hope!), better finances, better squad in general and we're not in a downward spiral. It's still not ideal. Bruce undid a lot of good work in the past few months. But in general I think we're much better placed for Smith to move us forward. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Off topic lads slightly, is it common practice to have a good few of the u23s training with the first team squad during the international break ? Surprised to see o'hare and doyle-hayes training yesterday . Smith hardly made that call and he's barely in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Bruce didn't like using youngsters thats a fact. How do you expect them to get better if your loaning the likes of onomah and putting them ahead of your own? Honestly I think that's the opposite of a fact. It's a myth. I think our youngster usage will remain pretty much the same under Smith. We might see someone chanced at the back given our deficiencies there. But I don't expect many others to feature further forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Smith will bring them into training with the seniors and if they deserve a chance they'll get one. Bruce didn't even take training so had no opinion on them. Which I find to be terribly negligent. For our youngsters it will be massively different. They will still have to take their chances - which is as it should be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I half agree. I think he's come into a much more favourable situation than Bruce did. When it comes to the fans' perception of him perhaps, but I think the 2 situations are eerily similar. Both came in mid-October with the club in the bottom half. Both had unbalanced squads to contend with (back then it was no midfield, this time it's no defence). Both have wonderfully stocked squads apart from the aforementioned deficiencies. I would say that Smith might be more restricted in January due to FFP than Bruce was who splurged in his first January window iirc. I'd say Smith is luckier in the sense that the league this season seems to be much tighter. Put a little run together and we could be right up there, whereas Newcastle and Brighton ran away with the league in Bruce's first season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Well he obviously felt Onomah was better, to be fair from what I've seen in competitive first team football I'd probably agree with him. And I thought Onomah was bang average. I disagree. I thought onomah was very over rated by spurs and half the time didn't seem interested. I think I would have preferred to have given o hare more sof an opportunity 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Honestly I think that's the opposite of a fact. It's a myth. I think our youngster usage will remain pretty much the same under Smith. We might see someone chanced at the back given our deficiencies there. But I don't expect many others to feature further forward. It is a fact for his time here and here is why. How many times did he use stick with youngsters in league games consistently? The only youth players you can rely say he used was green and davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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