brummybloke Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Like it or not Smith is here to stay until at least 10 games into next season. I want him to do well, I was getting use to the clever play and lots of goals, that didn't last long! We keep falling into this trap of all out attack or all out defence, the forest game seemed to change everything. It really isn't difficult for us to stick with s system with the players we have. People were moaning Bruce picked players to defend and rely on one bit of magic to win a game but people are defending our terrible record as grealish is out ? So the same thing as Bruce then ? I would expect Smith to have 3 or 4 formations he can switch to within a game which suit the players he picks. The despair is that the goals have slowed down for but against they are continuing and the general play has dropped off massively. Again argument that Smith has rubbish to work with ? The same ones who hammered derby and made middlesborough look shocking ? He's panicked after letting in 5 and is fumbling around for ways to change things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, ViewFromT2 said: Kinda proved my point chap If you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 In fairness to Smith we started out playing good passing football but alarmingly this has went back to long balls, especially against Sheff Utd. Cant just be Grealish and Tuanzebe. Is it more to do with we were conceding to many goals and its his way/Terrys to try and eradicate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, brummybloke said: 1) I would expect Smith to have 3 or 4 formations he can switch to within a game which suit the players he picks. 2) The despair is that the goals have slowed down for but against they are continuing and the general play has dropped off massively. 3) Again argument that Smith has rubbish to work with ? The same ones who hammered derby and made middlesborough look shocking ? 4) He's panicked after letting in 5 and is fumbling around for ways to change things 3—we had Grealish and Tuanzebe. Smith's team with Grealish vs. Bruce's team with Grealish are incomparable. We were making the most of him under Smith, attacking very well, but with Bruce we were all bad (except ironically the Brentford game). When people moan about what Smith has to work with, you and we all know that people are talking about the deficient squad as exposed when we lost Grealish and then Tuanzebe. 4—I think this is reading into things a bit. Forest was the 28th December. The next game we beat Boro 3-0, the next we should have beaten West Brom but were cheated out of a win. We lost Grealish too. I think more than anything losing Grealish has forced him to change things—Hourihane was caught out for goals against a couple of teams that turned wins into draws. 2—Depends. We did just play one of the best teams in the league and let in three. The two games before we let in one against two of the worst teams in the league. 1—We have many shit players. Too soon to judge anyway, which was your point at the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, HeyAnty said: In fairness to Smith we started out playing good passing football but alarmingly this has went back to long balls, especially against Sheff Utd. Cant just be Grealish and Tuanzebe. Is it more to do with we were conceding to many goals and its his way/Terrys to try and eradicate it. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: we had Grealish and Tuanzebe. Yeah yeah and soon they are back and this excuse will no longer be valid. Edited February 12, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, brummybloke said: Like it or not Smith is here to stay until at least 10 games into next season. Hope this isn't the way we go about business again. Either the club have faith in Smith and what he is doing and let him continue even when we hit rough patches like now and if so be it at the start of next season. Or the feel he is not up to the task at hand and feel the club need a change. Then they should do it as soon as this season ends and get a new manager in as soon as possible. Giving someone 10 games or whatever only to sack them early in the season is the worst way to do it as it makes the summer and pre season pointless and gives the new manager coming in a poor hand to work from. As we've seen so, so many times. Like our last 2 managerial appointments for example. For me Smith has the rest of the season to show he is building something here, with no full backs brought in promotion is out the window so we'll have to look for other things. But if we look as abject, devoid of ideas and wide open when the season ends in May then I honestly don't know if he is the guy to take us forward. With that in mind, Smith didn't create this mess so as of now I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. Things need to get better thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: 3—we had Grealish and Tuanzebe. Smith's team with Grealish vs. Bruce's team with Grealish are incomparable. We were making the most of him under Smith, attacking very well, but with Bruce we were all bad (except ironically the Brentford game). When people moan about what Smith has to work with, you and we all know that people are talking about the deficient squad as exposed when we lost Grealish and then Tuanzebe. 4—I think this is reading into things a bit. Forest was the 28th December. The next game we beat Boro 3-0, the next we should have beaten West Brom but were cheated out of a win. We lost Grealish too. I think more than anything losing Grealish has forced him to change things—Hourihane was caught out for goals against a couple of teams that turned wins into draws. 2—Depends. We did just play one of the best teams in the league and let in three. The two games before we let in one against two of the worst teams in the league. 1—We have many shit players. Too soon to judge anyway, which was your point at the beginning. I'm more disappointed that we didn't switch to a plan b when grealish was not an option. We look lost and I expected Smith to have a robust system in place for such injuries. While grealish is important, he isn't the be all and end all or shouldn't be, for how we play. I was loving things, excited for each game but now I'm half expecting a huge loss half the time as when he picks the wrong players or tactics and it's clearly not working he leaves it far too late or does nothing. Each game is different and unless we have our best team out, our tactics or players need to change slightly to suit who we play. With our first choice team we should stick to how we play and let them concern themselves with us. If green is as inconsistent crossing as he was against Sheffield United for the next game or two I would be putting him behind tammy so he only has 1 or 2 to burst through before being directly on goal. Just things like that, green has a great shot on him and having him in front of goal may be better especially if we play more direct in some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, sne said: Hope this isn't the way we go about business again. Either the club have faith in Smith and what he is doing and let him continue even when we hit rough patches like now and if so be it at the start of next season. Or the feel he is not up to the task at hand and feel the club need a change. Then they should do it as soon as this season ends and get a new manager in as soon as possible. Giving someone 10 games or whatever only to sack them early in the season is the worst way to do it as it makes the summer and pre season pointless and gives the new manager coming in a poor hand to work from. As we've seen so, so many times. Like our last 2 managerial appointments for example. For me Smith has the rest of the season to show he is building something here, with no full backs brought in promotion is out the window so we'll have to look for other things. But if we look as abject, devoid of ideas and wide open when the season ends in May then I honestly don't know if he is the guy to take us forward. With that in mind, Smith didn't create this mess so as of now I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. Things need to get better thou. I'm not saying changing manager after 10 games is ideal, that's been the pattern for the last few seasons. But after 10 games we are on 3 or 4 points I cant see anyone taking the risk it will improve. I just want us to succeed, smoth looked the perfect fit and I hope he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 54 minutes ago, villalad21 said: All these managers that only managed small clubs always fail here. Lambert, Bruce and now DS. That John Gregory and Graham Taylor were pretty crap while Houllier, Garde and Di Matteo were brilliant 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, brummybloke said: I'm more disappointed that we didn't switch to a plan b when grealish was not an option. We look lost and I expected Smith to have a robust system in place for such injuries. While grealish is important, he isn't the be all and end all or shouldn't be, for how we play. I was loving things, excited for each game but now I'm half expecting a huge loss half the time as when he picks the wrong players or tactics and it's clearly not working he leaves it far too late or does nothing. Each game is different and unless we have our best team out, our tactics or players need to change slightly to suit who we play. With our first choice team we should stick to how we play and let them concern themselves with us. If green is as inconsistent crossing as he was against Sheffield United for the next game or two I would be putting him behind tammy so he only has 1 or 2 to burst through before being directly on goal. Just things like that, green has a great shot on him and having him in front of goal may be better especially if we play more direct in some games. I hear what you're saying. I expect we'd still look pants though. I guess I look at it more that we are critically deficient in too many important positions and I think Smith has to more or less stick to his philosophy. It's as true to say sticking to your philosophy is important in the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, sne said: Giving someone 10 games or whatever only to sack them early in the season is the worst way to do it as it makes the summer and pre season pointless and gives the new manager coming in a poor hand to work from. I never agree with sacking someone mid season unless things are obvious and you are getting relegated and you need to change. I dont think we should have sacked Bruce until the end of the season either, it just disrupts the squad. If we decide to give him another season we need to stick by him at least till the end of the season. It's much easier for a new manager to come in the summer with a pre season, it's easier for the squad too. Edited February 12, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: I never agree with sacking someone mid season unless things are obvious and you are getting relegated and you need to change. If we decide to give him another season we need to stick by him at least till the end of the season. It's much easier for a new manager to come in the summer with a pre season. Pretty much yeah. Bruce needed to go no matter what. The issue was that he should have been let go much earlier. That's what ended us in this terrible situation this autumn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, sne said: Bruce needed to go no matter what. The issue was that he should have been let go much earlier. Why? I don't understand this. If we were in January and in a relegation battle i would understand, but we weren't. We sacked him in October, that's only 2 months and that is taking into account a difficult summer for the club. Hull were in a similar position based on results and managed to turn it around with the same manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, villalad21 said: Why? I don't understand this. If we were in January and in a relegation battle i would understand, but we weren't. We sacked him in October, that's only 2 months and that is taking into account a difficult summer for the club. Hull were in a similar position based on results and managed to turn it around with the same manager. I've gone through the reasons why so many times that I'm pretty sure everyone is bored by it. You'll find those posts in the Steve Bruce thread so I'll refrain from stating them once again in the Dean Smith thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, sne said: Pretty much yeah. Bruce needed to go no matter what. The issue was that he should have been let go much earlier. That's what ended us in this terrible situation this autumn. No, what put us in this terrible situation was not getting rid of Bruce in the summer. Half the fans were crying out for it. Thanks to a stupid poll in the Birm Mail our owners decided not to if rumors are to be believed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, sne said: I've gone through the reasons why so many times that I'm pretty sure everyone is bored by it. You'll find those posts in the Steve Bruce thread so I'll refrain from stating them once again in the Dean Smith thread. Bringing in DS has done nothing this season. We are finishing mid table, so sticking by Bruce till the summer wouldn't have changed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, HeyAnty said: No, what put us in this terrible situation was not getting rid of Bruce in the summer. Half the fans were crying out for it. Thanks to a stupid poll in the Birm Mail our owners decided not to if rumors are to be believed Well yeah, that what I meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Bringing in DS has done nothing this season. We are finishing mid table, so sticking by Bruce till the summer wouldn't have changed anything. That's a very narrow look at things but OK Edited February 12, 2019 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Bringing in DS has done nothing this season. We are finishing mid table, so sticking by Bruce till the summer wouldn't have changed anything. Bruce was taking us into a relegation battle. 1 win in 9 and we had played only 2 teams in the current top half of the table in his first 11 games and Sheffield united battered us We are actually in a better position in the table than when Bruce left but you already know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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