Demitri_C

Dean Smith

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10 hours ago, terrytini said:

Some of the football is dreadful. Far worse than his first month or so.

Having said that there’s a difference between the team that beat Boro so convincingly and yesterday’s.

Nyland, Axel, Jack, Elmo, Bolasie, Chester - now Kalinin, Hutton, Jedi, Elphick, Mings, Kodja.

Regardless of the different reasons for these changes there’s no question that in terms of possession/ passing football that first group, not including Mings but including Nyland, were considerably more comfortable with the ball.

Even watching us warm up is significantly different, the fast passing game they play looked intricate and clever for several weeks, on Saturday the Warm up was as poor as the game !

And it’s quite a change personnel wise.

In particular Jack and Axel were, crucially comfortable on the ball in a Smiths first couple of months.

We simply haven’t bought enough players who can play proper football over the last three years. We tended towards the grafters. So missing even one or two is enough.

For the first eight or so games we all but eliminated the “ channel ball” from the full backs, and the hoof to the isolated striker.

I’m sure there are good reasons it’s changed, and the lack of sufficient quality ball players is a big part.

Having said that, Smith has had 19 games.

Over those 19 games Leeds are Second, have 35 Points, have scored 29 and Conceeded 26 , plus 3

We have 29 points, scoring 36 and conceding 29, plus 7.

Given the miserable situation Smith came into, compared to Bielsa starting the season with Leeds, I’d say that’s not bad. It’s not great, but it’s not bad. And, in my view, a million miles away from meriting discussion of his position.

Take it one step further, if we had Won that One game against Leeds, rather than them, we’d be 2nd in the table of results since Smith arrived, on 32 points with Leeds but with a better goal difference.

Those who choose to think things are poor will no doubt do so regardless of this, but for those hoping for some reasons for optimism I hope it helps !

 

 

 

Very good post mate , another thing I’d question is if we have the legs to play smiths pressing game long term with this squad as we have several older players who seem to run out of steam - maybe he will be looking for a younger , fitter , team next season who can play the high press for 90 mins over a long season 

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9 hours ago, Dave-R said:

That's nice to see, can you do the same and compare to the likes of little, Atkinson and Gregory stats??

please..

I certainly can. 

Gregory: P:19 - W:15 - D:2 - L:2 - PTS: 47*

Little: P:19 - W:6 - D:8 - L:5 - PTS: 26

Atkinson: P:19 - W:9 - D:3 - L:7 - PTS: 30

 

* What an unbelievable start. Just to caveat this one, Gregory came in, in February and only had 9 games of that season so his stats have a summer in the middle. Still an unbelievable run of form. 

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5 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Very good post mate , another thing I’d question is if we have the legs to play smiths pressing game long term with this squad as we have several older players who seem to run out of steam - maybe he will be looking for a younger , fitter , team next season who can play the high press for 90 mins over a long season 

I think that's a good observation and I think that is exactly the kind of villa we will see under Smith. They are likely to make more mistakes than current team but if ur brings more success to us then great. 

Jedinak could not cope in this system he was well out of his depth. Elmo Hutton and Taylor also cannot so I expect all four of these will be gonecome the summer. 

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2 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

I certainly can. 

Gregory: P:19 - W:15 - D:2 - L:2 - PTS: 47*

Little: P:19 - W:6 - D:8 - L:5 - PTS: 26

Atkinson: P:19 - W:9 - D:3 - L:7 - PTS: 30

 

* What an unbelievable start. Just to caveat this one, Gregory came in, in February and only had 9 games of that season so his stats have a summer in the middle. Still an unbelievable run of form. 

 

 

That was the year that if the season was Jan to Jan we would have won the league...

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7 hours ago, villalad21 said:

We might as well have kept Bruce until the end of the season.

The majority of them obviously aren't suited in DS style of play and this season is just drifting to no man's land.

Who knows where we would be if Bruce was still in charge? Things can change fast in this league, just look at Hull earlier in the season in very bad form similar to us and suddenly thy go on a great run.

Sacking a manager mid season rarely work out well and the more i think about it the more i think keeping Bruce till the end of the season would be the better option. At least the majority of the players suited his style of play.

I agree with everything except keep bruce..

I Think if we had a of kept bruce we mite of been facing a relegation battle. It's true I think most of the players who were there under bruce are having a very tough time in this league. I dont think alot of our players are suited to much, as sad as it sounds I don't think they are even championship quality.

Of course I'm open to those players proving us wrong and showing us they are capable of playing Smiths style and being even championship quality. I think as it stands no championship side is going to touch many of what we have if or when we get rid in summer and beyond.

I think most will end up in the league down having to prove themselves all over again which mite do them the world of good.

Edited by Dave-R

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1 hour ago, Sam3773 said:

I certainly can. 

Gregory: P:19 - W:15 - D:2 - L:2 - PTS: 47*

Little: P:19 - W:6 - D:8 - L:5 - PTS: 26

Atkinson: P:19 - W:9 - D:3 - L:7 - PTS: 30

 

* What an unbelievable start. Just to caveat this one, Gregory came in, in February and only had 9 games of that season so his stats have a summer in the middle. Still an unbelievable run of form. 

 

 

So Gregory was one if the best and probably the last best manager we had, loved that era of football. So much good talent walked through the doors, had alot of internationals as well. 

Those were the days uh??

I still think our owners will bring that back and I have to believe that Smith is the start of something. As I said I think it's there with Smith and I think next season will truly start to show the results, I think If people give him the time he needs that Smith will nail it.

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8 hours ago, villalad21 said:

We might as well have kept Bruce until the end of the season.

The majority of them obviously aren't suited in DS style of play and this season is just drifting to no man's land.

Who knows where we would be if Bruce was still in charge? Things can change fast in this league, just look at Hull earlier in the season in very bad form similar to us and suddenly thy go on a great run.

Sacking a manager mid season rarely work out well and the more i think about it the more i think keeping Bruce till the end of the season would be the better option. At least the majority of the players suited his style of play.

Bruce was bringing us into a relegation battle. 1 win in 10 which was home vs mighty Rotherham who had chances to get a result and still persisting that Jedinak was better than Elphick or Axel 

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1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Bruce was bringing us into a relegation battle. 1 win in 10 which was home vs mighty Rotherham who had chances to get a result and still persisting that Jedinak was better than Elphick or Axel 

Hull were in a simiar situation.

I believe we sacked him too early.

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8 minutes ago, sne said:

I believe we sacked him a season and a half too late.

Should have been sacked when the 16/17 season ended.

I would have been happier never hiring him

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Just now, Zatman said:

I would have been happier never hiring him

Same here.

I see why they did it at the time, but for me it was always only ever going to end up like it did.

Tbf to him he did get us a position or 2 higher up the table that I thought he would last season.

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11 hours ago, terrytini said:

Atkinson got 30 points from his first 19, although he had the advantage of pre season) goal difference Plus 5

Little got 26 from his first 19, goal difference Plus 8.These results straddle a summer/ pre season/ transfer options.

Smith has 29, Plus 7.

Ron Saunders got 30, with Plus13. He had a full pre season.

Basically, Smiths record so far stands comparison to any of them except Gregory, and it’s not far off as good as any of his ruivals since he’s been here.

 

See i think this is a ridiculous comparison.  Smith's team is in div 2, which we are probably the biggest team in it.  These managers were playing against the top teams every week.

Its the same with this rubbish about Abraham scoring 20 goals and being compared against our greats.  If Villa were in the Vauxhall conference and i was up front, i might manage 20 goals.

Problem with us Villa fans is that we are starting to get comfortable with div 2 achievements and trying to compare them with past achievements when we were a top side .  

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1 minute ago, HeyAnty said:

See i think this is a ridiculous comparison.  Smith's team is in div 2, which we are probably the biggest team in it.  These managers were playing against the top teams every week.

Its the same with this rubbish about Abraham scoring 20 goals and being compared against our greats.  If Villa were in the Vauxhall conference and i was up front, i might manage 20 goals.

Problem with us Villa fans is that we are starting to get comfortable with div 2 achievements and trying to compare them with past achievements when we were a top side .  

What we need is a clear vision, plan and identity :) 

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8 minutes ago, hippo said:

What we need is a clear vision, plan and identity :) 

And for people to stop being happy with mediocrity.  No one should accept/be happy with 1 win in 12 in a second division.  

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One thing I would like to bring into perspective and I don't know if any of you do this is look at things from the other teams view.

If we look at the fans cams which I'll post below of the sheff utd match for anyone who wants to see, we can see how things change rapidly for even the darkhorses of the league and how there fans view it.  I seen this on YouTube from a sheff utd fans view, you will quickly see how they expect to go top of the league then the craziness of the championship season happens for them as much as it has for us in games.

I mean they go from 3-0 up to losing what was a guarenteed win for them. We not only score once or twice but we stage what is a pretty remarkable and dramatic comeback. You can see the disappointment from the sheffield utd fans but when that third goal hits from Greene  it's beyond unbelievable for them utd fans and they are as quiet as anything. So yes at that point in the game as it finishes we were the crazy loud ones for the last ten minutes, and for 80 mins they were the dominant force, which really goes to show that anything can happen this season from any direction.

I think instead of blaming anyone for performances ie our coach, staff or players which even Im guilty of, we must see it for what it is. I must honestly say that I think the real blame lies with a championship season where things are just absoloute manic, crazy and results are totally just all over the place.

https://youtu.be/WYbXc1ODmnI

Edited by Dave-R

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17 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

And for people to stop being happy with mediocrity.  No one should accept/be happy with 1 win in 12 in a second division.  

or maybe people need to realise we are no longer a powerhouse in English football and are a mediocre team now which has gone downhill for 10 years now

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19 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

And for people to stop being happy with mediocrity.  No one should accept/be happy with 1 win in 12 in a second division.  

It’s 2 wins in 11 games in this division and I don’t believe anyone is happy about it.

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2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

or maybe people need to realise we are no longer a powerhouse in English football and are a mediocre team now which has gone downhill for 10 years now

1 win in 12 isn't even mediocre. Its Ipswich form, slightly humorous that our 1 win was against Ipswich too. 

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Just now, Merson08 said:

1 win in 12 isn't even mediocre. Its Ipswich form, slightly humorous that our 1 win was against Ipswich too. 

Not wanting to make it seem like I’m defending the run, but exactly how hungover were people on Boxing Day that they’ve just forgotten the win against Swansea?

Can we just ignore results that we don’t like?

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Just now, Shropshire Lad said:

Not wanting to make it seem like I’m defending the run, but exactly how hungover were people on Boxing Day that they’ve just forgotten the win against Swansea?

Can we just ignore results that we don’t like?

Against my better judgement I took HeyAnty's 1 win in 12 as bible. I do think that the Hand of Rod completely derailed us. In the grand scheme of things we all want a winning Villa side. The results have been poor and I hope for a strong run to finish the season not for promotion, cause I feel thats gone, but for some form to carry us into next season. 

Boxing Day was certainly a rough day, even the Berocca before bed didn't help and the day after was even worse. 

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