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Dean Smith

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2 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

The first 19 games of our last two managers:

Smith: P:19 - W:7 - D:8 - L:4 - PTS: 29

Bruce: P:19 - W:7 - D:5 - L:7 - PTS: 26

Just for interest, how were the first 19 games under arguably our best manager for years:

O'Neill: P:19 - W:5 - D:10 - L:4 - PTS: 25

What about other high flyers? How were their first 19 at the clubs they're managing? 

Farke: P:19 - W:6 - D:6 - L:7 - PTS: 24

Jokanovic: P:19 - W:5 - D:6 - L:8 - PTS: 21

Add in to the mix, because you can, the 'excuses' of a widely injured squad with no settling, the complete lack of a defensive set up when he joined, operating under tight FFP restrictions in January, our best player out for most of that time and a chocolate goalkeeper, and he hasn't done too bad. 

But no. We're Aston Villa Football Club and unless our manager hits the ground with 19 W's under his belt, it's bedsheets out at dawn.

How’s Ole Gunnar getting on in his new job?

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4 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

How’s Ole Gunnar getting on in his new job?

I think that's a bit of an exception because of how they played, or didn't, for the last manager. They were seriously underpeforming before. Can you say the same for our players? 

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14 hours ago, Merson08 said:

This is grossly unfair to a large fanbase

I said I was surprised by the negativity of some people. You disagree, fair enough. I’m struggling to work out how you got to me being “Grossly unfair to a large fan base”. Perhaps just a slight overreaction?

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15 hours ago, hippo said:

weve won 1 game this year. ...and that was by a penalty against the bottom club.

I would hardly call expecting more indictive of instant gratification. 

I’m not saying the results are good, but I think there are lots of reasons for them that can’t be all directed at the manager. 

As for instant gratification, it’s a case of degrees and in footballing terms Smith hasn’t been here long at all.

The club aren’t just trying to tweak a few things, the new owners are attempting to change the entire philosophy of the club in both terms of business and football. To write off their choice of manager in such a short period of time I believe is as unfair as it is short sighted. 

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1 hour ago, Sam3773 said:

The first 19 games of our last two managers:

Smith: P:19 - W:7 - D:8 - L:4 - PTS: 29

Bruce: P:19 - W:7 - D:5 - L:7 - PTS: 26

Just for interest, how were the first 19 games under arguably our best manager for years:

O'Neill: P:19 - W:5 - D:10 - L:4 - PTS: 25

What about other high flyers? How were their first 19 at the clubs they're managing? 

Farke: P:19 - W:6 - D:6 - L:7 - PTS: 24

Jokanovic: P:19 - W:5 - D:6 - L:8 - PTS: 21

Add in to the mix, because you can, the 'excuses' of a widely injured squad with no settling, the complete lack of a defensive set up when he joined, operating under tight FFP restrictions in January, our best player out for most of that time and a chocolate goalkeeper, and he hasn't done too bad. 

But no. We're Aston Villa Football Club and unless our manager hits the ground with 19 W's under his belt, it's bedsheets out at dawn.

Wow, when you look at it like that he is doing a tremendous job.

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1 hour ago, Sam3773 said:

I think that's a bit of an exception because of how they played, or didn't, for the last manager. They were seriously underpeforming before. Can you say the same for our players? 

I think it is a fair comparison to be honest. At Championship level we are very similar to Man U at Premiership level. We are the biggest, best supported and most successful club in the championship with the highest of expectations from our fans. I also honestly believe that we have a squad of players capable of competing with anybody. We showed this against Derby, Middlesbrough and West Brom.

It is the job of the manager to get the best out of the players at his disposal. I do not believe that Smith is close to doing that, excepting the early matches. I hear lots of fans criticising the attitude of the players and yet surely it is the role of the manager to deal with that and eradicate any issues. 

I genuinely did not want Smith because my feeling is that managing AVFC is an entirely different prospect to anything he has done previously. That does not mean he cannot be successful but the risks associated with the appointment are large. I also hope that he proves me wrong but thus far I feel that my fears are proving to be correct. I do not buy into the opinion that he must be given time. If, by the end of the season, things have not improved, then I would get rid of him and show a bit more ambition with the next appointment. I really wanted Brendon Rogers and I really believe he, or someone of similar quality, is attainable if we show enough ambition.

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5 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

I think it is a fair comparison to be honest. At Championship level we are very similar to Man U at Premiership level. We are the biggest, best supported and most successful club in the championship with the highest of expectations from our fans. I also honestly believe that we have a squad of players capable of competing with anybody. We showed this against Derby, Middlesbrough and West Brom.

It is the job of the manager to get the best out of the players at his disposal. I do not believe that Smith is close to doing that, excepting the early matches. I hear lots of fans criticising the attitude of the players and yet surely it is the role of the manager to deal with that and eradicate any issues. 

I genuinely did not want Smith because my feeling is that managing AVFC is an entirely different prospect to anything he has done previously. That does not mean he cannot be successful but the risks associated with the appointment are large. I also hope that he proves me wrong but thus far I feel that my fears are proving to be correct. I do not buy into the opinion that he must be given time. If, by the end of the season, things have not improved, then I would get rid of him and show a bit more ambition with the next appointment. I really wanted Brendon Rogers and I really believe he, or someone of similar quality, is attainable if we show enough ambition.

I'm in a similar boat - I optimistically wanted Brendan Rodgers and cited concerns with Dean Smith prior to his appointment. I do, however, believe if Rodgers were on 19 games with the same result, there would be many more people wanting to give him time. 

I can only put that down to experience and form. Rodgers can't rubbish because he's proven at other clubs, something Smith doesn't have to back him up sadly. 

Where we differ is with the players. I don't believe they're good enough, especially to play the football Smith wants, with a high tempo requiring a more youthful set up. There are, of course, exceptions where we have played very well, but we had those moments under Bruce. The odd 'Lord mayor's show'. 

While I remain frustrated that we're not competing and the performances have been poor, Smith has to get summer for me, unless we go on a long spate of losses now. It would leave us in the same boat come October if he has a poor start next season, but it's only right he gets to drill his methodology into the team over the summer break, and bring some fresh legs into the team. 

The alternative is another rinse and repeat, and another manager some won't agree with. Currently though, I really do think he's doing as good with this squad as any manager could do. 

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2 hours ago, Sam3773 said:

The first 19 games of our last two managers:

Smith: P:19 - W:7 - D:8 - L:4 - PTS: 29

Bruce: P:19 - W:7 - D:5 - L:7 - PTS: 26

Just for interest, how were the first 19 games under arguably our best manager for years:

O'Neill: P:19 - W:5 - D:10 - L:4 - PTS: 25

What about other high flyers? How were their first 19 at the clubs they're managing? 

Farke: P:19 - W:6 - D:6 - L:7 - PTS: 24

Jokanovic: P:19 - W:5 - D:6 - L:8 - PTS: 21

Add in to the mix, because you can, the 'excuses' of a widely injured squad with no settling, the complete lack of a defensive set up when he joined, operating under tight FFP restrictions in January, our best player out for most of that time and a chocolate goalkeeper, and he hasn't done too bad. 

But no. We're Aston Villa Football Club and unless our manager hits the ground with 19 W's under his belt, it's bedsheets out at dawn.

Brilliant post. Thanks for going to the trouble of checking out the stats. We all just need to be realistic as far as what can be achieved in a short space of time and take into account our circumstances. 

Smith or anyone else won’t get a free ride from our ambitious owners, but they will get time, support and a fair crack of the whip. 

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34 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

I'm in a similar boat - I optimistically wanted Brendan Rodgers and cited concerns with Dean Smith prior to his appointment. I do, however, believe if Rodgers were on 19 games with the same result, there would be many more people wanting to give him time. 

I can only put that down to experience and form. Rodgers can't rubbish because he's proven at other clubs, something Smith doesn't have to back him up sadly. 

Where we differ is with the players. I don't believe they're good enough, especially to play the football Smith wants, with a high tempo requiring a more youthful set up. There are, of course, exceptions where we have played very well, but we had those moments under Bruce. The odd 'Lord mayor's show'. 

While I remain frustrated that we're not competing and the performances have been poor, Smith has to get summer for me, unless we go on a long spate of losses now. It would leave us in the same boat come October if he has a poor start next season, but it's only right he gets to drill his methodology into the team over the summer break, and bring some fresh legs into the team. 

The alternative is another rinse and repeat, and another manager some won't agree with. Currently though, I really do think he's doing as good with this squad as any manager could do. 

I hope you’re right! Time will tell I guess. I really want him to succeed. He is a good man whom, despite a ridiculous haircut, deserves our respect!

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2 hours ago, Sam3773 said:

The first 19 games of our last two managers:

Smith: P:19 - W:7 - D:8 - L:4 - PTS: 29

Bruce: P:19 - W:7 - D:5 - L:7 - PTS: 26

Just for interest, how were the first 19 games under arguably our best manager for years:

O'Neill: P:19 - W:5 - D:10 - L:4 - PTS: 25

What about other high flyers? How were their first 19 at the clubs they're managing? 

Farke: P:19 - W:6 - D:6 - L:7 - PTS: 24

Jokanovic: P:19 - W:5 - D:6 - L:8 - PTS: 21

Add in to the mix, because you can, the 'excuses' of a widely injured squad with no settling, the complete lack of a defensive set up when he joined, operating under tight FFP restrictions in January, our best player out for most of that time and a chocolate goalkeeper, and he hasn't done too bad. 

But no. We're Aston Villa Football Club and unless our manager hits the ground with 19 W's under his belt, it's bedsheets out at dawn.

This is the typical Camp 1 post I was on about. 

I think you find like me the fact we haven't won every game isn't why we are showing concern it's the manner of the performances absolutely no fight and looking like a bunch of strangers.

It's funny you should mention the FFP stopping us from signing players. The last few weeks it looks like we've signed a whole new team because it looks like they've never played together before. 

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20 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

This is the typical Camp 1 post I was on about. 

I think you find like me the fact we haven't won every game isn't why we are showing concern it's the manner of the performances absolutely no fight and looking like a bunch of strangers.

It's funny you should mention the FFP stopping us from signing players. The last few weeks it looks like we've signed a whole new team because it looks like they've never played together before. 

Last game we came back from 3 down to draw 3-3. If that doesnt show fight what does 

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16 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Last game we came back from 3 down to draw 3-3. If that doesnt show fight what does 

You mean we showed 15 minutes of fight, where was it for the first 80 minutes.

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1 hour ago, Stuartc445 said:

This is the typical Camp 1 post I was on about. 

I think you find like me the fact we haven't won every game isn't why we are showing concern it's the manner of the performances absolutely no fight and looking like a bunch of strangers.

It's funny you should mention the FFP stopping us from signing players. The last few weeks it looks like we've signed a whole new team because it looks like they've never played together before. 

What's funny is last season aside, "no fight and looking like a bunch of strangers" has pretty much summed this club up. 

Let's throw Smith onto the McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce pile and twist again. Eighth time lucky. 

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5 hours ago, Sam3773 said:

The first 19 games of our last two managers:

Smith: P:19 - W:7 - D:8 - L:4 - PTS: 29

Bruce: P:19 - W:7 - D:5 - L:7 - PTS: 26

Just for interest, how were the first 19 games under arguably our best manager for years:

O'Neill: P:19 - W:5 - D:10 - L:4 - PTS: 25

What about other high flyers? How were their first 19 at the clubs they're managing? 

Farke: P:19 - W:6 - D:6 - L:7 - PTS: 24

 Jokanovic: P:19 - W:5 - D:6 - L:8 - PTS: 21

Add in to the mix, because you can, the 'excuses' of a widely injured squad with no settling, the complete lack of a defensive set up when he joined, operating under tight FFP restrictions in January, our best player out for most of that time and a chocolate goalkeeper, and he hasn't done too bad. 

But no. We're Aston Villa Football Club and unless our manager hits the ground with 19 W's under his belt, it's bedsheets out at dawn.

Give this man a medal.

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2 minutes ago, striker said:

I think DS is caught in ' no man's land.'

He wants Villa to play his way and had Villa playing that way almost from the start of his tenure here.

However the loss to injury of Tuanzebe who was the connection from defence to midfield and then Grealish who connected the midfield to attack has pretty much decimated his preferred style of play. Even his new signing Carroll brought in for better ball retention in front of defence and to connect defence to midfield is not available to him due to a thigh strain.

I would hazzard a guess that if Tuanzebe and Grealish hadn't picked up those injuries then we would still be watching the same type of DS football we seen at the start of his tenure here.

Presently however Smith is trying to keep Villa in the promotion race with a style of football he doesn't want to play but has no real choice in the matter until his two best players are available again and indeed until he has the squad of players he wants.

 

This kind of reasoned analysis will get you shot on here. 

He should have won all 19 games, don’t you know? 

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2 hours ago, Stuartc445 said:

This is the typical Camp 1 post I was on about. 

I think you find like me the fact we haven't won every game isn't why we are showing concern it's the manner of the performances absolutely no fight and looking like a bunch of strangers.

It's funny you should mention the FFP stopping us from signing players. The last few weeks it looks like we've signed a whole new team because it looks like they've never played together before. 

This to me, stinks of a camp 37 post. 

Thats the camp where people expect Smith to be able to play a different brand of football with the useless, overpaid squad he inherited and without his best player. 

Or is that camp 42? I forget. 

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5 hours ago, M_Afro said:

How’s Ole Gunnar getting on in his new job?

You mean the bloke that most on here decided was not good enough for us and too mich of a risk? Shows what we know 🙂

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1 hour ago, Sam3773 said:

What's funny is last season aside, "no fight and looking like a bunch of strangers" has pretty much summed this club up. 

Let's throw Smith onto the McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Garde, Di Matteo, Bruce pile and twist again. Eighth time lucky. 

1st bit in Bold should mean the 2nd bit in bold shouldn't be there

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