Dean Smith

[markavfc40]

Having had some time to reflect on what I witnessed yesterday I think had you have seen yesterdays game, and in fairness the 3-4 games previous, you would never have known that was a Dean Smith managed team.

I see his teams as pressing high up the pitch, closing the opposition down, playing on the front foot, quick passing and movement and pushing plenty of players forward creating chances. I also see Dean Smiths sides as likely to be very open defensively. Since the WBA game we have maintained the being open defensively but the rest has gradually gotten worse to the point yesterday it was non existent.

I can't accept the argument that the players simply can't play his way. They showed from pretty much the moment he came in until full time against West Brom five weeks ago that they can play the way he wants us to very well. In fairness though regardless of any quality/ability you have on the ball any footballer should be capable of closing down and pressing high up the pitch if told to which are fundamentals of the way Smith plays.

Something seems to be seriously amiss here. We have gone from the performances against Boro, Derby, WBA, Sha and even in defeat at QPR where we were very good to lack lustre pretty much clueless crap served up yesterday, last week and to a lesser extent against QPR, Preston and Swansea (A).

It is pretty rare you get such a turnaround from one extreme to another and a period of playing some cracking stuff to then a period of serving up some dire crap. I have said before Grealish is a huge miss as I think he sets the tone and pace of the way we play and makes the whole team tick but we should not have fallen apart the way we have because one man has been out. We should have been capable of adapting our game to at least in part make up for his loss.

I don't have the answers and I am not sure the manager has at this point. You'd imagine he is saying the same things now as he was during our excellent run and if that is the case the players simply aren't now implementing what he is telling them. I think where Smith is culpable is that he is setting us up so as to allow teams acres of space in wide areas and he has to address that as we are being targeted out wide game after game now. 

This season can't just be allowed to drift along now. I think top 6 is unlikely but certainly not impossible. At the very least over the next 19 games though I want to see much more of what we saw in his first two months here and not the last month. We have seen even with what some consider not a great squad what Smith is capable of getting out of them and we have to get back to those levels.  It may also be the time to see the complete phasing out of Whelan, Thor, Adomah, Hutton, Taylor and lets give a run to the likes of O'Hare, Bree, Hause and Doyle Hayes. Maybe send Bolasie back if possible and bring Green back.

What can't be allowed to happen is for us to continue to see more of the tripe we have in the last few games with the same players as then we will go back to a toxic atmosphere at games and who knows where that will take us and Smith.

Edited January 13, 2019 by markavfc40

[Eastie]

1 hour ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

Yep, not a single shot on target yesterday. Absolutely ridiculous when you look at the calibre of our attacking players

Attitude is the problem for  me , lack of motivation and on the wages these players are getting they should be thoroughly ashamed  of themselves .

It happened under Bruce too and smith needs to a get a grip of this fast and get the best from his players or bring in a reserve or 2 to replace them - there seem to be players in this team who couldn’t give a toss as long as they are getting paid whatever garbage they serve up .

i would be recalling green and Clark ahead of the likes of Taylor and el ghazi 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Eastie

[MaVilla]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Add bite to a midfield when your losing? There is more bite from a man without his dentures in than whelan. He is garbage. Davis would have been a better option. His bullying and creating space is exactly what we needed. Apply pressure on their defence to help Tammy.

Elphick was not playing badly I don't get that sub still. Chester wasn't doing great but Jesus he was 100cx better than hause who I don't want to get on his back as he didn't look match fit to me. Another poor bit of management from Deano there.

I agree Davis would have been good.

In defence of DS in relation to Hause, i dont think anyone expect that "debut"

But i agree overall, the whole match was a mess, at least if we lose, lets lose playing the football we want to see, not lose AND play that dross!

[sne]

8 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

To be fair, the logic in what he was trying to do with the subs was sound, its just they didnt work.

He said bringing Whelan on was to add some bite to the midfield to ensure we got the ball / hunted the ball more, and could retain it (because Hourihane and BB were basically cravens and hid whenever possible), but unfortunately it didnt work.

Bringing Hause on, DS said it was to give us a ball playing defender to bring the ball out of defence and build from the back, which was also sound logically, as Tuanzebe used to do it for us, but this also didnt work as he was obviously nervous, and was thorwn in to the lions den a little.

 

The thought behind it might be sound, but the personnel brought in still was off. Not that we had any good options on the bench for these particular subs

This version of Whelan has as much bite as that dog Jesse from Family Guy and our ball playing defender Hause looked like a giraffe trying to have sex with a pilates ball.

It wasn't going to work ever.

It's OK, managers get it wrong sometimes.

[Bunnski]

12 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Average players that battered Derby and Boro away from home 3-0?

They are obviously underperforming and that is down to the manager, it's his job to get the best out of them.

It's exactly what Jose did when Man U played awful this season, playing down the team and players and look what happened when they sacked him. 

Eh what? He has inherited a team built by a different person. Mourinho had his own team that he built and still blamed the players so a silly comparison by yourself there. He deserves time, anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong!

[foreveryoung]

i'm not feeling this "it's not Smith's team". He has been brought in specifically to coach this squad into playing decent football, unlike that turgid stuff Bruce played. Yes we can bring a few in, but if we think we are going to change the whole team to fit in with Smith's way of playing, we are far from the reality. If this was the case I think we would have brought someone in more high profile.

[eholm]

2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I can only assume that the fitness levels aren't there to do this anymore, it has been a gruelling schedule in terms of number of games played over the past 3 weeks. Ultimately this can only be fixed in pre-season. 

100% this. Too many players too close to or over 30. They simply do not have the legs to continue playing the way Smith wants; they managed it for a few weeks but the capability has now gone after the multiple fixtures in short space of time. We will have to wait until the Summer for Smith to get a younger more energetic core to the squad as the majority of this one, in regards to the high press/attacking style, is finished.

[eholm]

48 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Having had some time to reflect on what I witnessed yesterday I think had you have seen yesterdays game, and in fairness the 3-4 games previous, you would never have known that was a Dean Smith managed team.

I see his teams as pressing high up the pitch, closing the opposition down, playing on the front foot, quick passing and movement and pushing plenty of players forward creating chances. I also see Dean Smiths sides as likely to be very open defensively. Since the WBA game we have maintained the being open defensively but the rest has gradually gotten worse to the point yesterday it was non existent.

I can't accept the argument that the players simply can't play his way. They showed from pretty much the moment he came in until full time against West Brom five weeks ago that they can play the way he wants us to very well. In fairness though regardless of any quality/ability you have on the ball any footballer should be capable of closing down and pressing high up the pitch if told to which are fundamentals of the way Smith plays.

Something seems to be seriously amiss here. We have gone from the performances against Boro, Derby, WBA, Sha and even in defeat at QPR where we were very good to lack lustre pretty much clueless crap served up yesterday, last week and to a lesser extent against QPR, Preston and Swansea (A).

It is pretty rare you get such a turnaround from one extreme to another and a period of playing some cracking stuff to then a period of serving up some dire crap. I have said before Grealish is a huge miss as I think he sets the tone and pace of the way we play and makes the whole team tick but we should not have fallen apart the way we have because one man has been out. We should have been capable of adapting our game to at least in part make up for his loss.

I don't have the answers and I am not sure the manager has at this point. You'd imagine he is saying the same things now as he was during our excellent run and if that is the case the players simply aren't now implementing what he is telling them. I think where Smith is culpable is that he is setting us up so as to allow teams acres of space in wide areas and he has to address that as we are being targeted out wide game after game now. 

This season can't just be allowed to drift along now. I think top 6 is unlikely but certainly not impossible. At the very least over the next 19 games though I want to see much more of what we saw in his first two months here and not the last month. We have seen even with what some consider not a great squad what Smith is capable of getting out of them and we have to get back to those levels.  It may also be the time to see the complete phasing out of Whelan, Thor, Adomah, Hutton, Taylor and lets give a run to the likes of O'Hare, Bree, Hause and Doyle Hayes. Maybe send Bolasie back if possible and bring Green back.

What can't be allowed to happen is for us to continue to see more of the tripe we have in the last few games with the same players as then we will go back to a toxic atmosphere at games and who knows where that will take us and Smith.

Some valid points, however, I genuinely believe the majority of our squad just do not have the energy levels and legs to play like Smith wants week in, week out. This is why the progressive dropping off from those earlier excellent levels are occurring. As per my previous post we need youth, pace and energy (and the associated motivation) to allow Smith to develop his playing style. The majority of our players have none of these and never will considering their age/career point.

[markavfc40]

12 minutes ago, eholm said:

Some valid points, however, I genuinely believe the majority of our squad just do not have the energy levels and legs to play like Smith wants week in, week out. This is why the progressive dropping off from those earlier excellent levels are occurring. As per my previous post we need youth, pace and energy (and the associated motivation) to allow Smith to develop his playing style. The majority of our players have none of these and never will considering their age/career point.

You could well be right here and I would be all for seeing us over the remainder of the season phase out the likes of Whelan, Hutton, Taylor, Thor, Adomah etc. Jedinak seems to have already been disregarded. A run in the side should be given to younger and you'd hope hungrier players in the likes of Hause, Bree, Doyle Hayes, O'Hare, Davis and if they could be called back Mitch Clark and Green. I'd also hope any further signings this month will meet that younger and hungrier criteria.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Quote

1 win in 8.   I don't think it's too arrogant to expect more from a club and team of our size and stature.

Quote

He’s Won 2 Of The last 7 Home games....

Quote

13 points from 9 games* from this run of fixtures is very poor. Forget everything else, he should be sacked for that alone.

 

*Currently 10 points from the last 9 games 

Quote

I scratch my head sometimes thinking how a team containing 5 or 6 from Grealish, El Ghazi, Hourihane, McGinn, Adomah, Kodjia, Abraham, Bolasie often look so clueless and create so little

Quote

Those talking about our defence need to look at Leeds as an example. Our defence is probably better than theirs man for man but they are coached better. You can organise a defence through coaching. I am not talking about set pieces but how you defend and play as a team. Closing down. Cutting off channels. Playing as one team with one strategy (This post from September 25th got 15 likes) 

 

A selection of quotes from the Bruce thread around September time. Interesting reading. 

 

[romavillan]

39 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

i'm not feeling this "it's not Smith's team". He has been brought in specifically to coach this squad into playing decent football, unlike that turgid stuff Bruce played. Yes we can bring a few in, but if we think we are going to change the whole team to fit in with Smith's way of playing, we are far from the reality. If this was the case I think we would have brought someone in more high profile.

He did that immediately successfully, the wheels have fallen off in the last month which coincided with Tuanzebe and Grealish out. They are both big misses, but I'm not sure to the extent we've seen us fall apart. At times yesterday it looked like McGinn versus Wigan, the rest just **** off. Smith needs to get us back to his basics of first touch, passing, movement, protecting the ball, pressing. If the players out yesterday apart from McGinn can't deliver that then he needs to make some drastic changes, he needs to find a core group of players he can trust to put a shift in and play as instructed and build from there. Right now I'd say that group is Tuanzebe, Grealish, McGinn and Abraham. I'd struggle to put anyone else in it to be honest.

The summer is huge for the club as a whole and for Smith particularly. All the optimism of the new owners getting things going in the right direction is evaporating, there is something very deeply wrong here. You can't say Smith isn't a good coach because look how he got the same players playing for 2 months, you can't say it's the board as they've been doing everything they can, saved us from financial ruin, made some good appointments. A lot of it has to be the playing staff then, and a lot of them will be going in the summer. 

It's looking grim but I think the board and Smith have to stick to their principles and get us through to the summer without completely falling to pieces and then take the opportunity to do some major surgery to the squad. 

[TRO]

Our game plan is clear ( from the players not the manager) we come out and attempt to play football from the off.....after about 10/20 minutes the passes start goin astray and the opposition start getting about us and our game goes to pot....we relinquish the initiative and start chasing the game pulling ourselves all out of shape.

We just start wrong, we should get about the opposition from from the off.

[DCJonah]

19 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

A selection of quotes from the Bruce thread around September time. Interesting reading. 

 

What's interesting about them?

[DaveAV1]

11 minutes ago, romavillan said:

He did that immediately successfully, the wheels have fallen off in the last month which coincided with Tuanzebe and Grealish out. They are both big misses, but I'm not sure to the extent we've seen us fall apart. At times yesterday it looked like McGinn versus Wigan, the rest just **** off. Smith needs to get us back to his basics of first touch, passing, movement, protecting the ball, pressing. If the players out yesterday apart from McGinn can't deliver that then he needs to make some drastic changes, he needs to find a core group of players he can trust to put a shift in and play as instructed and build from there. Right now I'd say that group is Tuanzebe, Grealish, McGinn and Abraham. I'd struggle to put anyone else in it to be honest.

The summer is huge for the club as a whole and for Smith particularly. All the optimism of the new owners getting things going in the right direction is evaporating, there is something very deeply wrong here. You can't say Smith isn't a good coach because look how he got the same players playing for 2 months, you can't say it's the board as they've been doing everything they can, saved us from financial ruin, made some good appointments. A lot of it has to be the playing staff then, and a lot of them will be going in the summer. 

It's looking grim but I think the board and Smith have to stick to their principles and get us through to the summer without completely falling to pieces and then take the opportunity to do some major surgery to the squad. 

Spot on. The owners have made lots of changes business and coaching wise, changes which I think most people would agree have been both positive and necessary. However the thing that can’t be changed quickly is the playing staff. We initially saw the difference decent coaching can bring, but you can’t make old legs younger or over paid players poorer. As others have said the hectic schedule of the last month has brought both injuries and tiredness. It’s only perhaps the odd percentage point but there’s a fine line between playing well and playing poorly. That little bit of extra energy and desire can be all it needs. John McGinn has played all the games but continues to give his all, maybe because he’s a few years younger, but that genuine desire, that a lot of our players don’t have is the real difference. 

Smith actually told the players after the Swansea FA Cup game that they need to be more like John McGinn. I believe that the plan is to put together a squad with many different skill sets, but that all share the most important one, desire. Because without it no team at any level can succeed. 

[Killeen30]

2 hours ago, Eastie said:

Attitude is the problem for  me , lack of motivation and on the wages these players are getting they should be thoroughly ashamed  of themselves .

It happened under Bruce too and smith needs to a get a grip of this fast and get the best from his players or bring in a reserve or 2 to replace them - there seem to be players in this team who couldn’t give a toss as long as they are getting paid whatever garbage they serve up .

i would be recalling green and Clark ahead of the likes of Taylor and el ghazi 

That’s it, poor attitude. Now with a good few being out of contract on the summer I’d have thought they’d be playing to try and stay on at the footballing cash cow known as Aston Villa.

And no, I don’t think they deserve to.

[romavillan]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

Our game plan is clear ( from the players not the manager) we come out and attempt to play football from the off.....after about 10/20 minutes the passes start goin astray and the opposition start getting about us and our game goes to pot....we relinquish the initiative and start chasing the game pulling ourselves all out of shape.

We just start wrong, we should get about the opposition from from the off.

Yesterday when we started trying to go from back to front quickly is when it all fell apart, we insisted on getting it forward as quickly as possible and just kept giving them the ball. Wigan couldn't believe their luck and knocked it about and made us chase and get knackered.

I agree though about the passes going astray, it's currently our biggest problem and only a few games ago we were seeing massively better possession and passing stats. 

[romavillan]

Just now, Killeen30 said:

That’s it, poor attitude. Now with a good few being out of contract on the summer I’d have thought they’d be playing to try and stay on at the footballing cash cow known as Aston Villa.

And no, I don’t think they deserve to.

I think the summer is a factor in a few of them not being arsed, they may have got wind that they won't be here past June and true to the form of the last few years they don't give a monkeys. 

[Dave-R]

5 hours ago, Eastie said:

I’d add snoddy  to those too , all 4 have been replaced with hugely inferior players , which combined with 2 shocking full backs is a recipe for disaster . 

add Grabban to that list as well, basically we patched the crap out of our squad with footballers who I would question whether they even enjoy playing football.

[Dave-R]

13 minutes ago, romavillan said:

I think the summer is a factor in a few of them not being arsed, they may have got wind that they won't be here past June and true to the form of the last few years they don't give a monkeys. 

I wouldn't extend any of there contracts even if they did start playing good it would all look like a ruse on there part just to get more cash out of villa.

They have seriously let down us fans those players have. I hope when they leave villa that they end up in a club where they are made to play again without a big contract, so they know once more what it's like to be apart of something special and what it means to the fans that they play there part.

We need good old Vince around here:

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Dave-R

[Tomsub]

1 hour ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

A selection of quotes from the Bruce thread around September time. Interesting reading. 

 

Interesting and worrying stats over the last two matches:

                                   AV    Opp

Shots                        14      27

Shots on target         2      13

Goals                          0        6

Wow - two shots on target in the last 180 mins of football!