Dean Smith

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Posts saying 'we give the ball away too much' are absolutely fine tro. I'd agree, we can be very careless at times. These sorts of posts aren't the issue, not in the slightest. Areas which we can improve.

It's this kind of one that gets people's goats. And it's from multiple sources across multiple threads. The ratings and reactions thread, the match thread, the Dean Smith thread, virtually any thread it remotely links in too. Absolutely baseless rubbish. Not when you consider the base was a game in isolation against Sheffield United. This happens alot. It didn't take me long to find the kind of post I thought about when I read your post.

It is easy to react to a post being a wind up, when you don't agree with it......you could be right by the way....I just take it at face value, maybe I am naive, I just can't see the point of a wind up.

but we also have to remember, there are varying levels of ages, personalities and intellectual background ...between us.

If someone slags off a player or manager, without  feasible support to their case, I just ignore it......If someone makes a case against the manager or a player, with a reasonable deduction of why they have arrived at their opinion, despite me maybe disagreeing....I will still read it with Interest and may respond with my reasoning....nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree.....if its a player, I will watch a bit closer, next time out.

but thats just me.

I have been watching Villa, for over 60 years and still learning about my team.

Edited March 8, 2021 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

31 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Posts saying 'we give the ball away too much' are absolutely fine tro. I'd agree, we can be very careless at times. These sorts of posts aren't the issue, not in the slightest. Areas which we can improve.

It's this kind of one that gets people's goats. And it's from multiple sources across multiple threads. The ratings and reactions thread, the match thread, the Dean Smith thread, virtually any thread it remotely links in too. Absolutely baseless rubbish. Not when you consider the base was a game in isolation against Sheffield United. This happens alot. It didn't take me long to find the kind of post I thought about when I read your post.

Ignore function mate. It’s the only way. Just seeing that post you quoted reminded me of why I’ve had to use it. 

[Mjvilla]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

It is easy to react to a post being a wind up, when you don't agree with it......you could be right by the way....I just take it at face value, maybe I am naive, I just can't see the point of a wind up.

but we also have to remember, there are varying levels of ages, personalities and intellectual background ...between us.

If someone slags off a player or manager, without  feasible support to their case, I just ignore it......If someone makes a case against the manager or a player, with a reasonable deduction of why they have arrived at their opinion, despite me maybe disagreeing....I will still read it with Interest and may respond with my reasoning....nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree.....if its a player, I will watch a bit closer, next time out.

but thats just me.

I have been watching Villa, for over 60 years and still learning about my team.

I, too, don't see the point of a wind up. I don't think it is a wind up.

When I see certain posts, I think I do need to think more about your second paragraph. This is a very true statement. 

I just see the disrespect toward Smith, from this and many other posts and it frustrates me. I keep talking about last season and the season before because we need to think about all this when looking at posts like the one I quoted. Not in relation to constructive criticism.

Is it fair to say 'we can be too soft in the middle sometimes'.. yes absolutely. I wouldn't bring up Smith's achievements then. 

Is it fair to say 'smith is a muppet' or 'smith has hit his ceiling' or 'hes not going to be a top tier manager and he's doing a good job for someone else to take over in a few years', no it's absolutely bloody not. When talking about these sorts of things, I think it's ok to talk about his past achievements over previous years with us. Why not, what else can we base what will happen in the future? A single game in isolation? Which was disappointing? Or year upon year of progress and development on and off the field? 

None of this is in anyway a dig at you tro, btw. Don't want to come across that way.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

It is easy to react to a post being a wind up, when you don't agree with it......you could be right by the way....I just take it at face value, maybe I am naive, I just can't see the point of a wind up.

but we also have to remember, there are varying levels of ages, personalities and intellectual background ...between us.

If someone slags off a player or manager, without  feasible support to their case, I just ignore it......If someone makes a case against the manager or a player, with a reasonable deduction of why they have arrived at their opinion, despite me maybe disagreeing....I will still read it with Interest and may respond with my reasoning....nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree.....if its a player, I will watch a bit closer, next time out.

but thats just me.

I have been watching Villa, for over 60 years and still learning about my team.

In addition to all your eloquence, we should also remember that on a match day/weekend some people are 12 beers/cocktails in. 

As you say different moods too.

I'll admit there have been times where I'm just having a crap day in general, with Villa the only thing to look forward to, and them making it worse. Lol

In turn, the forum gets it. 

Not right, but it's human nature to some extent.

Edited March 8, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[briny_ear]

16 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I said this thread, not the board. 

My point was the same people moaned when we win, so it's not as if they just make valid criticisms every so often. It's been a constant theme for some. 

The fact you had to trawl back to the Southampton game to “prove” your “point” suggests there maybe isn’t a valid point there.

I enjoyed the Southampton game because it showed we were learning to grind out results despite not being completely in control of the game - something we didn’t do too much last season but have got a bit better at in 2020/1. However, I perfectly understand that some fans found it an uncomfortable experience and wanted to express their nervousness and frustration at spending so much of the game under pressure in defence. If we can’t tolerate a range of reactions, particularly in the immediate aftermath of a match, this board isn’t going to be much of a read. 

[skarroki]

My Dad, a PNE fan, mentioned the other day that he could see Smith as England manager one day and that day could be soon depending on our performance at the Euros. He's not the first person in the last few months to mention that possibility either. What Smith has done so far has been remarkable and it is often forgotten that he's got us into the top half of the Prem both defending well and playing attractive football.

I actually genuinely enjoy watching Villa again which is such a great thing after the last decade of absolute dross. Having watched other teams in the past and wishing we could get their players or coaching staff so that we could be a better watch. I think there are things we can improve on definitely, if there wasn't we'd be top of the table, but I'm confident we're going in the right direction and I think we'll continue to do so keeping faith with the current people in place 

[nick76]

28 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

The fact you had to trawl back to the Southampton game to “prove” your “point” suggests there maybe isn’t a valid point there.

I enjoyed the Southampton game because it showed we were learning to grind out results despite not being completely in control of the game - something we didn’t do too much last season but have got a bit better at in 2020/1. However, I perfectly understand that some fans found it an uncomfortable experience and wanted to express their nervousness and frustration at spending so much of the game under pressure in defence. If we can’t tolerate a range of reactions, particularly in the immediate aftermath of a match, this board isn’t going to be much of a read. 

Sorry but I think he does have a valid point.

As for your last sentence, I think we all appreciate the range of views, the debate, discussion and even some arguments on here, hence why we keep coming back.  I enjoy seeing other point of views, things I’m missed or didn’t know and it’s also changed my view on some things when people make sense.

We are having a trend though from some, like DC Jonah comments on so I agree his point.  I used the ignore function for them, then they were dominating the threads, so I came back for a few games and saw it and stupidly commented on but now I just stay away from those threads in the last week because ignoring those people means ignoring most of the chatter because people are just replying to them so easier just to ignore the thread at times, which disappoints me because I want to come on here and have good debates but the nonsense has got in the way.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, skarroki said:

My Dad, a PNE fan, mentioned the other day that he could see Smith as England manager one day and that day could be soon depending on our performance at the Euros. He's not the first person in the last few months to mention that possibility either. What Smith has done so far has been remarkable and it is often forgotten that he's got us into the top half of the Prem both defending well and playing attractive football.

I actually genuinely enjoy watching Villa again which is such a great thing after the last decade of absolute dross. Having watched other teams in the past and wishing we could get their players or coaching staff so that we could be a better watch. I think there are things we can improve on definitely, if there wasn't we'd be top of the table, but I'm confident we're going in the right direction and I think we'll continue to do so keeping faith with the current people in place 

I’m not sure the England job is as attractive as it used to be.  It is the pinnacle for any English manager but it doesn’t have that pull currently.  Managing your home town club back to better times, hopefully trophies in years to come or the pitfalls of being the England manager....it’s hard to see it being a pull for Smith or many current successful managers.

[TRO]

15 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

I, too, don't see the point of a wind up. I don't think it is a wind up.

When I see certain posts, I think I do need to think more about your second paragraph. This is a very true statement. 

I just see the disrespect toward Smith, from this and many other posts and it frustrates me. I keep talking about last season and the season before because we need to think about all this when looking at posts like the one I quoted. Not in relation to constructive criticism.

Is it fair to say 'we can be too soft in the middle sometimes'.. yes absolutely. I wouldn't bring up Smith's achievements then. 

Is it fair to say 'smith is a muppet' or 'smith has hit his ceiling' or 'hes not going to be a top tier manager and he's doing a good job for someone else to take over in a few years', no it's absolutely bloody not. When talking about these sorts of things, I think it's ok to talk about his past achievements over previous years with us. Why not, what else can we base what will happen in the future? A single game in isolation? Which was disappointing? Or year upon year of progress and development on and off the field? 

None of this is in anyway a dig at you tro, btw. Don't want to come across that way.

There is no doubt in my mind that Dean Smith is a good manager, I haven't always been as sure as I am now.....but,He is still learning IMO.....As an Example...I don't think our team is as rounded as West Ham. They have a more varied personnel to meet all eventualities.

I hope he see's what I see that the midfield in particular are too samey.....not bad players, but too similar in style.....I can't see him improving the defence, in terms of new faces, just work on the training ground.

It leaves him to focus on about 4 players to improve our first team...and get cover for the defence.

This season has been a massive improvement.

I don't want to see a Thomas Tuchel type character arrive, who cares not what club he is at......I want Dean to progress himself and subsequently progress us.

We have a unique situation as I see it at Villa, never in my many years have I seen the harmony and the single minded intent of progressing this club, from the top down.....it is truly encouraging.

 

[onmeedson]

I think Dean Smith is big enough to handle criticism, some fans just get to invested. 

[MentalM]

45 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have a unique situation as I see it at Villa, never in my many years have I seen the harmony and the single minded intent of progressing this club, from the top down.....it is truly encouraging.

This so much.

That is also one of the reaons I am ok with bad games, because they happen. And at least I know the players are trying. This is so much better to see than much of the last decade has shown us. We gave the ball away way to much in the game vs Wolves, horrible passes going no where. Same vs Sheffield United. It doesnt bug me, I expected a bottom half fight this season, but Smith has improved, and is improving continuesly. Myself, I am looking forward to every bloody match now, instead of dreading the inevitable ruining of the weekend from horrible performances.

[Dave-R]

52 minutes ago, TRO said:

There is no doubt in my mind that Dean Smith is a good manager, I haven't always been as sure as I am now.....but,He is still learning IMO.....As an Example...I don't think our team is as rounded as West Ham. They have a more varied personnel to meet all eventualities.

I hope he see's what I see that the midfield in particular are too samey.....not bad players, but too similar in style.....I can't see him improving the defence, in terms of new faces, just work on the training ground.

It leaves him to focus on about 4 players to improve our first team...and get cover for the defence.

This season has been a massive improvement.

I don't want to see a Thomas Tuchel type character arrive, who cares not what club he is at......I want Dean to progress himself and subsequently progress us.

We have a unique situation as I see it at Villa, never in my many years have I seen the harmony and the single minded intent of progressing this club, from the top down.....it is truly encouraging.

 

I agree that our midfield players do seem to play the same, it would make more sense to mix things up and play the game different. That article you sent me TRO may help people on here understand more what your trying to get at and it really would make sense to have our midfield players behave and act differently on the pitch which in turn could yield slot of very interesting results.

[lexicon]

2 hours ago, MentalM said:

This so much.

That is also one of the reaons I am ok with bad games, because they happen. And at least I know the players are trying. This is so much better to see than much of the last decade has shown us. We gave the ball away way to much in the game vs Wolves, horrible passes going no where. Same vs Sheffield United. It doesnt bug me, I expected a bottom half fight this season, but Smith has improved, and is improving continuesly. Myself, I am looking forward to every bloody match now, instead of dreading the inevitable ruining of the weekend from horrible performances.

Yup - that's exactly where I'm at too. We're quite a bit ahead of schedule as far as I'm concerned and it's important for people to understand that there'll be rough and smooth along the way. This is only the 2nd season after a nigh-on total rebuild following promotion - we're doing really well. 

[DCJonah]

On 09/03/2021 at 00:23, briny_ear said:

The fact you had to trawl back to the Southampton game to “prove” your “point” suggests there maybe isn’t a valid point there.

I enjoyed the Southampton game because it showed we were learning to grind out results despite not being completely in control of the game - something we didn’t do too much last season but have got a bit better at in 2020/1. However, I perfectly understand that some fans found it an uncomfortable experience and wanted to express their nervousness and frustration at spending so much of the game under pressure in defence. If we can’t tolerate a range of reactions, particularly in the immediate aftermath of a match, this board isn’t going to be much of a read. 

Trawl back? No not really. I can clearly remember. And if you think that's the only time the usual posters have criticised Dean Smith then I can see why you've chosen to ignore the point. 

There's a difference between expressing nervousness and frustration, and then claiming the manager was wrong, even though we've won the game. 

I can tolerate a range of reactions. There are many posters who share different opinions that I enjoy reading. It's the ones that moan and criticise no matter what that I choose to respond to. Or the idea that if Dean Smith did what VT demanded we'd be better off in the league. 

 

[Dave-R]

On 08/03/2021 at 16:52, TRO said:

It is easy to react to a post being a wind up, when you don't agree with it......you could be right by the way....I just take it at face value, maybe I am naive, I just can't see the point of a wind up.

but we also have to remember, there are varying levels of ages, personalities and intellectual background ...between us.

If someone slags off a player or manager, without  feasible support to their case, I just ignore it......If someone makes a case against the manager or a player, with a reasonable deduction of why they have arrived at their opinion, despite me maybe disagreeing....I will still read it with Interest and may respond with my reasoning....nothing wrong in agreeing to disagree.....if its a player, I will watch a bit closer, next time out.

but thats just me.

I have been watching Villa, for over 60 years and still learning about my team.

I didn't know common sense and being responsible was a thing on VT, could this be catching on as of late, we are in uncharted territory here

[Don_Simon]

On 08/03/2021 at 19:33, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

In addition to all your eloquence, we should also remember that on a match day/weekend some people are 12 beers/cocktails in. 

As you say different moods too.

I'll admit there have been times where I'm just having a crap day in general, with Villa the only thing to look forward to, and them making it worse. Lol

In turn, the forum gets it. 

Not right, but it's human nature to some extent.

So. Many. Times.

[WallisFrizz]

57 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

So. Many. Times.

This properly made me laugh but on the flip side, December was a terrible month for me personally and Villa were one of the things that actually brought me some joy.  Their lapse in form has coincided with things settling down for me but they were there when I needed them 

[Don_Simon]

4 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

This properly made me laugh but on the flip side, December was a terrible month for me personally and Villa were one of the things that actually brought me some joy.  Their lapse in form has coincided with things settling down for me but they were there when I needed them 

There's an obvious comment to make her, but I won't, your happiness is important to us all. 

[lexicon]

On 09/03/2021 at 03:10, nick76 said:

I’m not sure the England job is as attractive as it used to be.  It is the pinnacle for any English manager but it doesn’t have that pull currently.  Managing your home town club back to better times, hopefully trophies in years to come or the pitfalls of being the England manager....it’s hard to see it being a pull for Smith or many current successful managers.

I don't think Smith would like the England gig. Not enough going on, awful politics and media. International manager jobs are basically for managers who couldn't cut it in the league - that's where the action is these days. 

[sparrow1988]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I don't think Smith would like the England gig. Not enough going on, awful politics and media. International manager jobs are basically for managers who couldn't cut it in the league - that's where the action is these days. 

Or for successful club managers who are getting on a bit but don't want the day to day rigmarole of having to be at the training ground and put in all the effort of club management.