Dean Smith

[Robtaylor200]

17 minutes ago, useless said:

Pretty sure that most of our older players that we let go have retired because they couldn't find new clubs. Could be wrong but I think Adomah and Whelan are the only ones still playing, and Whelan's playing for Fleetwood. So that wouldn't have worked.

Good point, I was a Hutton and Jedi supporter and thought they should have been given a chance , but you make a very good point 

[villalad21]

11 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Next you'll be saying we should have kept hogan so that we could have bought maupay 

So you would rather spend 140 million on 13 average players than keeping most of the squad and focusing on 4-5 main transfer targets who much better players and would have actually improved us?

Jedinak is a great DMF and shielder of the defense. He has never been quick if that is your argument and has played many games in the PL. We all yell out for a lack of experience yet got rid of Jedi.

He also is fantastic in both boxes. Considering we're the worst team in the league on defensive set pieces he would have been a great asset.

Adomah is a better player than Trezeguet. He works very hard for the team. Is a good team player and has an eye for a goal.

I also think people underestimate how important the likes of Hutton and Jedinak were for the dressing room.

.........................Heaton..................................

Guilbert/Elmo Konsa...Mings...Targett

..........................Jedinak.........................

.............McGinn...Grealish/Luiz.......................

Adomah.............Maupay....................El Ghazi

This would have been a much, much better team than what we assembled. I don't care what anyone says.

Edited July 8, 2020 by villalad21

[VillaCas]

11 hours ago, TRO said:

• So we spent £140 mill and you had doubts at the start about the clubs ability to spend it....did you declare that as a prediction?.....I think most fans were excited at having 2 Brazillians in the side, amongst other things....

Here you go TRO!

On 12/07/2019 at 20:35, VillaCas said:

I hope you’re right about Jota I really do - I’d got him earmarked as a squad player at best

On your other point, My original response was to someone who felt that our midfield was “immense” and the we could be challenging nearer the top than the bottom

like you I’ll be happy with 17th this time round

 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, AVTuco said:

This is exactly the kind of ridiculous post I was referring to. But this board is all aboard this crap, so there's no sense in going through this discussion again. You guys hold your view about Sherwood, and that's fine. I stick to mine, like I always have. Tim didn't get a fair shot at all. Smith has had, and has failed.

Has Sherwood got another job since 2015.

I like the guy for making me enjoy Villa again but was limited

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

So you would rather spend 140 million on 13 average players than keeping most of the squad and focusing on 4-5 main transfer targets who much better players and would have actually improved us?

Jedinak is a great DMF and shielder of the defense. He has never been quick if that is your argument and has played many games in the PL. We all yell out for a lack of experience yet got rid of Jedi.

He also is fantastic in both boxes. Considering we're the worst team in the league on defensive set pieces he would have been a great asset.

Adomah is a better player than Trezeguet. He works very hard for the team. Is a good team player and has an eye for a goal.

I also think people underestimate how important the likes of Hutton and Jedinak were for the dressing room.

.........................Heaton..................................

Guilbert/Elmo Konsa...Mings...Targett

..........................Jedinak.........................

.............McGinn...Grealish/Luiz.......................

Adomah.............Maupay....................El Ghazi

This would have been a much, much better team than what we assembled. I don't care what anyone says.

Maupay, probably, but Adomah could barely even do it in the Championship anymore.. so i don't know what you're on about. lol

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Maupay, probably, but Adomah could barely even do it in the Championship anymore.. so i don't know what you're on about. lol

And Trezeguet could barely do in in League 2 i recon.

[DCJonah]

42 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Just goes to show consistency is overrated.

Watford sacked 2 managers. West Ham sacked Pellegrini. Both looking like staying up.

Bournemouth, Villa and Norwich sticking with their man. All going down.

Consistency means nothing if your manager isn't competent enough.

You mean the 2 teams with the better squads are staying up. 

A bit like us when lambert was sacked for sherwood. We had a squad good enough to stay up and a shit manager like sherwood did it because a change was all that was needed. 

This time round, you ignore the state of the squad. 

[weedman]

6 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

On one hand you say they'll decide as a team over several players and then say it's not Smith fault because he only has the info from the scouts?? But the scout is ultimately responsible. Do you realise how crazy that post is?! Even the scout in your post sound like he from the RAF in the 1940's, "There's this chap...., found him in Egypt. By the way here's his best bits". Jesus Christ, do not take up story telling lol. 

Managers and the DOF will still scout and watch several games over a long period before making decisions on players, including those recommended. Sometimes over several years. They will have extensive information on each individual on the clubs database gathered from several sources included the scouting team.  

I can understand with pointing the finger away from Smith and trying to blame others but when he came out and said he had been to see Wes, Trez and Nakamba etc in action. It seems to me that many people are coming up with any crap to deflect criticism away from him. Including blaming the scouts now.  

Lets just sack sack everyone. 

 

 

 

We signed 12 players in a short space of time over 1 summer after what, just a few weeks earlier, would be considered a highly unlikely promotion, and you think the manager was personally scouting all the players we signed over long periods? The manager that only joined the club 6 months prior and was in a league where you play twice a week? 

When do you expect Dean Smith watched Trezeguet? Or Luiz? Nakamba? Wesley? And not just watched them, watched them extensively enough to form a balanced opinion on their personality and ability to step up to PL football? 

You make out I'm crazy, but you're suggestion that he personally scouted all the players we signed is physically impossible and completely insane. There would be some players he obviously knew more of if 1) they had previously been discussed probably when he was at Brentford, 2) he had worked with them before and 3) the ones on loan to us last year

You're next line is basically exactly what I'm saying, they have a database of people that the scouting team have identified and will be discussed with the manager and director of football and whoever else is in that team until they decide on a player to to for, that's not Dean Smith personally scouting players, he's as much at the mercy of the scouting team as anyone. 

I'm not absolving Dean Smith from blame for our position by the way, I thought this season would be tough but I feel he should be doing a bit better than he is but this thread has descended into the Steve Bruce thread, either you think every single thing is the managers fault and every single thing he has ever achieved is nothing but luck OR you're a blind fan who loves the manager above all else with literally no middle ground, it's crazy. 

[Mjvilla]

10 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

And Trezeguet could barely do in in League 2 i recon.

You argued with me the other day that because he has lots of followers, done it in the Turkish league and is in the national squad that he must have something about him when I said he was league 1 standard. You really are all over the place. 

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, Mjvilla said:

You argued with me the other day that because he has lots of followers, done it in the Turkish league and is in the national squad that he must have something about him when I said he was league 1 standard. You really are all over the place. 

I just don't think he is cut out for the English game.

He could probably go back to Turkey and do a job.

[Zatman]

17 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

You argued with me the other day that because he has lots of followers, done it in the Turkish league and is in the national squad that he must have something about him when I said he was league 1 standard. You really are all over the place. 

Spends too much time watching his beloved Leeds, best to ignore. 

Sure he said previously Nyland was a better keeper than Heaton 

[Stevo985]

30 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You mean the 2 teams with the better squads are staying up. 

A bit like us when lambert was sacked for sherwood. We had a squad good enough to stay up and a shit manager like sherwood did it because a change was all that was needed. 

This time round, you ignore the state of the squad. 

Exactly. Sherwood is like Pardew. When a team is struggling with a boring, disciplined manager who has clearly lost the dressing room, all you need for short term improvement is someone to come in, put their arm around players and let them “go out and play”. 
 

But that approach doesn’t last very long. Sherwood and Pardew and managers like them can’t address a slide. When things start going bad, they go really bad and they can’t turn things around. 

[avfc1982am]

11 minutes ago, weedman said:

We signed 12 players in a short space of time over 1 summer after what, just a few weeks earlier, would be considered a highly unlikely promotion, and you think the manager was personally scouting all the players we signed over long periods? The manager that only joined the club 6 months prior and was in a league where you play twice a week? 

When do you expect Dean Smith watched Trezeguet? Or Luiz? Nakamba? Wesley? And not just watched them, watched them extensively enough to form a balanced opinion on their personality and ability to step up to PL football? 

You make out I'm crazy, but you're suggestion that he personally scouted all the players we signed is physically impossible and completely insane. There would be some players he obviously knew more of if 1) they had previously been discussed probably when he was at Brentford, 2) he had worked with them before and 3) the ones on loan to us last year

You're next line is basically exactly what I'm saying, they have a database of people that the scouting team have identified and will be discussed with the manager and director of football and whoever else is in that team until they decide on a player to to for, that's not Dean Smith personally scouting players, he's as much at the mercy of the scouting team as anyone. 

I'm not absolving Dean Smith from blame for our position by the way, I thought this season would be tough but I feel he should be doing a bit better than he is but this thread has descended into the Steve Bruce thread, either you think every single thing is the managers fault and every single thing he has ever achieved is nothing but luck OR you're a blind fan who loves the manager above all else with literally no middle ground, it's crazy. 

We signed 12 players in a short space of time over 1 summer after what, just a few weeks earlier, would be considered a highly unlikely promotion, and you think the manager was personally scouting all the players we signed over long periods? The manager that only joined the club 6 months prior and was in a league where you play twice a week? Managers and clubs have list of potential transfers, Targets, etc. 

When do you expect Dean Smith watched Trezeguet? Or Luiz? Nakamba? Wesley? And not just watched them, watched them extensively enough to form a balanced opinion on their personality and ability to step up to PL football? No one said he'd been to watch them extensively but guaranteed he'd been to see them and was involved in the decision making process. He'd admitted this himself before the season started. He even said that brought in players based on character.. So there would have been extensive background checks. 

You make out I'm crazy, but you're suggestion that he personally scouted all the players we signed is physically impossible and completely insane. There would be some players he obviously knew more of if 1) they had previously been discussed probably when he was at Brentford, 2) he had worked with them before and 3) the ones on loan to us last year - So the players we're already known? Therefore he wouldn't have needed to go watch 13 players at the back end of last season?! Maybe 3-4 seen as he was aware of most the incoming players anyway

You're next line is basically exactly what I'm saying, they have a database of people that the scouting team have identified and will be discussed with the manager and director of football and whoever else is in that team until they decide on a player to to for, that's not Dean Smith personally scouting players, he's as much at the mercy of the scouting team as anyone. We agree on something, yes!

I'm not absolving Dean Smith from blame for our position by the way, I thought this season would be tough but I feel he should be doing a bit better than he is but this thread has descended into the Steve Bruce thread, either you think every single thing is the managers fault and every single thing he has ever achieved is nothing but luck OR you're a blind fan who loves the manager above all else with literally no middle ground, it's crazy. I didn't mention Bruce or give 2 shits about him. And no I don't blame Smith for all the crap this year but definitely a large portion of it. Rather than say it's the scouts fault.

 

[Nabby]

56 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

So you would rather spend 140 million on 13 average players than keeping most of the squad and focusing on 4-5 main transfer targets who much better players and would have actually improved us?

Jedinak is a great DMF and shielder of the defense. He has never been quick if that is your argument and has played many games in the PL. We all yell out for a lack of experience yet got rid of Jedi.

He also is fantastic in both boxes. Considering we're the worst team in the league on defensive set pieces he would have been a great asset.

Adomah is a better player than Trezeguet. He works very hard for the team. Is a good team player and has an eye for a goal.

I also think people underestimate how important the likes of Hutton and Jedinak were for the dressing room.

.........................Heaton..................................

Guilbert/Elmo Konsa...Mings...Targett

..........................Jedinak.........................

.............McGinn...Grealish/Luiz.......................

Adomah.............Maupay....................El Ghazi

This would have been a much, much better team than what we assembled. I don't care what anyone says.

Well you might not care but here are facts Hutton and Jedinek have no clubs as no one wanted them at any level high enough for them to continue playing and Adomah was on the waine and didn't last long at Forrest.Jedinek in the air would have been useful but his passing and lack of mobility would of been exposed in the PL.

Admoah has had 2 good seasons where he got into double figures in goals in his last 69 games he has 7 goals.Trez has 4 in 21 games at a high level.You might not rate Trez but Adomah is not a PL player ,never has been and at 32 is not going to improve to become one.

 

[weedman]

24 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

We signed 12 players in a short space of time over 1 summer after what, just a few weeks earlier, would be considered a highly unlikely promotion, and you think the manager was personally scouting all the players we signed over long periods? The manager that only joined the club 6 months prior and was in a league where you play twice a week? Managers and clubs have list of potential transfers, Targets, etc. 

When do you expect Dean Smith watched Trezeguet? Or Luiz? Nakamba? Wesley? And not just watched them, watched them extensively enough to form a balanced opinion on their personality and ability to step up to PL football? No one said he'd been to watch them extensively but guaranteed he'd been to see them and was involved in the decision making process. He'd admitted this himself before the season started. He even said that brought in players based on character.. So there would have been extensive background checks. 

You make out I'm crazy, but you're suggestion that he personally scouted all the players we signed is physically impossible and completely insane. There would be some players he obviously knew more of if 1) they had previously been discussed probably when he was at Brentford, 2) he had worked with them before and 3) the ones on loan to us last year - So the players we're already known? Therefore he wouldn't have needed to go watch 13 players at the back end of last season?! Maybe 3-4 seen as he was aware of most the incoming players anyway

You're next line is basically exactly what I'm saying, they have a database of people that the scouting team have identified and will be discussed with the manager and director of football and whoever else is in that team until they decide on a player to to for, that's not Dean Smith personally scouting players, he's as much at the mercy of the scouting team as anyone. We agree on something, yes!

I'm not absolving Dean Smith from blame for our position by the way, I thought this season would be tough but I feel he should be doing a bit better than he is but this thread has descended into the Steve Bruce thread, either you think every single thing is the managers fault and every single thing he has ever achieved is nothing but luck OR you're a blind fan who loves the manager above all else with literally no middle ground, it's crazy. I didn't mention Bruce or give 2 shits about him. And no I don't blame Smith for all the crap this year but definitely a large portion of it. Rather than say it's the scouts fault.

 

Look at the last 2 paragraphs, 1, which you agree with, stating that the manager is effectively at the mercy of the scouting team because they won't have personally scouted the players, they are basing their decision off the information they are given by the scouts, and then only a few lines later saying that it's not the scouts fault 

The extensive background checks you speak of, think they were personally handled by Dean Smith during the season in between games and training sessions when it was considered very likely we'd be shopping in the Championship market and wouldn't even need the players? Of course not, the scouting team went out, made their judgements and passed that information on to the manager, so to place no blame on the scouts and the majority of it on the manager for signings doesn't make sense to me

The manager has an input, position, style of play, personality etc and its the scouting team that go out and find players to recommend based on that criteria, if they come back recommending duds and claiming they're superstars how's the manager to know? It's not like we had a lot of time to completely rebuild the side is it so we didn't have the luxury to say, "no, I'm not 100% so we'll leave it", we had to go with, "I'm not 100% but we need bodies, he seems to tick most boxes so let's go for him" 

[villalad21]

8 minutes ago, Nabby said:

Well you might not care but here are facts Hutton and Jedinek have no clubs as no one wanted them at any level high enough for them to continue playing and Adomah was on the waine and didn't last long at Forrest.Jedinek in the air would have been useful but his passing and lack of mobility would of been exposed in the PL.

Admoah has had 2 good seasons where he got into double figures in goals in his last 69 games he has 7 goals.Trez has 4 in 21 games at a high level.You might not rate Trez but Adomah is not a PL player ,never has been and at 32 is not going to improve to become one.

 

Hutton and Jedinak couldn't find clubs because of their age.

And Jedinak lack of mobility? Come on he's never been quick. He's got over 100 PL games under his belt with Crystal Palace.

My main point is if we had kept most of the squad together we could focus our money on the main targets like Maupay and Benrahma instead of rushing and panicking buying 12 very average players who ultimately haven't improved us.

I think people are underestimating the value keeping the dressing room together. It's so, so important. You can't do that many changes at once. We were never gonna keep Axel and Tammy but rest we should have kept for another season.

Edited July 8, 2020 by villalad21

[useless]

We didn't just suddenly start thinking about which players we'd like to sign for the premier league after we qualified for the play-offs, we'd been scouting players for both the championship and the premier league all season and Smith was involved in that process.

The thing of trying to blame this season soley on Pitarch/recruitment doesn't really make sense, It's Smith's job to get the best out of the players that he's got, that's the same at every club, doesn't matter if the manager signed them or not.

[Sulberto21]

There's a reason why Crystal Palace let Jedinak go. His legs were shot. It's not always about speed. It's about being able to cover the ground required of you by the team. I suppose we could have kept them all on and given them pom poms to cheer the players on. Bit of motivation from the sidelines maybe. 

[Sulberto21]

1 minute ago, useless said:

We didn't just suddenly start thinking about which players we'd like to sign for the premier league after we qualified for the play-offs, we'd been scouting players for both the championship and the premier league all season and Smith was involved in that process.

The thing of trying to blame this season soley on Pitarch/recruitment doesn't really make sense, It's Smith's job to get the best out of the players that he's got, that's the same at every club, doesn't matter if the manager signed them or not.

Pretty sure he said of some of the players we've bought that he's been after them since the Brentford days. Engels was definitely one can't think of the others.

[useless]

Smith himself has publicly said that he advised against signing Maupay...

'The newly-promoted club spent £127million on 12 new signings yet Smith, familiar with working on a budget from his time in charge at Walsall, insists he will always look for deals which offer value for money.

He said: “Those values have never left me. I try and treat the money as if it were my own as I did at Walsall.

“With Maupay, for instance, I love him as a player but the numbers that were getting talked about, for me, were too much. There are a lot of players out there you would obviously like.'

Those quotes alone tells you that gets involved with transfers, not just the judging of whether a player is good enough or not, but also the finanacial side

Expess and Star