Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Fergie made average players like Cleverley, O'Shea and Wes Brown to perform very well consistently.

Wilder has done the same with mainly a Championship squad.

Did he? Or did being around better players have an impact on them? 

Wilder is doing a tremendous job, let's see if he consistently keeps a squad like that performing at that level. 

Of course he won't. 

[Dave-R]

54 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Yes i complain a lot because i believe his footballing philosophy is deeply flawed.

Which is why he has gone away from his ways in order to ensure survival.

If a philosophy isn't working straight away that doesn't mean it wouldn't when the right things and players are in place does it? I dont think its flawed, the wrong time to have us play it yes of course.

We should of made survival priority first, think it was always slim making a philosophy work against the best talent in the league when you have so many inexperienced players in there first season of top flight football.

It would of been alot easier to get our players playing football that had us make the easy moves against opponents, to grind out wins and protect the advantage than do some of the things weve tried. What we have tried to play requires much better talent than what we have because the difficulty required went way up, not to mention energy spent.

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Tends to happen when managers come here.

Pressure and expectations gets to them i think.

Yep Smith really buckled under the pressure of getting us promoted

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Yep Smith really buckled under the pressure of getting us promoted

But he is not a Premier League manager. He may be one day, but no one can come and learn their trade at the Villa, no chance, too much pressure. He thinks he can play the Man City way with Medicare players. You can get away with it in the championship, but not here, not in this league.

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

But he is not a Premier League manager. He may be one day, but no one can come and learn their trade at the Villa, no chance, too much pressure. He thinks he can play the Man City way with Medicare players. You can get away with it in the championship, but not here, not in this league.

yes he was supposed to learn his trade this season in the Championship, not really his fault he overachieved

[Baldricks Cunning Plan]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Incorrect.

He was unobtainable. He wasn't coming to a Championship team in the Midlands without his mate promising him he'd give him loads of players far too good for the division.

They don't have "recruitment", they have a super agent giving them all their players. He also secured them their manager. 

There was nothing well-planned or coy about what they've done. They got an agent in who put a brilliant manager and brilliant players there. Would have been nice if it was us, but it wasn't.

They'll likely expand and build from a position of strength now. They'll buy more from outside his circle, he doesn't have an endless pit of top players.

The only thing stopping Wolves is if Mendes wants to move a player on to a Barcelona or something.

Traore, Dendoncker, Jimenez, Boly, Doherty, Coady, Saiss and Jonny aren't Mendes (Gestifute) clients.

Moutinho (definitely) and Patricio (probably) are too old for the Worlds best sides to come knocking on the door for them. That leaves just Neves and Jota, both of whom are excellent but not at the level to go to a top team like Barcelona. 

There's no doubt he has helped us to where we are at and bringing in Nuno was a masterstroke. The idea however that a selling club will lie on their backs wanting their bellies tickled whilst Mendes takes their players for below market rates isn't correct. 

As for Smith he inherited a squad part way through 18/19 and then had to rebuild it and learn on the job in the Premier League. He started this season by trying to go toe to toe with sides with reasonable success, but injuries and loss of from hindered him from November onwards. He then tried and failed with three at the back and now a more cautious approach which makes you harder to beat but takes away your attacking threat. I think if you do stay up with settled a pre-season he'd have you in much better shape for next year. The problem with relegation is if he stays it will mean another rebuild and if it doesn't work out quickly he'll be on his way. 

He's had a tough task and there's no guarantee that the next incumbent will be better.

[Baldricks Cunning Plan]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

Sorry

Edited July 3, 2020 by Baldricks Cunning Plan
Posted too many times!

[Baldricks Cunning Plan]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Baldricks Cunning Plan
As above

[hippo]

36 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

If a philosophy isn't working straight away that doesn't mean it wouldn't when the right things and players are in place does it? I dont think its flawed, the wrong time to have us play it yes of course.

We should of made survival priority first, think it was always slim making a philosophy work against the best talent in the league when you have so many inexperienced players in there first season of top flight football.

It would of been alot easier to get our players playing football that had us make the easy moves against opponents, to grind out wins and protect the advantage than do some of the things weve tried. What we have tried to play requires much better talent than what we have because the difficulty required went way up, not to mention energy spent.

I don't even know what a philosophy is in football terms. Always seems something failing clubs talk about.

Perhaps we should forget a philosophy and just try and win a few games of football.

[CosmicVillan]

36 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

It would of been alot easier to get our players playing football that had us make the easy moves against opponents, to grind out wins and protect the advantage than do some of the things weve tried. What we have tried to play requires much better talent than what we have because the difficulty required went way up, not to mention energy spent.

All very well having a 'philosophy' but that doesn't win football matches without the personnel to go along with it which we clearly do not have. The best managers mould their teams into a shape and a system that works for the collective and the circumstances they are in.  Clearly Dean Smith has had a long time to ponder this through the enforced break and changed his tune probably against his better nature. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Tends to happen when managers come here.

Pressure and expectations gets to them i think.

I honestly wish he stuck to his guns.

At the beginning of the season, yes we had some terrible results, 

Conceded too many etc.

However alot of our games at that period looked like they could have gone either way, barring individual cock ups etc.

We'd probably be on the end of some pastings, but we also more than likely would have won more than we lost IMO.

Edited July 3, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

See, I don't get this. Because we defend a manager who got us promoted from nowhere, build a whole squad, took us to a cup final and has us with a chance of staying up, we are coming up with extremely creative reasons for excuses? 

I'd say that the criticisms are very creative, and the more sensible approach comes across quite clearly in the defence of smith posts.

If you check my track record I was staunchly defensive of Smith when many started to turn, I was also the same with Bruce. ( Main difference being I started actually disliking Bruce as a person)

There is only so much you can "defend" before it becomes blind faith or stubbornness (Loyalty over the clubs welfare/future?).

We are ALL aware of the mitigating circumstances and are ALL grateful for what he has done for us.

I already made a long post about all of this so I won't do so again.

However just know that in an ideal world 99 percent of us would love for Deano to succeed!

[Laughable Chimp]

Is there any way we could put Smith on some kind of temporary sacking? Basically, he gets relieved from his job but we keep him on the books whilst someone else comes in and tries to save us. If we survive relegation, we stick with this new guy and Smith is gone. If this new guy fails we sack him and Smith returns into the managerial role for the Championship.

Too crazy?

[Mjvilla]

49 minutes ago, Baldricks Cunning Plan said:

Traore, Dendoncker, Jimenez, Boly, Doherty, Coady, Saiss and Jonny aren't Mendes (Gestifute) clients.

Moutinho (definitely) and Patricio (probably) are too old for the Worlds best sides to come knocking on the door for them. That leaves just Neves and Jota, both of whom are excellent but not at the level to go to a top team like Barcelona. 

There's no doubt he has helped us to where we are at and bringing in Nuno was a masterstroke. The idea however that a selling club will lie on their backs wanting their bellies tickled whilst Mendes takes their players for below market rates isn't correct. 

As for Smith he inherited a squad part way through 18/19 and then had to rebuild it and learn on the job in the Premier League. He started this season by trying to go toe to toe with sides with reasonable success, but injuries and loss of from hindered him from November onwards. He then tried and failed with three at the back and now a more cautious approach which makes you harder to beat but takes away your attacking threat. I think if you do stay up with settled a pre-season he'd have you in much better shape for next year. The problem with relegation is if he stays it will mean another rebuild and if it doesn't work out quickly he'll be on his way. 

He's had a tough task and there's no guarantee that the next incumbent will be better.

How come this chap, who doesn't even support villa, gets it better than most of our own fans?!?

[Tomaszk]

42 minutes ago, Baldricks Cunning Plan said:

Traore, Dendoncker, Jimenez, Boly, Doherty, Coady, Saiss and Jonny aren't Mendes (Gestifute) clients.

Jimenez, Boly and Jonny deals all came from Mendes links one way or another. Thought Jimenez was one of his biggest south American clients?

He's obviously the main man who got Nuno in as well. Nuno the key and the main one who wouldn't have come without Mendes' player input.

Know of any other super agents we can use for this setup? Forget gambling on a crap director of football buying players.

[villanmac]

It just hit me that we actually went into a premier league season with this as our attack (strikers, wingers):

Davis

Wesley

Kodija

El Ghazi

Trezeguet

Jota

Jesus Christ, thats horrific.  

Edited July 3, 2020 by villanmac

[TRO]

5 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Tends to happen when managers come here.

Pressure and expectations gets to them i think.

Pressure and expectations at Villa, will always be an issue.....while we appoint managers who do not have the presence or personality to deal with the pressure. IMO its not the pressure that is the issue, its the managers, who can't deal with it.

I suspect our owners do not want big names, because with big names, come big demands.......personality managers or big reputation managers, will not have players pushed on to them, maybe the odd one, but not as their policy.

A big personality/reputaion manager, will do it his way or he is off, thats the leverage they have......Dean as an example, will never get a job bigger than Villa and they know that and are aware of it.

We need managers, we, the club are grateful for......not the other way around.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by TRO

[VillaChris]

On 02/07/2020 at 16:40, Zatman said:

Nuno did an excellent job at Valencia, he was definitely known in Europe as an effective manager. Before this his tactical game wasnt anything brilliant he was more of a MON style motivator but he has added some tactical skill to his repertoire

They certainly regret sacking him now given they replaced him with Gary Neville and Pako Akyestarian who won about 5 games between them in 10 months.

History repeating itself at Valencia with them sacking Marcelinho who won them copa del rey and got them top 4 and replaced him with Albert Celades who's just been sacked.

Marcelinho someone I'd like us to take a look at.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Baldricks Cunning Plan said:

Traore, Dendoncker, Jimenez, Boly, Doherty, Coady, Saiss and Jonny aren't Mendes (Gestifute) clients.

Moutinho (definitely) and Patricio (probably) are too old for the Worlds best sides to come knocking on the door for them. That leaves just Neves and Jota, both of whom are excellent but not at the level to go to a top team like Barcelona. 

There's no doubt he has helped us to where we are at and bringing in Nuno was a masterstroke. The idea however that a selling club will lie on their backs wanting their bellies tickled whilst Mendes takes their players for below market rates isn't correct. 

As for Smith he inherited a squad part way through 18/19 and then had to rebuild it and learn on the job in the Premier League. He started this season by trying to go toe to toe with sides with reasonable success, but injuries and loss of from hindered him from November onwards. He then tried and failed with three at the back and now a more cautious approach which makes you harder to beat but takes away your attacking threat. I think if you do stay up with settled a pre-season he'd have you in much better shape for next year. The problem with relegation is if he stays it will mean another rebuild and if it doesn't work out quickly he'll be on his way. 

He's had a tough task and there's no guarantee that the next incumbent will be better.

You are right, there is no guarantee of anyone doing better.....but if we do go down and Dean is kept on and after 10 games, we are not doing well.....it means more change mid-season and having to wait until Jan to make player changes.

I think changing mid-season is what is difficult to gain momentum.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

But he is not a Premier League manager. He may be one day, but no one can come and learn their trade at the Villa, no chance, too much pressure. He thinks he can play the Man City way with Medicare players. You can get away with it in the championship, but not here, not in this league.

I see the expression in the after match interviews with Klopp and Lampard.....The anger was overwhelming....it told a story, of not accepting poor standards or flat performances...Liverpool had a bit of an excuse, Chelsea had just beat Man City.

Klopp had just won the league for gods sake, he was entitled to be relaxed, but he was fuming.....Those reactions are infectious.... we had managers in the past who would react like that.

We are struggling to stay alive......I don't see that from Smith or Terry, its just an air of inevitability, I don't hear the game analysis like the others, to give us a hint, they know whats going on.

I might be totally unfair, but to me they look like they are just running down the clock/calendar.