Dean Smith

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

You start well here but I think you're talking yourself into doubting these methods because you want to.

Cloughy would no doubt hate these methods because he wanted to go out, see the players himself and bring them in. But how could he possibly watch the French second division and the polish premier league enough to judge if he liked players? It's not possible, there's not enough hours in the day.

Where the hell would be we if Martin O'Neill had let a team like Liverpool's bring in his signings in 2007/8/9? I can assure you we'd have had at least two seasons in the Champions League to enjoy.

When all the club's have a department like Liverpool, yes, their influence will waver. We're a long long way from than. Six months ago City were rushing out a job ad for a physicist to try and start a team. That's City. Unlimited resources, reigning champs and (distant) closest challengers.

I really really hope our US owners have a decent starting point to work from with this. Departments like this are far more common and accepted in American sports.

 

I am not talking myself in to anything, i am just sceptical of how much this data plays a part in the success a successful team has.....I think there is much more, that has a bearing.

I am not discarding it all together by no means, but perhaps I don't put so much emphasis on it as you do.

Cloughy didn't do that, even then, neither did Ron Saunders, Peter Taylor, did that and Tony Barton, respectively.....of course they had to have help, but they knew what they wanted and what to do with them.

I say this respectfully, you are a much younger chap than me and we are bound to have different views, you clearly are taken by modern analytical data, but they are humans and that also requires, tried and tested methods of the past....We don't always have to re-invent the wheel, in a mature industry.

....and we don't have to be Dinosaurs, to have learnt good practice from the past.

We also have to be mindful, when we talk about changes in football, that it is a money saturated industry and by definition, will attract experts, who maintain their methods are  a pioneering advantage, not to be missed......I would not be surprised, if somebody, somewhere has a case to the contrary, where Ian Grahams "dancing bear"hasn't worked for them......Don't tell me...Aston Villa.

Edited June 30, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

7 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Great post - Klopps real strength is man management, I imagine that is where he focuses much of his effort

I would hazard a guess that Klopps strength, extends much further than just Man Management.....as does Pep Guardiola.

[VillaCas]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I would hazard a guess that Klopps strength, extends much further than just Man Management.....as does Pep Guardiola.

You are a cheeky monkey TRO. Did you imagine that I thought Klopp’s abilities was solely limited to man-management?

Of course he has very many skills but his big differentiator is an almost unrivalled ability to get the best out of each of his players

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolfc.com/amp/news/first-team/286674-alexander-arnold-reveals-klopp-s-biggest-strength

Pep’s also has a wide range of abilities but I would argue that for him his key skills are his coaching ability and innovative approach to tactics

[ciggiesnbeer]

I would sooner have Zidane than Klopp or Pep but its all about taste they are all winners. Not that any of these three (or any top manager) is coming here any time soon. Sadly.

[VillaCas]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

No thats what your doing.....changing what was originally said to suit your narrative......not for the first time.

not interested in continueing this saga.

Lolz ..... l’ll happily apologise should you find any example of me ‘changing what was originally said to suit my narrative’

If you keep posting axiomatic statements as if they are pearls of wisdom you’ve got to expect to get a few comments

 

[TRO]

24 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

You are a cheeky monkey TRO. Did you imagine that I thought Klopp’s abilities was solely limited to man-management?

Of course he has very many skills but his big differentiator is an almost unrivalled ability to get the best out of each of his players

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.liverpoolfc.com/amp/news/first-team/286674-alexander-arnold-reveals-klopp-s-biggest-strength

Pep’s also has a wide range of abilities but I would argue that for him his key skills are his coaching ability and innovative approach to tactics

thats a bit rich.....this is what you quoted......what am I to deduce from that quote?

"Great post - Klopps real strength is man management, I imagine that is where he focuses much of his effort"

Too much imagining here = opinions.....I guess we just have different ones.

Edited June 30, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Lolz ..... l’ll happily apologise should you find any example of me ‘changing what was originally said to suit my narrative’

If you keep posting axiomatic statements as if they are pearls of wisdom you’ve got to expect to get a few comments

 

"Thats not how things work these days - the manager is no longer all-powerful"

That was your response @ 17.42 yesterday........to my post of 29/6/2020@ 16.31

I then responded back again at 18.12 on 29/6/2020, mentioning Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho ....questioning your above statement.

Its not a case of making unquestionable statements, its a forum, our currency is opinions.....we don't know what goes on behind closed doors at our club, we just offer each other opinions.

but I respectfully say this to you....you counter a post by "gas lighting" every line and its usually mine.....they are your opinions too, and you are entitled to them.....but you have accused me of saying the very thing that you posted @ 17.42 yesterday and it is still sitting there as proof..... you even  had the temerity to compare the 3 super managers with Smith, which I did not do, and claim it was me.

Look, We are both mad Villa fans who clearly see events differently.....I will always make my case to the best of my ability, that doesn't make me right.....I too learn a lot from other posters, posts, even the ones I disagree with.

I think to go toe to toe on every line of a posters post, is not in the spirit of this site......We both need to stop it or just ignore each other, which would be a shame.

Edited June 30, 2020 by TRO

[foreveryoung]

I don't care Brentford have bought some good players, they are a different side now Smith has gone. Speaks volumes to me, watching the game they certainly know where the goal is. Something that is missing from our team.

[VillaCas]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

thats a bit rich.....this is what you quoted......what am I to deduce from that quote?

"Great post - Klopps real strength is man management, I imagine that is where he focuses much of his effort"

Too much imagining here = opinions.....I guess we just have different ones.

Do you disagree that his key strength is man management? 

[Tomaszk]

5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I don't care Brentford have bought some good players, they are a different side now Smith has gone. Speaks volumes to me, watching the game they certainly know where the goal is. Something that is missing from our team.

MAKE VILLA GREAT AGAIN

[VillaCas]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

"Thats not how things work these days - the manager is no longer all-powerful"

That was your response @ 17.42 yesterday........to my post of 29/6/2020@ 16.31

I then responded back again at 17.42 on 29/6/2020, mentioning Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho ....questioning your above statement.

....................... 

.....but you have accused me of saying the very thing that you posted @ 17.42 yesterday and it is still sitting there as proof..... you even  had the temerity to compare the 3 super managers with Smith, which I did not do, and claim it was me.

The discussion was about how much blame Smith should carry for the strength of the squad - you were very critical of Smith

I said that managers are no longer all powerful (and that DofF have a huge role these days)

You said tell that to Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho

I said Smith isn’t Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho (Note I never said that you had said this)

The point being that Smith is a novice in PL terms and does not have the influence that a Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho carry (and as other posters highlighted, even these top coaches need to work within a structure)

Please let me know if you feel misquoted here

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

Do you disagree that his key strength is man management? 

It certainly is a strength of his, but in my opinion he has many......I would suspect ,managing up, is another of his strengths.....I think signing the goal keeper and Van Dijk was also a master stroke.....He has so many strengths.

Apparently he turned down United a few seasons before he joined Liverpool, so his due dilligence was spot on too......He is such a good all rounder.

Edited June 30, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

The discussion was about how much blame Smith should carry for the strength of the squad - you were very critical of Smith

I said that managers are no longer all powerful (and that DofF have a huge role these days)

You said tell that to Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho

I said Smith isn’t Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho (Note I never said that you had said this)

The point being that Smith is a novice in PL terms and does not have the influence that a Klopp, Guardiola or Mourinho carry (and as other posters highlighted, even these top coaches need to work within a structure)

Please let me know if you feel misquoted here

No, that is more like it.

but I do think we have our wires slightly skewed......The third line was in response to your comment on the second line only and not intended to be linked to Smith, thats where the misunderstanding has derived from....semantics I guess.

But when you said "Maybe Smith trusted Suso to do his job? Suso Failed"......I then said "Thats all a bit passive"......meaning, "I think Dean has to take more responsibility than that"

Look, both of us do not know enough detail in the transactions to be certain of the degree of responsibility.........what we do know is too many of those players have not given us enough in return.

Edited June 30, 2020 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

It certainly is a strength of his, but in my opinion he has many......I would suspect ,managing up, is another of his strengths.....I think signing the goal keeper and Van Dijk was also a master stroke.....He has so many strengths.

Klopp didn't sign them.

The analysts who sign all their players did.

[TRO]

Just now, Tomaszk said:

Klopp didn't sign them.

The analysts who sign all their players did.

Goodnight.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

MAKE VILLA GREAT AGAIN

.......get a Data Analyst.

[MotoMkali]

6 hours ago, Hev said:

Great FFP waived just as we are likely to drop down. Had it been waived this season we cd have bought better players. Typical that will mean Newcastle's likely new mega rich owners will be able to spend like Man City.

Tbf I misunderstood, they are discussing waiving it, not definitely are (but I imagine it is virtually a sure thing), I also believe they are planning to relax it for the championship and we don't have to meet profit and sustainability guidelines as the 3 years period is coming to an end (assuming we go up straight away).

[LxYoungAVFC]

I'd love to see him on the YouTube channel "The coache's voice" so he can explain to us all what the hell he's telling the players to do.

[Zatman]

11 hours ago, TRO said:

It certainly is a strength of his, but in my opinion he has many......I would suspect ,managing up, is another of his strengths.....I think signing the goal keeper and Van Dijk was also a master stroke.....He has so many strengths.

Apparently he turned down United a few seasons before he joined Liverpool, so his due dilligence was spot on too......He is such a good all rounder.

Michael Edwards makes the signings at Liverpool

[AvfcRigo82]

15 hours ago, Hev said:

Great FFP waived just as we are likely to drop down. Had it been waived this season we cd have bought better players. Typical that will mean Newcastle's likely new mega rich owners will be able to spend like Man City.

What's the matter with you!? Get a grip will you!

Don't you realise we don't need decent managers anymore!?

- Most of our fans seem quite content with dropping down a league so we look like world beaters next season with our current squad who will all stay and no one will want Grealish now either as he has become a big problem to us too.

Let's just all continue to wait patiently for Mick McCarthy, or another high class manager of his magnitude to arrive and sort this mess out and take us back to the highs of English football.   

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by AvfcRigo82