abdulaziz1 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: You mean Graham Potter who is just as inexperienced as Dean and doing just marginally better in the league with an established PL squad? Potter, Dyche and Howe showed how can they manage small teams with small budget and keep their teams up while being inexperienced. The difference between them and DS is that he didn't have the time to build his squad, wether it's in the championship or in the PL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvilla28 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: By the same token I've not really seen a persuasive argument for saying he has failed and should be sacked. He exceeded expectations in getting us promoted so quick, exceeded expectations in the League Cup and looks like we are staying in the Prem despite having a flawed and inexperienced squad. Let's just wait and see what happens with the rest of the season first, then we can plan properly for whatever comes. He hasn't failed ?.All I hear it's on the players there not good enough etc etc or promotion . Any coach bare minimum should be to have his side organised with a plan and a system that he goes with no matter the quality of players.He has neither mistakes after mistakes, disjointed side and chopping and changing systems.We a getting worse by the week no improvement and now lacking fight at times. Any coach who can't get that should be gone. Edited March 17, 2020 by ozvilla28 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I think both of them are very good managers with scope to improve, do you think they are good managers? I do. I just find it interesting that someone would want to replace Smith with Potter considering by whatever metric that Smith is apparently failing, Potter would too. They're under somewhat similar circumstances too. Difference is Potter looks to being given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: I do. I just find it interesting that someone would want to replace Smith with Potter considering by whatever metric that Smith is apparently failing, Potter would too. They're under somewhat similar circumstances too. Difference is Potter looks to being given time. Why would Potter be given time but not Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said: Potter, Dyche and Howe showed how can they manage small teams with small budget and keep their teams up while being inexperienced. The difference between them and DS is that he didn't have the time to build his squad, wether it's in the championship or in the PL. Potter hasn't kept anybody up yet in Premier League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: Potter hasn't kept anybody up yet in Premier League I think he will though and go on to better things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I think he will though and go on to better things They haven't won a game since December 28th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: They haven't won a game since December 28th He’ll turn them around if he’s given time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Put enough poor managers in the same league and some of them will inevitably have "good" seasons, they can't all go down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Put enough poor managers in the same league and some of them will inevitably have "good" seasons, they can't all go down. Who do you think are poor managers in this league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Who do you think are poor managers in this league? Every manager at a club below Everton, who's last name isn't Howe Edited March 17, 2020 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, kurtsimonw said: Every manager at a club below Everton, who's last name isn't Howe Disagree Howe is pretty shit too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, romavillan said: YEah just a nice bloke who took over a **** basket case 15th in the Championship and got them promoted by randomly getting them to play some of the best football I can remember seeing Villa play by just being nice to them down at bodymoor heath. So where has the "best football" disappeared to? being progressive is not entering in to huge peaks and troughs.......good runs and poor runs is not an indication of controlled progression.......gradual improvement of all on an incremental basis, is what indicates that we are on the right track.....equally, having such a poor record in all things defence, is not a good indication that progress is on track. In terms of defending, its just not one thing either, its a whole catalogue of defensive issues that coming together, spell serious situation. there was no sign going in to our last game, that any one of those issues, has improved. We simply can't keep looking over our shoulder and patting ourselves for things that have happened in a different league.....we got promotion, because the league reckoned, by way of the competition, that we was ready for a higher level of football. It is complete folly to suggest that at team who can't defend play great football, its just half a job done.......its like a horse who is great in the early furlongs, but can't finish. In my humble opinion, defending as a subject has been totally underrated with many posters at the expense of the spectacle, many have inadvertently traded it off on the basis of "good football" which in effect is a myth. i will tell you here and now.....If Dean Smith fails to improve our defending as a team, he will lose his job in time, no matter how well he gets us to play offensively.....that i am absolutely certain. ps it might also be worth mentioning, defensive capability in a team also contributes to the label good footballing team, its not a necessary evil.....its a central part of being a good team. Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Who do you think are poor managers in this league? A league table is there for a reason......it lists the teams in order of merit, the better managers usually occupy the best teams.....good managers are central to good teams. There are all sorts of rationale that can dictate misfortune and all teams have to deal with that. They say over 38 games all the misfortune evens itself out, not always, but usually....therefore you usually end up where you deserve to be. It might be worth remembering managers have a plethora of skills to be competent at, some are better at certain things than others, but its the overall skill set that seperates them. its also worth noting the best managers gravitate to the best players, they want their hard earned reputation preserved, hence the best managers usually have the best players. Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said: Potter, Dyche and Howe showed how can they manage small teams with small budget and keep their teams up while being inexperienced. The difference between them and DS is that he didn't have the time to build his squad, wether it's in the championship or in the PL. The time, is an interesting one for me....in isolation, its a fair claim....all well built teams needed time....but equally all the bad ones, claim it too, its only when the obvious is declared, that the halt is made. but remember this "time" is not just a bed partner to Good practice' its also a shield to camouflage bad practice too......only incremental improvement suggests which route we are on. Its a claim ALL managers want and its that feasibilty that protects the ones that are never going to get it right. Edited March 17, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 hours ago, kurtsimonw said: Put enough poor managers in the same league and some of them will inevitably have "good" seasons, they can't all go down. If we were to sack Smith, who could we get that's not shit then? If better teams than us came seem to attract one. Might as well just stick to our shit one like the rest seem to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Keyblade said: If we were to sack Smith, who could we get that's not shit then? If better teams than us came seem to attract one. Might as well just stick to our shit one like the rest seem to be doing. Shit teams attract shit managers, shit teams being all teams currently below Everton in the league (arguable yes?) we are currently a really shit team (bottom three) and need a manager to take us to the top of the shit teams...so just below a top 10 side? I don't think DS can do this and has reached his level he's a Steve Bruce but with nicer football. No great shakes is what it is. Strange times right now with Covid-19 lets use it to recruit a decent long term manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zab6359 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 9 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said: Potter, Dyche and Howe showed how can they manage small teams with small budget and keep their teams up while being inexperienced. The difference between them and DS is that he didn't have the time to build his squad, wether it's in the championship or in the PL. Arguable Dyche is the only real over achiever there! Rest are mediocre/poor PL managers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, zab6359 said: Shit teams attract shit managers, shit teams being all teams currently below Everton in the league (arguable yes?) we are currently a really shit team (bottom three) and need a manager to take us to the top of the shit teams...so just below a top 10 side? I don't think DS can do this and has reached his level he's a Steve Bruce but with nicer football. No great shakes is what it is. Strange times right now with Covid-19 lets use it to recruit a decent long term manager. Who can we attract that can do that? We're a shit team. We were just promoted as the 5th place Championship team. We're not exactly going to attract an Ancelotti are we? Also it's not even time to be thinking about being at the top of the shit pile. We're still paying Championship wages. Our goal has always been just be the least shit out of the bottom 4 teams so I don't understand this urgency to shoot straight to midtable when even Purslow admits it would take about 3 years of steady growth to even compete with the Burnleys of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 3 hours ago, TRO said: So where has the "best football" disappeared to? We've been promoted. The Premier League is more difficult than the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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