Dean Smith

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

For reference, in the last 18 months alone, these are the times where they have put 5 or more past a team. Every team on this list bar 2 either have not been relegated that season, currently out of the bottom 3 this season or incredibly, CL teams.

Huddersfield 6-1
Cardiff 5-0
Burnley 5-0
Southampton 6-1
Burnley 5-0
Chelsea 6-0
Schalke 7-0
Watford 6-0
West Ham 5-0
Watford 8-0
Atalanta 5-1

This just is absolutely astonishing. And fair play to Liverpool to even compete with them, let alone have overshadowed them this season.

[Keyblade]

31 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

This just is absolutely astonishing. And fair play to Liverpool to even compete with them, let alone have overshadowed them this season.

They really are the greatest side the PL has ever witnessed, and Liverpool aren't too far behind. We might as well be separated by 2 leagues such is the gulf in quality.

[KentVillan]

Just checked his Walsall record for myself. The devil is in the detail.

I think you really have to look at 2010-11 and 2015-16 in the context of when he arrived and left, and look at points per game rather than the final league position, so I've broken it down properly:

• Pre-Smith
  • 2008-09  W 17  D 10  L 19  GF 61  GA 66  Pts 61 (points per game: 1.33)
  • 2009-10  W 16  D 14  L 16  GF 60  GA 63  Pts 62 (points per game: 1.35)
  • 2010-11 (to 20th Jan) W 5  D 4  L 15  GF 26  GA 48  Pts 19 (points per game: 0.79)
• Smith
  • 2010-11 (from 21st Jan) W 7  D 8  L 7  GF 30  GA 27  Pts 29 (points per game: 1.32)
  • 2011-12 W 10  D 20  L 16  GF 51  GA 57  Pts 50 (points per game: 1.09)
  • 2012-13 W 17  D 17  L 12  GF 65  GA 58  Pts 68 (points per game: 1.48)
  • 2013-14 W 14  D 16  L 16  GF 49  GA 49  Pts 58 (points per game: 1.26)
  • 2014-15 W 14  D 17  L 15  GF 50  GA 54  Pts 59 (points per game: 1.28)
  • 2015-16 (to 30th Nov) W 10  D 6  L 3  GF 32  GA 18  Pts 36 (points per game: 1.89)
• Post-Smith
  • 2015-16 (from 1st Dec) W 14  D 6  L 7  GF 39  GA 38  Pts 48  (points per game: 1.77)
  • 2016-17 W 14  D 16  L 16  GF 51  GA 58  Pts 58 (points per game: 1.26)
  • 2017-18 W 13  D 13  L 20  GF 53  GA 66  Pts 52 (points per game: 1.13) 
  • 2018-19 W 12  D 11  L 23  GF 49  GA 71  Pts 47 (points per game: 1.02)

I don't know how you can draw any conclusion other than that he improved the team, and they got progressively worse after he left. That 1.89 points per game form he had when he left Walsall would have been good enough for automatic promotion, but they tailed off a bit and lost in the play offs.

(Also, it was his first role in management, and contrary to some claims on here, he massively improved their defensive record.)

Edited January 14, 2020 by KentVillan

[Adam2003]

48 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

They really are the greatest side the PL has ever witnessed, and Liverpool aren't too far behind. We might as well be separated by 2 leagues such is the gulf in quality.

Agreed!

[jonjon]

Just a thought from a neutral, I see on the BBC news that Neil Warnock is looking for some football work until the end of the season while his house in Cornwall is being renovated, instead of getting rid of DS at a great cost why not try and persuade Warnock to help out in an advisory capacity until then, he brings bags of winning experience with him, might not be pretty to watch his brand of football, but he knows how to shore up a defence, because at the moment you are in danger of heading the wrong way unless something is done very quickly, this might be a good short term solution and cheaper!!!

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, jonjon said:

Just a thought from a neutral, I see on the BBC news that Neil Warnock is looking for some football work until the end of the season while his house in Cornwall is being renovated, instead of getting rid of DS at a great cost why not try and persuade Warnock to help out in an advisory capacity until then, he brings bags of winning experience with him, might not be pretty to watch his brand of football, but he knows how to shore up a defence, because at the moment you are in danger of heading the wrong way unless something is done very quickly, this might be a good short term solution and cheaper!!!

[dounavilla]

3 hours ago, jonjon said:

Just a thought from a neutral, I see on the BBC news that Neil Warnock is looking for some football work until the end of the season while his house in Cornwall is being renovated, instead of getting rid of DS at a great cost why not try and persuade Warnock to help out in an advisory capacity until then, he brings bags of winning experience with him, might not be pretty to watch his brand of football, but he knows how to shore up a defence, because at the moment you are in danger of heading the wrong way unless something is done very quickly, this might be a good short term solution and cheaper!!!

[Tom13]

Don't forget we've handed out a 5-1 spanking this season ourselves!

[Blasterpocket68]

18 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

After half the season Smith has to be fully responsible for this, he sent that team out against City with no belief, when probably the team wanted to have a go, defo Grealish would have. It's no good protecting Smith and saying the team is not good enough, we have already seen on many occasions they are capable. In reality though, it must be so hard for Smith to gel the team, when he still don't even know his best system.

Had Smith studied how Wolves, an even Norwich played against City, he would have realised the best way against City is to go at them, not try park the bus old skool style, this gives them time on the ball and lets them play the fantastic pass and move football we have all seen from them. I personally thought it was very amateurish of him to play that system against a team like City who are just brilliant when they have freedom to play.

He still has so much to learn, as I have said before, the PL is no place to learn your trade, an it's showing. Lose the next 2 and the only fans he will have left, will the ones who are happy to go back to the Championship with him, an I'm not one of them.

I agree Smith is to blame , he picks the team he flip flops about with players and formation. I do agree also he has messed around to much . We wont change the manager now . we have what we have .

we have 21 points from 22 games and need at least 19 points more from the remaining 16 games.( Assuming the magic 40 points is safe )  5 wins and 4 draws and we could afford possibly to drop another 7 games. This is not impossible!  

We have got to stick with him and the team now until the end of the season .   I personally think it will be very tight but we may just survive . The crowd Sunday stuck with the team and was amazing  given we gave city the freedom of villa park!! UTV 

[striker]

21 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

They didn't need to. Wilder had been in charge three years and had built a team/squad over that time. When we played them three weeks ago 9 of the players that played against us played for Sheff Utd last season.

I am sure had we have not got promoted last May we'd have still seen a huge overhaul in players in the summer but trying to get a new squad to gel and be competitive in the Championship is a world away from doing it in the Premier League.

The aim would then have been to have come up and do what Sheff Utd did and make a few additions to an already settled squad rather than the whole sale changes we had to make.

Smith has to a degree been a victim of his own success by getting us promoted so quickly. If he keeps us up though it will be as fine an achievement as getting us up. 

Pretty much this.

Always felt that Villa were promoted a year too early. Its very difficult to get a new team to gel quickly especially in the Premiership and when you consider injuries to key players then Villa were always going to struggle this season.

Furthermore, bringing new players in this month is also going to exacerbate the current situation further unless those players hit the ground running. Probably why Villa have signed players this window that have already played in the Premiership.

I would guess that's one of the reasons why Villa haven't signed a striker yet as they're looking for one with Premiership experience and Premiership clubs are either reluctant to sell or asking astronomical fees.

Considering the above even though Smith has made mistakes this season (all managers do) I do not think it wise to sack the manager so late in the window.

Edited January 14, 2020 by striker

[Risso]

21 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Suicidal Risso need to cheer up methinks

I remember you calling for O'Neill to be sacked in his second year when we were 10th in the league! 

[Stuartc445]

21 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Thanks for that!

That's 14 points from 14 starts for Targett, and 7 points from 8 starts for Taylor.

So **** all difference, especially if you count the Palace game as a draw. Ah well, good to test your assumptions 

(I do still think Targett is the better option because he offers so much more in attack, and Taylor's fixture list has been a touch easier. Mings was injured for several of the games Targett started, and you could argue the Burnley game is a W on Targett's ledger, since we were winning when he left the pitch. Really want to see Targett at LWB.)

Yeah play a player in defence that is great going forward but it completely incompetent when it comes to defending. @LakotaDakota points out we were only 1:0 down vs Wolves with Targett on, that was a total fluke because had Wolves had been better with their shots they'd have had a hat full by the time Targett went off.  It wasn't until Taylor came on that we showed even a hint of resistance to Adama Traore.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, striker said:

Pretty much this.

Always felt that Villa were promoted a year too early. Its very difficult to get a new team to gel quickly especially in the Premiership and when you consider injuries to key players then Villa were always going to struggle this season.

Furthermore, bringing new players in this month is also going to exacerbate the current situation further unless those players hit the ground running. Probably why Villa have signed players this window that have already played in the Premiership.

I would guess that's one of the reasons why Villa haven't signed a striker yet as they're looking for one with Premiership experience and Premiership clubs are either reluctant to sell or asking astronomical fees.

Considering the above even though Smith has made mistakes this season (all managers do) I do not think it wise to sack the manager so late in the window.

but if we hadn't of gone up we would have lost Jack and possibly Mings and McGinn......Its not so easy to time it perfectly as its a moving feast.

[TRO]

I hear the view that Sheff Utd have been together longer than us, but equally, they was playing in Div 1 -Championship and now prem.....if anything that is more remarkable

Playing together for some time is an advantage, no doubt.....but in my View Chris Wilder has built a team that makes it hard for the opposition, sure they can play a bit, but their high intensity and combative qualities are the key for me.....they get after you, and make their presence known, we do it in odd games.

It's funny how the 2 footballing teams from last season in the championship, are the ones struggling....why, because they are not difficult to play against.

We have a soft underbelly and that comes mainly from the midfield and the wingers.....they are far too easy to play against.

[KenjiOgiwara]

13 hours ago, Risso said:

I remember you calling for O'Neill to be sacked in his second year when we were 10th in the league! 

Can't remember that, but wouldn't surprise me as I didn't get impressed by neither his football or transfers. 

[TRO]

In my humble opinion, The physicality and intensity has caught us out in this league....we wasn't really blessed with it in the championship, that is what's made it hard work for us....we came up unprepared for this....so has Norwich.

We are linked with Steven Nzozi, which makes me think the penny is finally dropping, whether he is the right player or not, its players like that we need.....too many lightweights in midfield and out wide.

[TRO]

On 13/01/2020 at 19:31, markavfc40 said:

They didn't need to. Wilder had been in charge three years and had built a team/squad over that time. When we played them three weeks ago 9 of the players that played against us played for Sheff Utd last season.

I am sure had we have not got promoted last May we'd have still seen a huge overhaul in players in the summer but trying to get a new squad to gel and be competitive in the Championship is a world away from doing it in the Premier League.

The aim would then have been to have come up and do what Sheff Utd did and make a few additions to an already settled squad rather than the whole sale changes we had to make.

Smith has to a degree been a victim of his own success by getting us promoted so quickly. If he keeps us up though it will be as fine an achievement as getting us up. 

but its paradoxical Mark.

Sheff Utd have stayed together in the 3 divisions, because its working, their blue print works...they are not great individuals, but the team works......some would say how can a division one assembled team sit in the top 10 of the Premiership for half a season.

you only have to watch them play and compare to us.....its clear.

We in contrast are always changing players, because we are struggling to get it to work, we will always have this argument of settling in time the way we are going.

Dean smith did a remarkable job of getting us up, I didn't think we would, but it didn't go unnoticed last season we struggled agains Leeds and Albion ( despite the semi-final) without Tammy, I think we would have failed.

While we are flirting with the transition of Relegation and promotion, the recruitment door will always be spinning, particularly if we sign players that are not doing what it says on the tin.

It hasn't took McBurnie long to settle in, has it?......a player we would probably turn our nose up to......I would guess most of their players would fail with us.

ps If he keeps us up it will be, but if we are in this situation a season later, it won't be....but how do we know how long these things take?

Edited January 15, 2020 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

It hasn't took McBurnie long to settle in, has it?......a player we would probably turn our nose up to......I would guess most of their players would fail with us.

To be fair our fans would probably be slaughtering McBurnie had we signed him if his current return of 4 goals in 20 games was the same with us. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

To be fair our fans would probably be slaughtering McBurnie had we signed him if his current return of 4 goals in 20 games was the same with us. 

yeah , possibly and McGoldrick hasn't scored many either, but both of them work for the team....... but my point is they(some fans) would slaughter any of their players if we signed them.

we have our head in the clouds when it comes to signings, but can't get the basics right in many games.

Edited January 15, 2020 by TRO

[Zatman]

We have scred more goals than Sheffield United this season so the strikers they have probably wouldnt improve us so much. We have conceded 22 more goals than them but they have an organised well drilled defensive structure

Edited January 15, 2020 by Zatman