Pimlico_Villa Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, jim said: Are our players any worse than Sheffield United’s who currently sit eighth? Yes, they are a lot worse. A lot worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: probably they also have a system they build up with a manager now in his 4th season which people are also ignoring It’s hardly a wonder system though is it? They work hard for each other and as a team. They fight for everything. Is that too much to expect? It’s the basics of football. You don’t need years to achieve that. Edited December 29, 2019 by jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlico_Villa Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said: Oh no. That’s very Brucey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/12/28/deans-debrief-watford Quote If there’s a player down who’s playing everyone onside, I’d like to think my players would kick the ball out. Watford carried on and scored a goal. In the cut-throat premier league are we just too nice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Just now, Brumstopdogs said: https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/12/28/deans-debrief-watford Watford carried on and scored a goal. In the cut-throat premier league are we just too nice? We carried on too and lost the ball though. They scored from that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Jimmyg said: I just wonder as a Villa fan does dean smith want himself gone? I thought this to myself you know. However, it could also be the opposite, he could be determined to not fail, and have to be dragged out kicking. Anyway i've calmed down. Trying to look at this from an angle. We all wanted a system/blueprint or whatever you'd like to call it implemented for the long term, could this be why Smith is being stubborn, and also why the board will be stubborn in keeping with him and at it? Yes we need to win games to stay up, but for all we know, the board along with Deano have decided that they are going to stick with the system, until it comes good, regardless of results. Drilling it into the players and club from top to bottom. Players not responding? So be it they might think, they will either eventually become squad players, or moved on entirely, at a break even rate or even profit in some cases, with only the best and the ones which have integrated staying. As painful as it may be, they might even be willing to take the hit on Jack going, for the "Long term" vision. They might even be willing to take the hit of relegation for it. Now I don't know how it was at Brentford, but how long did it take to turn their structure into the seamless machine it now is - we can probably add the likes of Sheffield United to that? Wolves as we know, are sort of an anomaly, but we obviously won't be doing this the "Wolves' way, as much as I'd love to. I could be totally wrong obviously, but indications seem to be something like this. Edited December 29, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Brumstopdogs said: https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/12/28/deans-debrief-watford Watford carried on and scored a goal. In the cut-throat premier league are we just too nice? We should have kicked it out. They carried on playing because we did and lost the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Sheffield United weren't promoted at a canter last season, they only came up automatically because Leeds imploded in the second half of the season and we took just as many points as them from the time that Smith came in. Wilder's flavour of the month at the moment but eventually Sheffield United's form will drop and people will forget about him, I remember when Owen Coyle was doing well at either Burnley or Bolton and people were talking him up saying he should replace Wenger at Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Targett fell down injured when we had the ball and the Villa players still tried and moved forward with it albeit that was probably because they didn't realize he was injured. Imo, if you try and start and attack whilst your player is injured, the other team has free reign to do the same instead of just putting the ball out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said: We carried on too and lost the ball though. They scored from that. Smith is talking about the Watford though: "Play should be stopped because Watford know we’ve got a man down. If there’s a player down who’s playing everyone onside, I’d like to think my players would kick the ball out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, jim said: It’s hardly a wonder system though is it? They work hard for each other and as a team. They fight for everything. Is that too much to expect? It’s the basics of football. You don’t need years to achieve that. They play a 352 with attacking centre backs when they can. Every player knows the role and language as Wilder doesn't recruit drom abroad He wouldn't be able do it here for about 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I thought this to myself you know. However, it could also be the opposite, he could be determined to not fail, and have to be dragged out kicking. Anyway i've calmed down. Trying to look at this from an angle. We all wanted a system/blueprint or whatever you'd like to call it implemented for the long term, could this be why Smith is being stubborn, and also why the board will be stubborn in keeping with him and at it? Yes we need to win games to stay up, but for all we know, the board along with Deano have decided that they are going to stick with the system, until it comes good, regardless of results. Drilling it into the players and club from top to bottom. Players not responding? So be it they might think, they will either eventually become squad players, or moved on entirely, at a break even rate or even profit in some cases, with only the best and the ones which have integrated staying. As painful as it may be, they might even be willing to take the hit on Jack going, for the "Long term" vision. Now I don't know how it was at Brentford, but how long did it take to turn their structure into the seamless machine it now is? I could be totally wrong obviously, but indications seem to be something like this. This, it was said just after the POF we were ahead of schedule going up, we had a huge job replacing the team that won that final, only jack, hourihane, lansbury and Elmo are still involved and we all know Jack is way above our level, Conor isn't good enough consistently in the prem and lansbury and elmo aren't good enough full stop I think we will go down and smith will stay on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Just now, Zatman said: They play a 352 with attacking centre backs when they can. Every player knows the role and language as Wilder doesn't recruit drom abroad He wouldn't be able do it here for about 2 seasons Oh right, it’s because our players are foreign. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, jim said: Are our players any worse than Sheffield United’s who currently sit eighth? You'd argue it's close but most their players have been together a while, ours barely 6 months. You can also swing it the other way that West Ham have spent chunks and are 1 point ahead of us, Everton were also in trouble a couple of games ago. People seem to think 22m for Welsey is a lot (He's been poor) but Haller cost 45m, Joelinton 40m, Kean 27m, Solanke 19m this is the going rate for mid table strikers who will blow hot and cold. Of the players that started yesterday Elmo, Hause, Konsa, Lansbury, Hourihane, Jota all shouldn't be near our starting 11. They are Championship players or back up/squad fillers/prospects for a Prem club but we find ourselves having to start all 6 of them. Smith isn't covering himself in glory either by persisting with Wesley & looking tactically stubborn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I thought this to myself you know. However, it could also be the opposite, he could be determined to not fail, and have to be dragged out kicking. Anyway i've calmed down. Trying to look at this from an angle. We all wanted a system/blueprint or whatever you'd like to call it implemented for the long term, could this be why Smith is being stubborn, and also why the board will be stubborn in keeping with him and at it? Yes we need to win games to stay up, but for all we know, the board along with Deano have decided that they are going to stick with the system, until it comes good, regardless of results. Drilling it into the players and club from top to bottom. Players not responding? So be it they might think, they will either eventually become squad players, or moved on entirely, at a break even rate or even profit in some cases, with only the best and the ones which have integrated staying. As painful as it may be, they might even be willing to take the hit on Jack going, for the "Long term" vision. They might even be willing to take the hit of relegation for it. Now I don't know how it was at Brentford, but how long did it take to turn their structure into the seamless machine it now is - we can probably add the likes of Sheffield United to that? Wolves as we know, are sort of an anomaly, but we obviously won't be doing this the "Wolves' way, as much as I'd love to. I could be totally wrong obviously, but indications seem to be something like this. Keep in mind, I'm absolutely no Brentford fan so the context may make a world of difference. But just from doing a bit of research, the year before Smith came in they finished 5th. The years he was there they finished 9th, 10th and 9th and 11th(if you were to count the season he left for us). And this season, they're now 3rd in the table so far. It really does seem like he was holding them back at first glancce imo. I guess you could also interpret it as him leaving a good legacy for his successors too. Really depends on how you want to look at it. Makes me question this mythical Brentford system that so many praise. Edited December 29, 2019 by Laughable Chimp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Can you imagine if Steve Bruce said "go and win tackles" I think it's time for the cabbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, jim said: Oh right, it’s because our players are foreign. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. To understand tactical changes they need to know the language. Its not a computer game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordVillan Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said: https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2019/12/28/deans-debrief-watford Watford carried on and scored a goal. In the cut-throat premier league are we just too nice? Yes. We’re naive, we’re whingers. We have players who wave their arms around whilst walking after not getting a free kick. That has to be eradicated straight away, and that has to come from the manager. We have to adopt a no-excuses culture. Quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 21 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I thought this to myself you know. However, it could also be the opposite, he could be determined to not fail, and have to be dragged out kicking. Anyway i've calmed down. Trying to look at this from an angle. We all wanted a system/blueprint or whatever you'd like to call it implemented for the long term, could this be why Smith is being stubborn, and also why the board will be stubborn in keeping with him and at it? Yes we need to win games to stay up, but for all we know, the board along with Deano have decided that they are going to stick with the system, until it comes good, regardless of results. Drilling it into the players and club from top to bottom. Players not responding? So be it they might think, they will either eventually become squad players, or moved on entirely, at a break even rate or even profit in some cases, with only the best and the ones which have integrated staying. As painful as it may be, they might even be willing to take the hit on Jack going, for the "Long term" vision. They might even be willing to take the hit of relegation for it. Now I don't know how it was at Brentford, but how long did it take to turn their structure into the seamless machine it now is - we can probably add the likes of Sheffield United to that? Wolves as we know, are sort of an anomaly, but we obviously won't be doing this the "Wolves' way, as much as I'd love to. I could be totally wrong obviously, but indications seem to be something like this. In a strange way, I hope you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, holteend1982 said: Can you imagine if Steve Bruce said "go and win tackles" I think it's time for the cabbage. But that's exactly what they need to do regardless of who said it. There is a distinct lack of intensity to this team and the quicker it's sorted the better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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