LxYoungAVFC Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Davis and Conor should have come on as soon as they went down to 10 men. This might have forced them to make a defensive substitution and invite pressure for the rest of the game. I feel like we use our substitutions to react to what the opponent is doing. I don't agree with this way of thinking. At home we must be the team dictating the flow of the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 I don't think he uses his subs well generally but it was especially bad last night. I understand the players on the bench aren't great but it was crying out for changes when they went down to 10. I think Smith was happy with a point to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted September 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2019 Think the whole club might have both overestimated themselves and underestimated the step up in quality a bit. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, sne said: Think the whole club might have both overestimated themselves and underestimated the step up in quality a bit. I kind of agree. I thought that watching Watford against Arsenal on Sunday. Even little old Watford have Deulofeu. Palace have Zaha. Bournemouth have a plethora of match winners. I'd take Redmond from Southampton in our current state. We just don't have the squad and the match winners that these teams do right now, and it will be a year or two slog until we probably will. That will be success, this year and next, just staying up and developing our squad. We will attract them eventually, and a year or two of PL money would be helpful... We are bigger and better clubs than those listed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted September 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, sne said: Think the whole club might have both overestimated themselves and underestimated the step up in quality a bit. I don't see that at all. You have a turnover of 25 odd players, which we had little choice but to do, then it is always going to take time to come together and likely mean that as the season progresses we'll get stronger and I think that is the expectation at the club. I think a little perspective is needed from some of us. We have played and in the main competed well against a side that finished runners up in the Champions league, two others that finished top 10 last season then spent big over the summer and two that finished mid table. We are trying to integrate more players than any other club in the top flight. Where as West Ham spent big on a few players to supplement a good squad that finished 10th in the Premier League last season we have spent around 130 mill on 12 players trying to improve on a squad that was decimated over the summer having finished 5th in the Championship last season. I am actually quietly optimistic based on what I have seen so far. We look solid defensively which is some going after only 5 games. Going forward we just aren't quite clicking but we have 6 players in those midfield/attacking positions who are not only adjusting to a new league but in most cases adjusting to a new club. My expectations at the start of the season were for us to hopefully finish 17th this season and anything above that being a bonus. I think that is realistic given the huge overhaul that was undertaken in the summer. Based on what I have seen so far, and the fact that we are likely to get stronger the longer the season goes on and the more the players play/train together, then I am confident my expectations will be met. Edited September 17, 2019 by markavfc40 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, villa89 said: I don't think he uses his subs well generally but it was especially bad last night. I understand the players on the bench aren't great but it was crying out for changes when they went down to 10. I think Smith was happy with a point to be honest. I think it was more a case that he saw what we saw, we couldn't score last night even if we played for 10 hours straight and even with 10 men Ham looked more threatening than us. I personally would have gotten Hourihane and Davis on very early, especially since Jota was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raver50032 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: I kind of agree. I thought that watching Watford against Arsenal on Sunday. Even little old Watford have Deulofeu. Palace have Zaha. Bournemouth have a plethora of match winners. I'd take Redmond from Southampton in our current state. We just don't have the squad and the match winners that these teams do right now, and it will be a year or two slog until we probably will. That will be success, this year and next, just staying up and developing our squad. We will attract them eventually, and a year or two of PL money would be helpful... We are bigger and better clubs than those listed. I don't agree with all of this post, but trophy given for the big green bold bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Lets be honest though. It will be and was always on the cards that we have to fight relegation. We got up through the playoffs, we lost core players. Obviously we could have use for another striker, a winger and a better left back. We signed a whole lot of players and it's a big job getting them to become a team. More signings will come, and hopefully we can escape the drop. We are a huge work in progress. But it's not like we lost yesterday. We gained another point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lexicon Posted September 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2019 54 minutes ago, sne said: Think the whole club might have both overestimated themselves and underestimated the step up in quality a bit. I think the fans have, rather than the club. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Worth noting we are joint-top of clean-sheets with 5 games gone, we have a more than capable defence to survive this league (west ham had 1 shot on target, a speculative effort from noble). Personally, i thought at times last night we played some wonderful football with some lovely one-touch passing, but the attacking side of the team at times seemed disjointed. This is to be expected as the team is still learning to play with each other on matchdays, anyone who thought it would have "clicked" this soon into the season were slightly deluded in my opinion. Give the lads some time, the finished article will be worth the wait. Edited September 17, 2019 by carewjust4u 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Bazmonkey said: I agree with this..the space between the lines is either too big or to tight especially when we defend. Last night there were lots of examples of the back four and nakamba being close then no one near..this forces it wide and west ham put the pressure on jota and el gazi. I'd like to see Gilbert engles mings taylor (for now) Luiz nakamba Grealish hourihane mcginn Wes or davies. The three of grealish mcginn and hourihane rotating round. We also need to press more. We gave too much respect last night. We seem to retreat to the 18 yard box and let them have acres of space and bring the ball forward with ease. Had Anderson been better he would have had a field day last night Good post. I think with Nakamba having a solid debut and Luiz more settled in, and added to the fact that the wingers aren't quite "at it", I would definitely look to playing that team above (more so if or when Targett is fit) - I think it 'could' work well. Newly promoted I can see why Smith is keeping to a settled formation but Brighton away in the cup would be a perfect chance to try something different IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Did Mcginn hint at a possible change by Smith if we can't get something out of the next couple of games, he certainly says Smith might possibly change it up if it's not happening. I seriously still say it's winger issues, not so much as in total quality issues but a timing issue, still seeing that ball on the flanks being held up waiting for players to arrive. Angles of the crosses are from the same spots and coming in at a pace or angle that's easy to deal with by opposition. At this rate Jota, Trez and Ghazi I'm afraid are going to pop for the first whipping if they don't sort it. Until the service is properly provided into that box to a lone striker off the wings, you can't really take a swipe at Wes. The only thing i do not like what Wes does, is he complains all to easy and doesnt stay on his feet before going to ground. For a guy of his build and height, he has to make the most of it as Mcginn did, Mcginn could of easy went down for a P shout but did his best to stay up. January can't come soon enough at this rate, I feel we are already in need of some much needed quality reinforcements at the Wings, and one striker we could do with breaking the bank for who Wesley could easily partner with. Edited September 17, 2019 by Dave-R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, lexicon said: I think the fans have, rather than the club. Yeah might very well be so. I've said all along that I'd be content with 17th and building a foundation for future seasons. Just hope the club and players understand that for example Grealish and McGinn won't be able to do in the PL what they did in the Championship. I was also very worried about that Mings would not be able to adjust to the higher level pressing and his habit to be a bit adventurous on the ball. But that's not been an issue as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dave-R said: Did Mcginn hint at a possible change by Smith if we can't get something out of the next couple of games, he certainly says Smith might possibly change it up if it's not happening. I seriously still say it's winger issues, not so much as in total quality issues but a timing issue, still seeing that ball on the flanks being held up waiting for players to arrive. Angles of the crosses are from the same spots and coming in at a pace or angle that's easy to deal with by opposition. At this rate Jota, Trez and Ghazi I'm afraid are going to pop for the first whipping if they don't sort it. Until the service is properly provided into that box to a lone striker off the wings, you can't really take a swipe at Wes. The only thing i do not like what Wes does, is he complains all to easy and doesnt stay on his feet before going to ground. For a guy of his build and height, he has to make the most of it as Mcginn did, Mcginn could of easy went down for a P shout but did his best to stay up. January can't come soon enough at this rate, I feel we are already in need of some much needed quality reinforcements at the Wings, and one striker we could do with breaking the bank for who Wesley could easily partner with. I also think the squad is mostly fine but with a serious lack in PL quality in a few key areas. LB and the wide positions on both sides, possibly also the striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, sne said: Yeah might very well be so. I've said all along that I'd be content with 17th and building a foundation for future seasons. Just hope the club and players understand that for example Grealish and McGinn won't be able to do in the PL what they did in the Championship. I was also very worried about that Mings would not be able to adjust to the higher level pressing and his habit to be a bit adventurous on the ball. But that's not been an issue as of yet. We're building from the bottom up, literally. Once we get shot of Taylor our back 5 will be very solid and respectable at this level. Whilst I maintain Grealish and McGinn are still taking time to adapt (and at times struggling), I think we have a respectable midfield 3 (if we persist with that set up) with some pretty decent depth with Luiz, Hourihane and even Lansbury. However when you look at the front 3, clearly the job wasn't finished. I think to a point we've been naive in expecting El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Jota to be competent at this level consistently. Wesley was a big gamble that hasn't paid off thus far. The lack of strengthening in these positions in terms of depth was a massive oversight. I think we made choices to back out of signing the likes of Benrahma and Maupay based on money without considering that we will have to revisit these positions in January and likely pay even more of a premium such is the nature of that particular window. As a result we go into the first half of the season with a weaker squad with limited attacking quality and will have to spend even more money in January to push for survival. I think the backroom probably over-estimated the quality of the attacking players we have, for sure. The fans have over-estimated us even more so. Idiotic posts on Facebook and even here were suggesting a top half push given the money we spent, absolutely ridiculous assertions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 points at home from Everton and West Ham is pretty good going I'd say. Keep that home form up this season and we should be fine. When you think about how we deserved something from every game we played bar Spurs without our front line clicking, it's very encouraging. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 It's still gives me comfort that we've yet to click offensively, but I'm sure that will come sooner than later. Defensively, we are solid as proven last night. Heaton didn't have to stretch himself too much.when it clicks we will be smiling. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: We're building from the bottom up, literally. Once we get shot of Taylor our back 5 will be very solid and respectable at this level. Whilst I maintain Grealish and McGinn are still taking time to adapt (and at times struggling), I think we have a respectable midfield 3 (if we persist with that set up) with some pretty decent depth with Luiz, Hourihane and even Lansbury. However when you look at the front 3, clearly the job wasn't finished. I think to a point we've been naive in expecting El Ghazi, Trezeguet and Jota to be competent at this level consistently. Wesley was a big gamble that hasn't paid off thus far. The lack of strengthening in these positions in terms of depth was a massive oversight. I think we made choices to back out of signing the likes of Benrahma and Maupay based on money without considering that we will have to revisit these positions in January and likely pay even more of a premium such is the nature of that particular window. As a result we go into the first half of the season with a weaker squad with limited attacking quality and will have to spend even more money in January to push for survival. I think the backroom probably over-estimated the quality of the attacking players we have, for sure. The fans have over-estimated us even more so. Idiotic posts on Facebook and even here were suggesting a top half push given the money we spent, absolutely ridiculous assertions. I think you may have found the solution there. If we play 5-3-3 we may be in with a shout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, LakotaDakota said: I think you may have found the solution there. If we play 5-3-3 we may be in with a shout Obviously back 5 includes the keeper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 We don't need to nor will Smith start changing formations. That will only make things worse, we've only played five games, players, many of them new to the country, need more time to settle and gel with each other. Chopping and changing is the last thing we need. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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