Dean Smith

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Thug said:

Under bruce we were conceding 1.67 goals per game against opposition who are currently at an average league position of 17

Under smith we are conceeding 1.43  per game against opposition who are currently at an average league positon of 9.57

 

Thanks for that. 

The current top 6 range from the best being 0.52 and the worst being 1.42.

As we score a lot of goal I think we need to be somewhere in between that ratio if want top 2 or continue as we are if happy with play offs.

I know you have don’t this but I think it’s completely pointless comparing smiths defensive record with teams around us during that same period as it would be dependant on their form since he took over. You can’t just ignore  the rest of the season of our rivals defensive just because we got a new manager. That makes no sense. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Indeed, and as I have said repeatedly before last night Smiths Villa defence had been bettered by only 2 other sides. But apparently that’s irrelevant 

Its not irrelevant,  It’s actually quite ridiculous to compare the defence of other sides during a period in our season just to try and make a point.

 We have changed a manager so yes let’s look at our last 7 games. Why the hell would we look at our rivals last games as a comparison? Has smith impacted them all? 

[Vive_La_Villa]

17 minutes ago, Thug said:

It's just some people think that we were doing better defensively under Bruce.

Who said that!! We were awful under Bruce in both defence and attack. I havent seen anyone say anything otherwise. I’ve just seen people say he left Smith a shit defence and keeper 

[TRO]

52 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

We’re not talking about the odd error. That’s normal. It seems to be costly errors every game! 

If you don’t think we have a problem at the back and are conceding too many soft goals Im them happy for you. 

Thankfully Smith doesn’t feel the same way otherwise we’d be stuck in this league for a very long time. 

How about two 0-0 draws bad, two 3-3 draws bad. 

We need wins. Doesn’t matter how they come.  Poor defending/keeping cost us 2 points yesterday, a least a points against qpr and at least a point against Norwich. 

We’re conceding very soft goals that shouldn’t be happening. There’s no red herring. We just can’t defend. 

 I concur

Edited November 30, 2018 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

21 minutes ago, terrytini said:

You sound thrilled. As thrilled as the minority at the game who did nothing but moan at the goals Conceeded.

And you did, you said our defence was crap. ( unless “ can’t defend” means “ I’m happy and our defence is pretty good”)

I do think our defence is crap. I never once said ‘we are crap’. As you suggested. 

I don’t expect you to recognise the difference though. 

[Thug]

Lol, I'm lost in who said what now.

I think we all agree - we're MILES better.

Our defence could be better.

January will be when we see the other part of new team in action - the recruitment side.

If that is anything like the playing side, we're in for a treat!

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, Thug said:

Our defence could be better.

 

I think that’s all anyone is saying mate. Apart from one poster who thinks our defence is fine. 

January could be massive for us. I’ve said before as long as we can keep within 10 points off top 2 by the time we replace our keeper we can still get automatic promotion. 

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Yes mate sorry it read wrong !

There will always be some who see the world how they want to, rather than how it is.

Thats a bit holier than thou, terry, not like you.

To hell with stats.....you only have to watch the last few games to see we have a problem.....whether thats confined to the last few games , we will see.

to concede 5 at home is not normal and the manner of conceding is concerning.

What Forest do or Blues is their business in terms of their conceding.....but Forest went through us like a knife through butter and we was left wanting.

The Boro game will indicate if its a blip or a possible mini -trend.

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats a bit holier than thou, terry, not like you.

To hell with stats.....you only have to watch the last few games to see we have a problem.....whether thats confined to the last few games , we will see.

to concede 5 at home is not normal and the manner of conceding is concerning.

What Forest do or Blues is their business in terms of their conceding.....but Forest went through us like a knife through butter and we was left wanting.

The Boro game will indicate if its a blip or a possible mini -trend.

 

It felt like villa had to work hard for their goals whilst forest would put 3 passes together and score.  I’m sure we will be a lot more compact against Boro when we do not have the ball. 

Anyway Albion and Derby have conceded a lot of goals recently as well so it’s fine  

Edited November 30, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think that’s all anyone is saying mate. Apart from one poster who thinks our defence is fine. 

January could be massive for us. I’ve said before as long as we can keep within 10 points off top 2 by the time we replace our keeper we can still get automatic promotion. 

You know what I signed out because this was a waste of time but I’m buggered if I’ll let you misrepresent me.

1. You have NOT just said “ our defence could be better” .....you said “ we can’t defend”.

2. I have not said everything is fine, I’ve said UNDER SMITH......UNDER SMITH......our defence stacks up to our rivals.

Have whatever opinions you like but don’t misrepresent me.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Thats a bit holier than thou, terry, not like you.

To hell with stats.....you only have to watch the last few games to see we have a problem.....whether thats confined to the last few games , we will see.

to concede 5 at home is not normal and the manner of conceding is concerning.

What Forest do or Blues is their business in terms of their conceding.....but Forest went through us like a knife through butter and we was left wanting.

The Boro game will indicate if its a blip or a possible mini -trend.

 

Sorry I make no apologies for stating a fact. Nothing holy about it.

” To hell with stats” ..........says it all really. This seems to be the in thing. If you don’t fancy some facts, ignore them.

I will be the first to say our defence is poor if we start conceding significantly more goals than others.

Im happy to comment on a poor performance in any one game.

But it’s you, not me, that’s ignoring the 3 clean sheets and the two other games where we Conceeded just 3 goals.

My point has simply been that ( again) sincecSmith took over our defence has stacked up.

Its even been said that only looking at Smiths time is daft...! On that basis, if we play 1/3 season under Manager 1, and conceed 100 goals, then 2/3 under Manager 2, and conceed None, wed go into our last game “ with a crap defence” because we have to count the time of the previous bloke. Plain nonsense.

You agree, do you not, that prior to last night our defence under Smith has been bettered by only 2 Clubs ? Oh, no, you don’t, because you want to ignore stats.

Yes, they went through us like a knife through butter. Does not mean our defence is crap, any more than them conceding 5 means theirs is. It poured with rain after the game, does that mine it rains all the time ?

You are right, upcoming games will show whether our defence is useless or not. I am very confident, based on what has actually happened since Smith joined, rather than on how I feel about last night, that those games will show our defence is no worse than most of our competitors.

 

 

[ciggiesnbeer]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think that’s all anyone is saying mate. Apart from one poster who thinks our defence is fine. 

January could be massive for us. I’ve said before as long as we can keep within 10 points off top 2 by the time we replace our keeper we can still get automatic promotion. 

If that was me, I have changed my mind  

I cant deny what we all saw against Forest.

[blandy]

Yeah. The way I see it is pre Smith we mostly all felt we had a squad that was full of attacking talent, but wasn’t coached in a way to unleash that talent and which was criminally weak at the back. What we’ve seen happen is the unleashing of the attacking talent to great effect, but that the weak defence remains. That’s pretty much it, for me. The mentality is reflective of that - try and score more than them, be confident you can get there. Keep attacking, keep scoring. It’s a joy to watch, but the need to get better defensively in terms of players and organisation is essential to turn us from fun to successful. 

[tinker]

6 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

MON is overrated. Forest funnel worked for a while then we lost players and couldn't sustain his ridiculous spending on past sell by date players and he left us in the lurch. Did the same at Sunderland and look where they're at 

I agree he wasn't perfect but this is with the luxury of hindsight. What MON did do well was build a good squad who could play the type of football he wanted us to play and yes he did this with backing . I haven't seen this since, other than the start of Lambert's reign. Who in recent history has done better than MON? 

[Guest av1]

Smith has been in the door 5 minutes and with a horribly unbalanced squad we are scoring more, conceding less (even after the 5 against Forest), playing a much more attractive football and the spirit in the squad is amazing. 

I'm all for constructive criticism but I'm really struggling to understand how anyone can find fault atm. 

[Junxs]

6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Who said that!! We were awful under Bruce in both defence and attack. I havent seen anyone say anything otherwise. I’ve just seen people say he left Smith a shit defence and keeper 

It was said.. about 5 pages back. Its why the whole debate started.

We conceded 4 goals in 6 games prior to Forest, who scored with every shot in a freak game. Our defence is not as bad as people making out is all that some of us are saying - and the stats prove it. However "stats dont count for shit" seems to be a popular counter argument for when people have an agenda, but then hapily use them to prove other stuff when it suits them. (this last part not aimed at you Vive-La-Villa)

[Guest av1]

I'm enjoying going to games again and I genuinely look forward to every game. Under Bruce it started to feel like a chore. 

Putting aside style of play/tactics and all that stuff (which has also improved), isn't that how football fans are meant to feel?

Smith has made me excited about the game again. 

[M_Afro]

Our defence is clearly not the best but half of the problem is that they get absolutely no protection from midfield. Most of the goals conceded were due to midfield failures before defensive ones.

For years we have needed a good defensive midfielder. We have purchased loads but none of them have been up to it. We are at our best defensively when Thor plays there but he is also not the answer. I wonder whether Smith thinks JDH could do a job there which is why he was on the bench the other day?

Anyway, I for one will rejoice when we finally solve this problem. It seems to have been around forever.

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

You know what I signed out because this was a waste of time but I’m buggered if I’ll let you misrepresent me.

1. You have NOT just said “ our defence could be better” .....you said “ we can’t defend”.

2. I have not said everything is fine, I’ve said UNDER SMITH......UNDER SMITH......our defence stacks up to our rivals.

Have whatever opinions you like but don’t misrepresent me.

But it doesn’t!!

Teri you are comparing our defence under Smith with our rivals during the same period. That makes no sense to me.  You need to compare it to how our rivals have been all season otherwise you are comparing our new start with a manager alongside rivals form over 7 games.  

That’s comparing defensive form so in that  respect your’re right. Our defensive form is similar to our rivals.  Is that what you mean?

If you take our defensive record under Smith  and compare it to our rivals over the season. It’s still worse than any team in the top 6. We score a lot so it’s probably good enough for playoffs. 

But If we still believe top 2 is achievable then it needs to be a lot better. 

By the way whenever I say we can’t defend I include our keeper in this. He is the biggest problem in all this in my opinion. Plus the lack of protection from midfield needs addressing.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[Vive_La_Villa]

12 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Our defence is clearly not the best but half of the problem is that they get absolutely no protection from midfield. Most of the goals conceded were due to midfield failures before defensive ones.

For years we have needed a good defensive midfielder. We have purchased loads but none of them have been up to it. We are at our best defensively when Thor plays there but he is also not the answer. I wonder whether Smith thinks JDH could do a job there which is why he was on the bench the other day?

Anyway, I for one will rejoice when we finally solve this problem. It seems to have been around forever.

This. A top defensive midfielder would help them so much. I’m pretty sure it’s in Smiths thoughts. It’s fundamental to how his team sets up to offer more protection.