Jesus Garcia Pitarch

[TRO]

3 hours ago, sne said:

Go back and look at  your post in the Steve Bruce thread (you have almost 2000 in that thread. I know because I counted them once but when I got to 1500 or so I gave up) and you'll see what people are reacting against.

So many points that are now brought up against Smith were dismissed and excused when it came to Bruce, but now they are valid and even crucial.

I don't even disagree with a lot of them, I just find the 180 amusing.

• Really, something even I could not be bothered to do.....No, I don't agree with you, I didn't agree with what some people were writing about at times....sometimes, I did and sometimes, I agreed with them.....I guess if I could see what people were reacting against, there wouldn't have been so many, responses.
• I like Dean, I just don't think he has a strong enough personality, for this level....sorry.
• Dean Smith will never have the level of criticism Steve Bruce had on here, don't even go there....He won't even have a cabbage on the way out, which I will be pleased about.
• If you find them amusing, its all part of the entertainment.

I would like to ask you one question?, would you like to swizz back through all my posts and see if I have spent so much time criticising or defending any other manager than Steve Bruce....No I have not criticised many even the Sherwoods, Gardes or McLeish's.....The reason, I have been involved in so many posts relating to Steve Bruce, is because, I disagreed with certain aspects of his stewardship that was being levelled at him......have another look through that 1500 or 2000 or what ever it is and tell me how many times , I actually praised him in any concentrated form to form an opinion that I was so proactive about his management.....No you won't, I just defended him in what I saw as many unjust comments.

In the case of Dean Smith, I have not seen the same level of criticism that I can disagree with, thats my view......If you go back to last season, the level of criticism of Smith was minimal or zero,  its expontenially increased with the poor results, that is understandable in my book and no conspiracy exists there , everyone to a man supported him, Bruce has never had that, he has always had a silent minority, even during the 24 wins......so when you see a 180 turn around in my opinions of both managers, maybe its something you want to see anyway....you looked for it and think you have found it ....Eureka !!!!

The fact of the matter is.....I much prefer the attempt of playing the style of football Dean wants, but I am aware unless you have that quality of player, its fancifuland too open to try it.......Steve on the other hand a bit more wily in his approach to the game, looks for results, plays cautiously and lets you down on the spectacle, depending on the spectators outlook......I see the good and not so good in both.

Edited July 2, 2020 by TRO

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

You don't read things properly do you, then go off on a tangent of answering what you think you have read.

Now read carefully what I am writing and don't twist it to suit your agenda.

Answer.........Do I want him back?  No........ and this is how I saw it tenure with us........I was never really excited in the first place, but respected the clubs decision and like all managers, inc Dean Smith, was prepared to give them a chance.

In the first place, I was relieved to see a haemorraging of goals cease, he stopped the rot and we finished 13th....The next season we won 24 games and just missed out on promotion by the odd goal, (also bringing in a player I thought, we was past attracting and in the face of much competition from other clubs) not a convincing performance by any stretch of the imagination and the fans were justifiably frustrated at missing out on promotion....That sent the club in to freefall, and exposed the fraud Dr whojar, Steve sadly lost both parents in close proximity and I think he lost the will for it all....all the loan players went back and we was left with bare bones, with a club no money to pay bills and an owner, who went in to self exile, leaving a young kid to runs things with just his handle on the language for salvation. steve was the boy with his finger in the dam.......He started the next season with some patched up team and once again a series of poor decisions engulfed us, by the time we got in to the season it was clear time was up, we was shadow of the team from last season and the football was putrid.....He had to go and I was glad the decision was made.

Oh sorry, I didn't answer why I defended him so much......Deep down, I didn't want to, because I didn't like his football style either.....It was simply so many unfair accusations made at him ( IMO) that I felt duty bound to call them out.....didn't make me right either, by the way.

There, does that explain very briefly my thoughts? on Steve Bruce.......so in order to continue your little agenda, you will have to come up with something else....all the best with your composing.

 

I stood alongside you whilst you did this TRO. I backed Bruce too. And it's what I'm doing again with Smith. 

[Keyblade]

38 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Really, something even I could not be bothered to do.....No, I don't agree with you, I didn't agree with what some people were writing about at times....sometimes, I did and sometimes, I agreed with them.....I guess if I could see what people were reacting against, there wouldn't have been so many.
• I like Dean, I just don't think he has a strong enough personality, for this level....sorry.
• Dean Smith will never have the level of criticism Steve Bruce had on here, don't even go there....He won't even have a cabbage on the way out, which I will be pleased about.
• If you find them amusing, its all part of the entertainment.

I would like to ask you one question?, would you like to swizz back through all my posts and see if I have spent so much time criticising or defending any other manager than Steve Bruce....No I have not criticised many even the Sherwoods, Gardes or McLeish's.....The reason, I have been involved in so many posts relating to Steve Bruce, is because, I disagreed with certain aspects of his stewardship that was being levelled at him......have another look through that 1500 or 2000 or what ever it is and tell me how many times , I actually praised him in any concentrated form to form an opinion that I was so proactive about his management.....No you won't, I just defended him in what I saw as many unjust comments.

In the case of Dean Smith, I have not seen the same level of criticism that I can disagree with, thats my view......If you go back to last season, the level of criticism of Smith was minimal or zero,  its expontenially increased with the poor results, that is understandable in my book and no conspiracy exists there , everyone to a man supported him, Bruce has never had that, he has always had a silent minority, even during the 24 wins......so when you see a 180 turn around in my opinions of both managers, maybe its something you want to see anyway....you looked for it and think you have found it ....Eureka !!!!

The fact of the matter is.....I much prefer the attempt of playing the style of football Dean wants, but I am aware unless you have that quality of player, its fancifuland too open to try it.......Steve on the other hand a bit more wily in his approach to the game, looks for results, plays cautiously and lets you down on the spectacle, depending on the spectators outlook......I see the good and not so good in both.

Unjust, like he should be sacked for failing to achieve promotion after 2 years with the most expensive squad in the league? I recall you having an issue with that. And yet, now that we have a poor squad in a harder league, you've suddenly become cutthroat and want the manager sacked, in your own words, from the 11th game of the season!

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Unjust, like he should be sacked for failing to achieve promotion after 2 years with the most expensive squad in the league? I recall you having an issue with that. And yet, now that we have a poor squad in a harder league, you've suddenly become cutthroat and want the manager sacked, in your own words, from the 11th game of the season!

a game we unluckily lost 2-1 to Liverpool, one of the only teams to give them a game in the 1st half of the season

Talk about elite standards

Edited July 2, 2020 by Zatman

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Unjust, like he should be sacked for failing to achieve promotion after 2 years with the most expensive squad in the league? I recall you having an issue with that. And yet, now that we have a poor squad in a harder league, you've suddenly become cutthroat and want the manager sacked, in your own words, from the 11th game of the season!

I still don't think he should have been sacked for just missing out and would say the same about Smith if Derby had of beat us....ditch "the most expensive squad in the league," i don't buy in to that.....and I am not cut throat, where have you dig that up from, been watching "Black Sails"....ridiculous comment.....harder league, yes....poor squad, unbalanced for sure and our results.could be signings, could be coaching, not entirely sure.....I think we started to faulter round about there, but never wanted him sacked then, don't remember saying that, but if i did, perhaps that was a bit harsh.....don't want him sacked now.....but running with these results and performances is not an option either for me.

it just amazes me how prickly you get presiding over these results.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by TRO

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I still don't think he should have been sacked for just missing out and would say the say about Smith if Derby had of beat us....ditch the most expensive squad in the league, i don't buy in to that.....and I am not cut throat, where have you dug that up from, been watching "Black Sails"....ridiculous comment.....harder league, yes....poor squad, unbalanced for sure and our results could be signing, could be coaching, not entirely sure.....I think we started to faulter round about there, but never wanted him sacked then, don't remember saying that, but if i did, perhaps that was a bit harsh.....don't want him sacked now.....but running with these results and performances is not an option either for me.

it just amazes me how prickly you get presiding over these results.

 

You said that right here, just 3 hours ago.

3 hours ago, TRO said:

who said that?

but judging by his present league position with his current club, maybe it had some creedence......Personally, after 11 games I made it clear on here, I wanted him gone.

perhaps there is someone else who you are referring?

If you can't see the stark discrepancy between how lenient you were on what was a clear failure at the time and how harsh you are now then I don't know what to tell you to be honest.

[villalad21]

50 minutes ago, Zatman said:

a game we unluckily lost 2-1 to Liverpool, one of the only teams to give them a game in the 1st half of the season

Talk about elite standards

Don't know about unlucky.

4-26 in shots

2-10 in corners

75 % possession to Liverpool

Was more due to poor finishing that Liverpool didn't win comfortably.

 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Don't know about unlucky.

4-26 in shots

2-10 in corners

75 % possession to Liverpool

Was more due to poor finishing that Liverpool didn't win comfortably.

 

I watched the game by sounds of it you didn't or conveniently ignoring what happened

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You said that right here, just 3 hours ago.

If you can't see the stark discrepancy between how lenient you were on what was a clear failure at the time and how harsh you are now then I don't know what to tell you to be honest.

I was talking about Steve Bruce, not Dean Smith.....11 games remember the cabbage.

I made reference of his current club, that was a clue.

you still don't get it do you.

• Dean Smith...I have criticised his performances and results directly
• Steve Bruce my posts consisted of defending him against what i considered as un fair comments...so was second party comment.

I rarely said anything proactively about steve Bruce, just answered other posters criticisms....maybe some of the faces he attracted, i might have been smitten with...Terry,Tammy, SJM

I have not seen the same unfair criticism of Smith to defend, but I would, if I thought it appropriate.

Edited July 2, 2020 by TRO

[cheltenham_villa]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

Really!!

Yes, how should we seperate his performances from Dean Smith's. Genuine question, what are the different targets for their respective roles or if one fails, do both fail.

(To clarify I'm not arguing that any success has been achieved, the team is shit, I know that)

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

Yes, how should we seperate his performances from Dean Smith's. Genuine question, what are the different targets for their respective roles or if one fails, do both fail.

(To clarify I'm not arguing that any success has been achieved, the team is shit, I know that)

I don't know enough about the detail, about their involvement in the transactions....I don't know if the deals were fait accompli for Dean....or if he was in cahoots with every signing.

Deans involvement makes a difference....if the players he was offered was not to his liking, he should have said so, otherwise his authority, comes in to question.

I have always felt the success or failure of a team is primarily down to the manager ,as i understand he has the authority to match the responsibility.....so his judgement is being appraised......if his authority is out of kilter, with his responsibility, then that poses a different argument.

sorry for sitting on the fence, but more information is required about their involvement to give a fair judgment.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

• Dean Smith will never have the level of criticism Steve Bruce had on here, don't even go there.

Probably not no because he isn't a huge Representative for Wellingborough.

Brucie of course never had the real life criticism at the ground he would have anyone who listens believe. Huge support from everyone 99.99% of the time despite the turgid football and whining at fans. McLeish and Lambert as two examples had a much rougher time of fan support despite both having to compete in the Premier League.

[cheltenham_villa]

On 02/07/2020 at 18:26, TRO said:

I don't know enough about the detail, about their involvement in the transactions....I don't know if the deals were fait accompli for Dean....or if he was in cahoots with every signing.

Deans involvement makes a difference....if the players he was offered was not to his liking, he should have said so, otherwise his authority, comes in to question.

I have always felt the success or failure of a team is primarily down to the manager ,as i understand he has the authority to match the responsibility.....so his judgement is being appraised......if his authority is out of kilter, with his responsibility, then that poses a different argument.

sorry for sitting on the fence, but more information is required about their involvement to give a fair judgment.

 

I favour single lines of accountability but at the same time I always felt it crazy that MON appeared to sign the player, negotiate the contract, etc. Why would you give an ex footballer that level of responsibility, surely others have more experience.

In this instance, like many others I'd like to know how transfers work. I assume it's a collective, I assume dean is heavily involved

[It's Your Round]

[sidcow]

[NSmith22]

I’m sure this has been mentioned but how often does La Liga dip into the English market? The answer is rarely if ever. Becks, Bale...? Has Suso ever been involved in a UK based signing for his previous spanish clubs? His knowledge of the leagues and transfer market was likely minimal before he came to Villa and we gave him the keys to the car. 

[Dave-R]

18 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

I favour single lines of accountability but at the same time I always felt it crazy that MON appeared to sign the player, negotiate the contract, etc. Why would you give an ex footballer that level of responsibility, surely others have more experience.

In this instance, like many others I'd like to know how transfers work. I assume it's a collective, I assume dean is heavily involved

All three, Smith, Purslow and Jesus must have heavy say on these transfers,they're all in a WhatsApp group together right in regards to signings, so they all obviously are bringing these players in.

I bet the truth wont come out though, I've a feeling the club will make someone fall guy in all of this even if there are more than one culprit.

 

[DCJonah]

On 02/07/2020 at 15:30, TRO said:

No feel free.

maybe my description was poor.....I was referring to centre backs in the main....no for sure we had some good players.

I still think a concerted effort to replace Jedinak and Whelan, with like for like type of player or better has been our achilles heel.

you do remember Steve Bruce nearly ruining Chester's career and sending Elphick out on loan to play jedinak at cb?

That was what Bruce wanted to do. 

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, NSmith22 said:

I’m sure this has been mentioned but how often does La Liga dip into the English market? The answer is rarely if ever. Becks, Bale...? Has Suso ever been involved in a UK based signing for his previous spanish clubs? His knowledge of the leagues and transfer market was likely minimal before he came to Villa and we gave him the keys to the car. 

I think as a group they will identify needs, here I think smith probably has the most input. 

For example he might identify that we need a winger with certain attributes. Suso and scouts will compile options and then i'd think as a group again they'd discuss who to go for and then suso and purslow are responsible for getting them over the line. 

I think Smith plays his part in this but i think most clubs operate now where the manager has the least amount of say when it comes to signings. And to be fair I want us to be like that. We can't buy one set of players for one style and rebuild the entire squad everytime we move on from one manager to another. 

 

[Laughable Chimp]

41 minutes ago, NSmith22 said:

I’m sure this has been mentioned but how often does La Liga dip into the English market? The answer is rarely if ever. Becks, Bale...? Has Suso ever been involved in a UK based signing for his previous spanish clubs? His knowledge of the leagues and transfer market was likely minimal before he came to Villa and we gave him the keys to the car. 

I think its because most English players would rather stay in England than move abroad and the mid-table Spanish clubs simply aren't able to offer enough to attract them. The obvious exception is when we're talking about the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid who are capable of attracting any player from any league both from their reputation and their finances.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Laughable Chimp