sne Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 32 minutes ago, hippo said: Luiz has buyback clause. Gilbert and certainly Trez - wouldn't show a profit should we sell them Imo. Luiz buyback clause to City is rumored to be £25m and will increase each season. Guilbert cost almost nothing so likely to make a profit there but I think he will stay even if we go down. Trez I can't see us getting our money back with unless he joins a oil state team. Likely to be a loan or very low fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Mjvilla said: The last time we went down? That was far worse than this. Ha ha......are we in to degree's of worse now. yes we went down winning 3 games......we have now won 7. It took us all that time and money to progress to 4 more wins. Maybe it is time to take the gloves off.....call failure for what it is, face up to it and set about reversing the trend.....it is only action that does things.....patience is just watching a clock.....patience only works, when incremental progress is in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Ha ha......are we in to degree's of worse now. yes we went down winning 3 games......we have now won 7. It took us all that time and money to progress to 4 more wins. Maybe it is time to take the gloves off.....call failure for what it is, face up to it and set about reversing the trend.....it is only action that does things.....patience is just watching a clock.....patience only works, when incremental progress is in action. Yet you've just highlighted the manager you want who, if it wasn't for patience, would've been sacked as a failure and probably not given a chance at prem league level again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted July 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2020 Spectacular 180 from when all our previous manager needed was more time and patience. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mjvilla said: Yet you've just highlighted the manager you want who, if it wasn't for patience, would've been sacked as a failure and probably not given a chance at prem league level again. Its all down to opinions and the criteria you use to show patience as the guiding light. i have mine like you have yours......I guess SAF was the best example, for you, but David Moyes and LVG was not as fortunate....how clubs opinions change. Hindsight is an exact science, Sean has had that due to patience,granted, (or a decision to continue with his work) and it has worked out for him and Burnley.....the burning question is, do we think the same will/ can happen to us...Dean hasn't had that long for us to find out, its a gamble. I am not privvy to what happens at BMH so I have no idea if his work is worth keeping or are we just treading water?.....I am not clear on that, so i can only form my opinion from results and performances,( and how players have developed since we bought them)...yes in that order.... There are tons of examples on both sides.....cut and run or patience.....both have reservations attached to them. There is one thing central to success, you have to make good decisions and over the last ,how many years ours have not been great, in many aspects of the club.....We have to accept, embrace that and work to reverse that trend.....How we do it is up for debate. but in my humble opinion, if we accept failure as ready as some of us do and turn to mitigation at every juncture, we are in for a long haul. I would also like to add too.....when we are in the championship, we stand out like a sore thumb...most other fans in their philosophical moment will agree as club, we are a epitome of failure, because we shouldn't be there....despite in terms of the football, we deserve to be. We are a team that have won the top european prize and we are struggling to win a game in this league.....we have to recognise that we are getting things wrong. Edited July 2, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 15 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said: I'm not really sure how were supposed to judge him. Assume the team goals were likely finish 17th or above, have a decent cup run, reduce the wage bill, comply with FFP, overhaul the youth team, find players that can be sold for a profit. Some of that is too early to say, some of it possibly on target. I'm not really sure whats expected to be honest. Really!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 15 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said: I'm not really sure how were supposed to judge him. Assume the team goals were likely finish 17th or above, have a decent cup run, reduce the wage bill, comply with FFP, overhaul the youth team, find players that can be sold for a profit. Some of that is too early to say, some of it possibly on target. I'm not really sure whats expected to be honest. Lost 19 games, 60 goals against, 3rd from bottom? Is that not sufficient? And our owners are not fools, they would not have been targeting 17th, they would have been targeting 10th-15th, and seeing 17th as too close for comfort. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tomaszk Posted July 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, sne said: Spectacular 180 from when all our previous manager needed was more time and patience. Not only that, but the previous manager had one of the best squads in the league. The current manager has one of the worst. The mental gymnastics is admirable. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, sne said: Spectacular 180 from when all our previous manager needed was more time and patience. who said that? but judging by his present league position with his current club, maybe it had some creedence......Personally, after 11 games I made it clear on here, I wanted him gone. perhaps there is someone else who you are referring? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Not only that, but the previous manager had one of the best squads in the league. The current manager has one of the worst. The mental gymnastics is admirable. I think you make things up in your head and then counter them as if someone has said it. The previous manager is sitting in 13th place having just scored 4 goals against a team who got the double over us....yeah, interesting isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Wilder also have one of the worst squads in the league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you make things up in your head and then counter them as if someone has said it. The previous manager is sitting in 13th place having just scored 4 goals against a team who got the double over us....yeah, interesting isn't it. So? How did he do for Aston Villa? Ah yes, terribly, but you defended him month after month. Do you want him back? Now you go at Smith constantly despite him getting promoted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 hours ago, AvfcTheObsession said: How have you come to the conclusion they've 'gone for it' this year when they've done the same as they always do, spend the majority of what they bring in, but always have a negative net spend. They sold more star players last summer so had to spend more to replace them, but they did what they always do, brought in more than they spent, the exact same thing they did in 17/18 when Smith was there. negative net spend summer just gone: £8m. 18/19 had a bigger negative net spend £25.5m. 17/18 negative net spend £8.5m. They spent money on 8 players last summer, only 2 of them older than 23, Jansson was the main exception to the usual young players from abroad policy. There has been a slight change in policy in signing some others from bigger clubs, but it was still mixed with signings from Barnsley, Sparta, Piast Gliwice, Blackburn, Troyes. They've gone for it because they spent more than they've ever spent. They set a new transfer record seven times. They spent 85% of everything they brought in when they usually don't. Fees paid Fees received Net spend % of income spent 2016/17 4.63 12.96 -8.33 35.73 2017/18 5.4 13.65 -8.25 39.56 2018/19 5.9 31.46 -25.56 18.75 2019/20 31.5 36.63 -5.13 86.00 It's OK to just say you want Smith sacked. You don't have to go backwards and find issues with things he's done before. Frank looks a good coach to me but he's clearly got a better set of players to work with. I love that he knows how to play more than one formation, I wish Smith did. Unlike Aston Villa, Brentford don't buy bad players for their manager to try and form a team out of, they buy good ones who improve the side straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 hours ago, hippo said: Luiz has buyback clause. Gilbert and certainly Trez - wouldn't show a profit should we sell them Time will tell, but if we sell them for less, were idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Time will tell, but if we sell them for less, were idiots. Uh oh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: So? How did he do for Aston Villa? Ah yes, terribly, but you defended him month after month. Do you want him back? Now you go at Smith constantly despite him getting promoted. You don't read things properly do you, then go off on a tangent of answering what you think you have read. Now read carefully what I am writing and don't twist it to suit your agenda. Answer.........Do I want him back? No........ and this is how I saw it tenure with us........I was never really excited in the first place, but respected the clubs decision and like all managers, inc Dean Smith, was prepared to give them a chance. In the first place, I was relieved to see a haemorraging of goals cease, he stopped the rot and we finished 13th....The next season we won 24 games and just missed out on promotion by the odd goal, (also bringing in a player I thought, we was past attracting and in the face of much competition from other clubs) not a convincing performance by any stretch of the imagination and the fans were justifiably frustrated at missing out on promotion....That sent the club in to freefall, and exposed the fraud Dr whojar, Steve sadly lost both parents in close proximity and I think he lost the will for it all....all the loan players went back and we was left with bare bones, with a club no money to pay bills and an owner, who went in to self exile, leaving a young kid to runs things with just his handle on the language for salvation. steve was the boy with his finger in the dam.......He started the next season with some patched up team and once again a series of poor decisions engulfed us, by the time we got in to the season it was clear time was up, we was shadow of the team from last season and the football was putrid.....He had to go and I was glad the decision was made. Oh sorry, I didn't answer why I defended him so much......Deep down, I didn't want to, because I didn't like his football style either.....It was simply so many unfair accusations made at him ( IMO) that I felt duty bound to call them out.....didn't make me right either, by the way. There, does that explain very briefly my thoughts? on Steve Bruce.......so in order to continue your little agenda, you will have to come up with something else....all the best with your composing. Edited July 2, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 35 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you make things up in your head and then counter them as if someone has said it. The previous manager is sitting in 13th place having just scored 4 goals against a team who got the double over us....yeah, interesting isn't it. the previous cabbage who couldnt beat Villa this season. His performance at Villa Park was the worst all season at the ground He has done OK at Newcastle but flopped at Villa yet you wanted give him as much time as possible yet the manager who cleaned his mess you want out soon. Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, TRO said: who said that? but judging by his present league position with his current club, maybe it had some creedence......Personally, after 11 games I made it clear on here, I wanted him gone. perhaps there is someone else who you are referring? Go back and look at your post in the Steve Bruce thread (you have almost 2000 in that thread. I know because I counted them once but when I got to 1500 or so I gave up) and you'll see what people are reacting against. So many points that are now brought up against Smith were dismissed and excused when it came to Bruce, but now they are valid and even crucial. I don't even disagree with a lot of them, I just find the 180 amusing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, TRO said: He started the next season with some patched up team and once again a series of poor decisions engulfed us, by the time we got in to the season it was clear time was up, we was shadow of the team from last season and the football was putrid.....He had to go and I was glad the decision was made. Sorry to wade in, but was this the patched up team that included Grealish, Abraham, Tuanzebe, Hourihane, McGinn, etc. that went on to gain promotion that same season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Sorry to wade in, but was this the patched up team that included Grealish, Abraham, Tuanzebe, Hourihane, McGinn, etc. that went on to gain promotion that same season? No feel free. maybe my description was poor.....I was referring to centre backs in the main....no for sure we had some good players. I still think a concerted effort to replace Jedinak and Whelan, with like for like type of player or better has been our achilles heel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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