Jesus Garcia Pitarch

[ferguson1]

We clearly identified/wanted some very good players in the summer. Unfortunately, we were either outbid or priced out of moves for Maupay, Phillips, Benrahma, Webster etc. No doubt we would have also been all over moves for Abraham and Tuanzebe, but were told they weren't for sale. 

Perhaps then our second and third choice options were where we have fallen down? 

[Risso]

9 hours ago, KentVillan said:

In a couple of years, £30m will be the going rate for a Championship striker. Wesley has been poor, but he'll still do a job for someone in an easier league.

I can't see him scoring goals in the Championship either to be honest.  He's got no pace, no real skill to beat a man, is crap in the air and hardly ever gets in to goalscoring positions.  We'll see next year though, I suppose.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Risso

[Risso]

12 minutes ago, ferguson1 said:

We clearly identified/wanted some very good players in the summer. Unfortunately, we were either outbid or priced out of moves for Maupay, Phillips, Benrahma, Webster etc. No doubt we would have also been all over moves for Abraham and Tuanzebe, but were told they weren't for sale. 

Perhaps then our second and third choice options were where we have fallen down? 

This is what I don't understand.  They weren't prepared to pay the fee for Maupay, but then go and buy Wesley for £22m.  Utter, utter madness.  Pitarch should be the first one out of the door to be honest for what is now clearly a disastrous transfer window.  £60m+ on new defenders, to then concede two goals a game.

[briny_ear]

23 minutes ago, sidcow said:

There is nothing wrong with the strategy. It's the right strategy. It's that we've identified and bought the wrong players is the problem. 

That really was the point I was trying to make, although one or two posters seem to have been arguing against a different version that they have made up for themselves.
 

The first priority is to create a viable team. Everything else flows from that, including the ability to increase the value of players we have bought and sell them at a beneficial price. 
 

If you buy an ill-matched set of players who can’t play effectively together, solely on the basis of some theoretical investment value, nobody benefits, not the club, not the players, not the fans.

[Risso]

11 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

That really was the point I was trying to make, although one or two posters seem to have been arguing against a different version that they have made up for themselves.
 

The first priority is to create a viable team. Everything else flows from that, including the ability to increase the value of players we have bought and sell them at a beneficial price. 
 

If you buy an ill-matched set of players who can’t play effectively together, solely on the basis of some theoretical investment value, nobody benefits, not the club, not the players, not the fans.

I think Lerner tried to do the same thing in his last year with Veretout and Gueye etc, and look what happened then.  Things aren't that bad of course, but it's going to end with the same result.

[Dr_Pangloss]

56 minutes ago, sidcow said:

There is nothing wrong with the strategy. It's the right strategy. It's that we've identified and bought the wrong players is the problem. 

A lot of this is on Pitarch though. 

I must admit, I'm not impressed so far. The £30m+ on Wesley and Trezeguet alone was a complete waste. Probably our best summer signing is Engels and Smith said he was monitoring him at Brentford. So it looks to me that most of the lemons we have signed were Pitarch recommendations.

[Risso]

Very roughly, my guess would be Engels/Targett/Jota are mainly Smith signings, whereas Wesley, Trezeguet, Luiz and Nakamba are Pitarch ones.

[lexicon]

20 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

A lot of this is on Pitarch though. 

I must admit, I'm not impressed so far. The £30m+ on Wesley and Trezeguet alone was a complete waste. Probably our best summer signing is Engels and Smith said he was monitoring him at Brentford. So it looks to me that most of the lemons we have signed were Pitarch recommendations.

I wouldn't say that any signings can be classed as 'lemons' yet - too early. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Just now, lexicon said:

I wouldn't say that any signings can be classed as 'lemons' yet - too early. 

Trezeguet to me is just an appalling player, happy to write that one off. Wesley has more to him but is on borrowed time.

[lexicon]

3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Trezeguet to me is just an appalling player, happy to write that one off. Wesley has more to him but is on borrowed time.

I think you're being harsh on him and I think he's offering more than El Ghazi is at the moment. He's hit and miss but he doesn't hide or shirk work  - I can put the inconsistency down to settling into a new league for now. 

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Trezeguet to me is just an appalling player, happy to write that one off. Wesley has more to him but is on borrowed time.

I'd probably have it the other way round tbh. They're both nowhere near good enough though. 

[KentVillan]

3 hours ago, Risso said:

I can't see him scoring goals in the Championship either to be honest.  He's got no pace, no real skill to beat a man, is crap in the air and hardly ever gets in to goalscoring positions.  We'll see next year though, I suppose.

The Belgian league is supposedly a higher standard than the Championship, so if he can score 1 in 3 there and win young player of the year, he can probably do it in the Championship. I hope we don't have to find out of course.

3 hours ago, briny_ear said:

That really was the point I was trying to make, although one or two posters seem to have been arguing against a different version that they have made up for themselves.

Give it a rest, drama queen.

[Laughable Chimp]

4 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I am sure he knows what he's doing even if some of the buys he may have suggested haven't flourished yet, BUT I dare ask the question whether we need more British grafters to hit the ground running, rather than potential from Europe. I fully understand and support the idea of buying young, but surely there's for instance a good "British" championship striker that can take the step up and help us? 

Ah yes, our season's version of Rudy Gestede? Actually you know what, I think I'm happy we passed on that option.

Just joking lol. I agree with you.

 

[Delphinho123]

21 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The Belgian league is supposedly a higher standard than the Championship, so if he can score 1 in 3 there and win young player of the year, he can probably do it in the Championship. I hope we don't have to find out of course.

Give it a rest, drama queen.

We will if Wesley is still in the side after the January transfer window. Pound for pound the worst signing of my lifetime. 

[Humanoid]

5 hours ago, M_Afro said:

It is the most sensible and sustainable model. In a few years, when this season’s recruits have fully bedded in, we will really be reaping the benefits. Anything worth having takes time to achieve. We have suffered from years and years of short term quick fixes. It will take some patience from the supporters but I really think it will be worthwhile.

It's the same model as 2015-16.  Those recruits back then wanted out when Villa were relegated.  What makes you so sure that the current recruits will want to stay if Villa are relagated this season?  There'll be a lot of clubs after them.  Then there are senior players like Jack, McGinn, Heaton, who'll want to be playing at the highest level they can, they won't have any interest in playing in the Championship. 

[zab6359]

3 hours ago, Risso said:

Very roughly, my guess would be Engels/Targett/Jota are mainly Smith signings, whereas Wesley, Trezeguet, Luiz and Nakamba are Pitarch ones.

I'd say Smith got it right with Engels and Pitarch got it right with Nakamba so pretty even stevens really?

[M_Afro]

42 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

It's the same model as 2015-16.  Those recruits back then wanted out when Villa were relegated.  What makes you so sure that the current recruits will want to stay if Villa are relagated this season?  There'll be a lot of clubs after them.  Then there are senior players like Jack, McGinn, Heaton, who'll want to be playing at the highest level they can, they won't have any interest in playing in the Championship. 

We are in a different position now. We no longer have to sell our players. Jack would almost certainly go. As would Mings. After that I could see them staying to help get us promoted. If we do sell players, it will be on our terms.

[Laughable Chimp]

7 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

We are in a different position now. We no longer have to sell our players. Jack would almost certainly go. As would Mings. After that I could see them staying to help get us promoted. If we do sell players, it will be on our terms.

Did we have to sell our players back then? This was back when Xia first purchased the club and was pumping lots of money into it I think, before the money dried up. I don't think we were forced to sell our players back then either, we just did so anyway for whatever reason.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[wazzap24]

We signed good players. They are still good players. 

Some won’t work out in the long term, but that’s to be expected - no club has a 100% success rate.

We need a bit more quality and a bit more experience, then we’ll be fine IMO. A winger and a forward would be enough to see us right. 

Suso and the scouting team have done a good job so far. 

[M_Afro]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Did we have to sell our players back then? This was back when Xia first purchased the club and was pumping lots of money into it I think, before the money dried up. I don't think we were forced to sell our players back then either, we just did so anyway for whatever reason.

They were on high wages and to be honest they were not exactly saleable assets. That’s not true now. If we sold Jack and Ty we would bank over £100m. Also our new owners make Dr X look like a corner shop owner in every possible way!