ciggiesnbeer Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Looking for advice! I am looking to return to the UK in a year or so (I can move anywhere but looking at Oxford), I am a single issue voter. Rejoining the EU. I will be donating and voting (although I am too old and lazy to be canvassing) I am an ex Labour voter now Labour and the Conservatives have doubled down on the "lets make Brexit work and forget about the peace and prosperity we enjoyed in the EU" routine. LIb/Dems are the only national party that is guaranteeing a new referendum on rejoining the EU right? I am curious just how badly organized and what is the trajectory of the Lib Dems in the UK? Irrelevant / growing? shrinking? I am looking at options so for example as rejoining the EU is the only issue I will vote on should I for example instead move to Edinburgh and donate & vote SNP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2022 The Lib Dems are irrelevant. They are the party of meek Tories, who sold their soul to the devil in the Coalition government and got absolutely hammered as a result, turning from a distant 3rd place party to a near total irrelevance from parliament. Their Brexit position is purely trying to latch on to 'a thing' to attract a voter base of some sort. Given a sniff of power they'd drop it in a second. Not that they'd have much choice as they'd always be the weak party in a coalition with the Tories and the Tories will not back down on Brexit. They won't go into coalition with Labour. You'd be better off eating your ballot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Chindie said: Their Brexit position is purely trying to latch on to 'a thing' to attract a voter base of some sort. I don’t think that bit is at all true. They’ve always been steadfastly pro the EU and UK membership of it, whether that was popular or unpopular at whatever time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2022 I disagree. They might have historically been pretty Europhile, but their making it they're tentpole policy is basically marketing IMO. But you disagree, so fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, Chindie said: they're tentpole policy is basically marketing IMO Aren’t all policies essentially marketing for any party? I mean offering lower taxes or higher spending on the NHS, or more green energy or Independence for Wales or Scotland or whichever. It’s all “vote for us because we’ll do this nice thing you like”. Some of those examples are long held core beliefs of course of the SNP or whoever, but then the same, I think, applies to the LDs and yurp. It’s one of the limited number of areas where they’ve been consistent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Aren’t all policies essentially marketing for any party? I mean offering lower taxes or higher spending on the NHS, or more green energy or Independence for Wales or Scotland or whichever. It’s all “vote for us because we’ll do this nice thing you like”. Some of those examples are long held core beliefs of course of the SNP or whoever, but then the same, I think, applies to the LDs and yurp. It’s one of the limited number of areas where they’ve been consistent. Yes. I simply would argue that it's only in the fallout of Brexit and it's 'resolution' they've decided to try to make being pro-Europe part of their identity. Think of the classic images of the parties - Labour, classically viewed as a big state, tax spending, social supporting party, Tories, classically small state, support business and profits (i.e. the rich), want to cut tax. Lib Dems... you'd never, ever describe then as a pro-Europe party, even if historically they have been. They now are trying to pitch themselves as that, I would argue because they think it'll give them a chance to hoover up middle class Remainers from either side when they need support. But the thing is, this is different to other 'manifesto' pitch policies, as they're trying to identify as a particular big issue thing that defines them rather than the usual deck chair shuffling on the Titanic most parties do, where they essentially move a few quid around within their priorities to whatever demographic is most likely to vote for them. But because they aren't going to be in the position to implement that big issue, with the best will in the world, it's an incredibly cynical grasp at winning a niche ground of support that has absolutely no weight behind it at all. So I view it as very different. And **** pathetic. But they are piss Tories, so what do we expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 People who lived in Sutton Coldfield where the Tories always got a shoo-in, and who were revolted by the thuggery of the left, tended to vote Liberal as it seemed the least dusgusting choice. The Trots always described the Liberals' moderation as demonstrating their lack of principle; i.e. they would be squeamish about shooting their class enemies. The comedians just said, "I'll be buggered if I joined the Liberal Party!", referencing the Jeremy Thorpe thing. I always saw them as somewhere between the Tories and Labour but without the hate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Chindie said: Lib Dems... you'd never, ever describe then as a pro-Europe party, even if historically they have been. They now are trying to pitch themselves as that There's a very simple reason for this: before 2015, it has been completely irrelevant for decades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 If Labour could just move to the Centre we could just vote Labour. No need for the Lib Dems. If Labour stay too far to the left people view Lib Dems as a coalition partner to bring the Government to the centre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2022 IIRC David Steel many years ago made a point of how European the LibDems were by standing as a candidate in the EU elections in Italy? He knew he didn't stand a chance but he was doing it to make a particular pro-Eu point iirc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) Much derided but may play a role in the next election if they retake some of their old seats they lost to the Tories. You could call them sell outs, or naive, but they got absolutely shafted after the coalition. There is no way that they will ever work formally with the Tories again so some sort of lib-lab deal may be required after the next election. The failure of the progressive parties working together in Britain is one reason why the Tories are in power for about two thirds of the time. Ed Davey is ok but a sort of duller version of Starmer. Charles Kennedy was the last decent leader for them but sadly had his demons. The libdems have always been the most European party but they were often toned this down in tory targeted seats they wanted to take in the 90s and 00s. That is a fair accusation that they were often just a protest vote. I think Brexit/vote for rejoining the EU is a long, long, way off. I doubt Labour would touch that with a barge pole. Maybe rejoining the common market. Edited September 27, 2022 by The Fun Factory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: may play a role in the next election if they retake some of their old seats they lost to the Tories I think for Labour to win that has to happen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: That is a fair accusation that they were often just a protest vote. There's a reason for that. I reckon that less than 5% of the population and probably only about 50% of the LibDem membership, actually know what the word Liberal actually means in terms of a political philosophy Most of the country don't even know it is an ideology 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 5 hours ago, Chindie said: The Lib Dems are irrelevant. They are the party of meek Tories, who sold their soul to the devil in the Coalition government and got absolutely hammered as a result, turning from a distant 3rd place party to a near total irrelevance from parliament. Their Brexit position is purely trying to latch on to 'a thing' to attract a voter base of some sort. Given a sniff of power they'd drop it in a second. Not that they'd have much choice as they'd always be the weak party in a coalition with the Tories and the Tories will not back down on Brexit. They won't go into coalition with Labour. You'd be better off eating your ballot. Id say they are pretty relevant as alot of people hate the tories and wont vote labour. They are the third largest party and people might be tempted to vote for them. Also if its a hung parliament they will have a vital role in deciding what happens next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Some of their old seats like Cheltenham they will surely take back. It doesn't feel like a tory town. They used to be strong in the south west, back to the old days of the non establishment 'celtic fringe' churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Ed Davey is ok but a sort of duller version of Starmer. Is that even possible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, bickster said: There's a reason for that. I reckon that less than 5% of the population and probably only about 50% of the LibDem membership, actually know what the word Liberal actually means in terms of a political philosophy Most of the country don't even know it is an ideology Which is quite ironic as UK society as never been as socially liberal as now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted September 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Id say they are pretty relevant as alot of people hate the tories and wont vote labour. They are the third largest party and people might be tempted to vote for them. Also if its a hung parliament they will have a vital role in deciding what happens next They're the 4th largest party. The SNP has 3 times as many seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2022 35 minutes ago, Chindie said: They're the 4th largest party. The SNP has 3 times as many seats. In terms of seats yes, but votes cast for them LDs are (obviously) third, as they don’t limit themselves to only standing in Scotland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 54 minutes ago, Chindie said: They're the 4th largest party. The SNP has 3 times as many seats. The Libdems had 2.4 million more votes than the SNP in the last general election, or 11.6% of the total vote to 3.9% of the SNP. Basically Scotland is small. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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