Tammy Abraham

[Demitri_C]

11 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

You misunderstood me. You wouldn't describe him as a big white bloke at all. If he was white, you wouldn't even mention it. Maybe there are very *rare* occasions when somebody might, obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but that is why it is a trope. As is the conjured up image of a 'big black bloke'. It invokes certain things. 

Race is anything that defines or groups people, often for the purposes of prejudice.

"No dogs, no blacks, no Irish" 

So let's say your just getting mugged police officer asks you is suspect white or black is that  racist? For me it's a way it's just describing someone. 

I'm proud white person it don't offend me if someone describes me as white. Just like the same to any black or skin colour. I just think it's getting abit too sensitive now and we always have to watch what we say. 

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So let's say your just getting mugged police officer asks you is suspect white or black is that  racist? For me it's a way it's just describing someone. 

Correct. No it is not. There is a difference between describing somebody and defining them by it. In the example we are discussing here the grandson asked "who was Tammy Abraham", not "what did Tammy Abraham look like". Nobody is saying it is the most egregious thing in the world, only that it has an effect. All the little things add up to what we know as the racist society we live in.

Quote

I'm proud white person it don't offend me if someone describes me as white. Just like the same to any black or skin colour. I just think it's getting abit too sensitive now and we always have to watch what we say. 

Being proud of being white is bizarre asf but leaving that aside, you're not oppressed because of it. So you have no dog in this fight. 

Watching what you say because of the impact is might have is called empathy. It's a good thing. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by dont_do_it_doug.

[Demitri_C]

8 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Correct. No it is not. There is a difference between describing somebody and defining them by it. In the example we are discussing here the grandson asked "who was Tammy Abraham", not "what did Tammy Abraham look like". Nobody is saying it is the most egregious thing in the world, only that it has an effect. All the little things add up to what we know as the racist society we live in.

Being proud of being white is bizarre asf but leaving that aside, you're not oppressed because of it. So you have no dog in this fight. 

Watching what you say because of the impact is might have is called empathy. It's a good thing. 

Thanks for clarifying your point. 

With regards to the proud to be white maybe I didn't explain myself properly I meant I'm a white man I'm proud of who I am and where I came from - just the amae as othe races. I am no better or less than anyone else. That's what I was trying to get at. 

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Tammy Abraham is a really good striker.

[Wezbid]

16 minutes ago, DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth said:

Tammy Abraham is a really good striker.

Yes, but what does he look like? 

[AvfcRigo82]

3 minutes ago, Wezbid said:

Yes, but what does he look like? 

A prolific goalscorer.

[CosmicVillan]

8 minutes ago, Wezbid said:

Yes, but what does he look like? 

A winner

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Being proud of being white is bizarre asf but leaving that aside, you're not oppressed because of it. So you have no dog in this fight. 

This totally belongs in off topic, but are you saying black people are oppressed? Historically a lot of groups have been stigmatized, and black people are a part of that, but in 2019? I'd argue one of the more stigmatized groups in 2019 are middle aged white men, but that's me. I rarely comment on anything any where except here on VT, but according to half of what I read men of my socio ethnic group and financial position are the source of most bad stuff around. Which is an interesting point of view if anything. If black people are oppressed in England I really must have missed a whole lot. 

Personally I think the society in general has gotten so flakey it's comical. I genuinly wonder how people survive when they are offended by everything around them. And even if you get offended, how is that problematic? Just accept it and move on.

In terms of this song however I think it's not funny, nor especially catchy for that matter,  and they should have realized that. 

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

This totally belongs in off topic, but are you saying black people are oppressed? Historically a lot of groups have been stigmatized, and black people are a part of that, but in 2019? I'd argue one of the more stigmatized groups in 2019 are middle aged white men, but that's me. I rarely comment on anything any where except here on VT, but according to half of what I read men of my socio ethnic group and financial position are the source of most bad stuff around. Which is an interesting point of view if anything. If black people are oppressed in England I really must have missed a whole lot. 

Personally I think the society in general has gotten so flakey it's comical. I genuinly wonder how people survive when they are offended by everything around them. And even if you get offended, how is that problematic? Just accept it and move on.

Wow

[Designer1]

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Wow

Yeah I'm constantly stigmatized. Can barely walk down the road for it these days...

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

2 hours ago, Wezbid said:

Yes, but what does he look like? 

Whatever he wants to look like if he bags a couple tonight.

[KenjiOgiwara]

I hope he is clinical tonight. Would be great to get 4 more goals this season and have a striker with 30 league goals

[Lerner's Driver]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Wow

Yeah, explains just how uncritical the consumers of our modern media actually are. Hook, line and sinker comes to mind and Nigey boy, with his inflammatory talk and simplistic non-solutions, is the big winner.

[KentVillan]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

This totally belongs in off topic, but are you saying black people are oppressed? Historically a lot of groups have been stigmatized, and black people are a part of that, but in 2019? I'd argue one of the more stigmatized groups in 2019 are middle aged white men, but that's me. I rarely comment on anything any where except here on VT, but according to half of what I read men of my socio ethnic group and financial position are the source of most bad stuff around. Which is an interesting point of view if anything. If black people are oppressed in England I really must have missed a whole lot. 

Personally I think the society in general has gotten so flakey it's comical. I genuinly wonder how people survive when they are offended by everything around them. And even if you get offended, how is that problematic? Just accept it and move on.

In terms of this song however I think it's not funny, nor especially catchy for that matter,  and they should have realized that. 

I don't see anyone being "flakey" here. I assume everybody agrees that you can't just chant whatever you want in a football stadium - otherwise we'd support the right to make monkey noises. So given that everybody has a threshold of what's acceptable, we're just arguing over what that threshold is.

Most of us think this song is crass and unnecessary. It's not about being a precious little snowflake. Doubt Tammy will lose any sleep over it, but he deserves respect from us.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Can't see anyone have claimed people in this thread to be flakey either to be fair. And from what I can see everyone agrees it was poor taste. 

[GeordieVillan]

Very interesting reading some of the comments on here, from what seems like a bunch of decent people trying to navigate a minefield without appearing to be offensive or a snowflake...I had a few thoughts -

1) I wonder why someone has decided to video this? Are they doing so because they think its a brilliant chant? Or because they think it might be racist/offensive and they are wanting to highlight it either because they are proud of those doing the singing or or to try shame them?

2) I'd love to ask those involved if they would happily start singing this song in the stadium with a full house? If not, then I think that shows they know they shouldn't be singing it and it causes offence. If yes, then I would say its a serious misjudgement of the current climate.

3) What will Tammy think of all this if/when he sees it. This is a guy that we are all desperate to stay at Villa, but imagine if something like this became a factor in his decision to stay with us or not. How would those involved feel then? Even more than that, its not impossible that others players in the squad could be offended by it.

I'm a person of colour (British Asian), but I identify myself as a Geordie because I've been born and raised in Newcastle. I can personally say that if this was an Asian player and there was a song which revolved around the player being called "brown", then I would definitely be uncomfortable, regardless of the motives of those singing the song. 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Yeah, explains just how uncritical the consumers of our modern media actually are. Hook, line and sinker comes to mind and Nigey boy, with his inflammatory talk and simplistic non-solutions, is the big winner.

No you don't understand mate, all these ethnic minorities have it so easy compared to affluent white men - they're the ones who really suffer in today's world. They can't even be racist anymore without anyone saying anything! 

[praisedmambo]

48 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

Very interesting reading some of the comments on here, from what seems like a bunch of decent people trying to navigate a minefield without appearing to be offensive or a snowflake...I had a few thoughts -

1) I wonder why someone has decided to video this? Are they doing so because they think its a brilliant chant? Or because they think it might be racist/offensive and they are wanting to highlight it either because they are proud of those doing the singing or or to try shame them?

2) I'd love to ask those involved if they would happily start singing this song in the stadium with a full house? If not, then I think that shows they know they shouldn't be singing it and it causes offence. If yes, then I would say its a serious misjudgement of the current climate.

3) What will Tammy think of all this if/when he sees it. This is a guy that we are all desperate to stay at Villa, but imagine if something like this became a factor in his decision to stay with us or not. How would those involved feel then? Even more than that, its not impossible that others players in the squad could be offended by it.

I'm a person of colour (British Asian), but I identify myself as a Geordie because I've been born and raised in Newcastle. I can personally say that if this was an Asian player and there was a song which revolved around the player being called "brown", then I would definitely be uncomfortable, regardless of the motives of those singing the song. 

No way on earth they would sing it if he was in the room either.

Edited May 14, 2019 by praisedmambo

[KenjiOgiwara]

45 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

I'm a person of colour (British Asian), but I identify myself as a Geordie because I've been born and raised in Newcastle. 

This is probably the most interesting thing I've read in this thread. How come you ended up as a Villa fan? I just happen to know a few Geordies, migrated from Newcastle to Oslo in the 70-80s and they are some of the most fiercely loyal fanatic people of any football club I've ever met. 

[hippo]

Seem to remember a single was released about Paul Mcgra - it was in the late 90's - in the single he was adoringly referred to as the 'Black Pearl' - don't recall the single being banned or anything like that - in fact if featured on BBC news.