sharkyvilla Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, DJ_Villain said: The chant could always be ‘Tam-Tammy Abraham’... but to emphasise the idea he is a black man is just asking for trouble and always going to cause a stir... No, it isn’t meant to cause offence and yes, he is black... but it’s the principle of it... especially considering there has been a great deal of racism directed at footballers in the past few months anyway... So many other ways to fill a single syllable of a chant without having to bring the colour of someone’s skin into it I don't know, I think even if they changed the word 'black' to something else, just the link to the original song would be enough to cause offence nowadays, rightly or wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I used to work for a local authority, who have a 'black workers group' - your average black council worker hated them. Creating issues when there werent any. To my mind over compensating for race causes as many problems as racism itself. Its singing the praises of a player who has scored over 25 goals us - he is black - the song celebrates that.....if TA comes out and says he doesnt like it ...it ends... Big fat ron One nosey parker (gary parker) Gladstone small (not one of ours) All derogatory chants, but done in a way in my opinion that promotes togetherness - and accepts peoples differences All IMO of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I’ve seen a lot of people saying that the problem is that Tammy is being referred to as black, because British fans would never do that to a white player. But didn’t Rooney have a chant where he was called the ‘white Pele’? I might be wrong, but I don’t recall there being this debate when Rooney at United. I don’t know why the people in the video sang it, but I would like to think that someone (probably with a few beers in them) just thought “Hey, that song that goes ‘woah black betty bamalam’ fits really well with Tammy Abraham if you replace the last two words with his name! And the ‘black’ part fits because he’s a black man”. Then the song started. No malice, and probably no thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I’ve seen a lot of people saying that the problem is that Tammy is being referred to as black, because British fans would never do that to a white player. But didn’t Rooney have a chant where he was called the ‘white Pele’? I might be wrong, but I don’t recall there being this debate when Rooney at United. I don’t know why the people in the video sang it, but I would like to think that someone (probably with a few beers in them) just thought “Hey, that song that goes ‘woah black betty bamalam’ fits really well with Tammy Abraham if you replace the last two words with his name! And the ‘black’ part fits because he’s a black man”. Then the song started. No malice, and probably no thought. Obviously But them being vile racists is much more of a story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Should we ban the original song altogether? Was Betty black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Should we ban the original song altogether? Was Betty black? Black Betty was a gun. Honestly the number of people who can't see an issue with calling a black player "Black Tammy" is worrying. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 That chant should never have happened. Some say that people are over reactive or just fishing for their chance to be outraged, but even in its most positive spin, it is poorly thought through. There is so much more to Tammy than his skin colour, which fails to define the man he is. Yes, he is black, but he is a hard working effective striker for Villa, and seems to be a lovely guy to boot. To focus on his skin colour, as this chant does, it detracts and takes the focus off the positives we know, and those we are yet to know about Tammy Abraham. Tammy should be celebrated, but not like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Whose that comedian...who is also a cook...wears a turban....I went to see him once....he opened with "A lot of brown people in tonight" ...and proceeded to laugh and joke about the ways of the indian culture....I dont think a single person was offended all night. IMO thats the way to beat racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, hippo said: Whose that comedian...who is also a cook...wears a turban....I went to see him once....he opened with "A lot of brown people in tonight" ...and proceeded to laugh and joke about the ways of the indian culture....I dont think a single person was offended all night. IMO thats the way to beat racism. It's a bit different if it's a bunch of white blokes though, isn't it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's a bit different if it's a bunch of white blokes though, isn't it? Dunno....its people accepting the differences of races and cultures and trying to make it less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 13, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, hippo said: Dunno....its people accepting the differences of races and cultures and trying to make it less of an issue. And are you saying that's the same as a bunch of white people singing about "black Tammy"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) I'm not making out the chant is particularly offensive, and I think it's silly it's getting this much attention instead of the talk of us signing this lad. I do think though, that it's a fair assumption that the vast majority of us commenting are straight, white, able bodied men, and we should be the last people talking about what is and isn't hurtful or discriminatory. Edited May 13, 2019 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: And are you saying that's the same as a bunch of white people singing about "black Tammy"? To me it saying we dont care what colour tammy is - we love him because he has scored 25 goals for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I'm not making out the chant is particularly offensive, and I think it's silly it's getting this much attention instead of the talk of its signing this lad. I do think though, that it's a fair assumption that the vast majority of us commenting are straight, white, able bodied men, and we should be the last people talking about what is and isn't hurtful or discriminatory. Yes, and we're all also forgetting that while describing someone as "black" is of course fine, and Tammy is "black" (among many other things!), basing an entire song around it is weird. We've had so many great black players down the years, and there's never been any need to sing about it. Why take the risk of making a player feel unwelcome or uncomfortable because you want to prove a tiresome point about political correctness? It's not about freedom of speech, it's about respect. You're singing about a human being who is very likely to experience racist abuse throughout his career because of his skin colour. And he's one of our own star players! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, hippo said: To me it saying we dont care what colour tammy is - we love him because he has scored 25 goals for us. Usually if you don't care about something you don't mention it. It's like when people say "I DON'T GIVE A F*** WHAT YOU THINK", they actually are the people who care the most what other people think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: It's actually not all that difficult to understand that a person of colour in most cases does not want to be defined by or singled out because the colour of their skin, particularly by middle aged white men. It should be relatively easy for people to compute this and drop it. Yeah, but what if [insert random irrelevant comparisions with other situations here]. Edited May 13, 2019 by Keener window-cleaner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Yes, and we're all also forgetting that while describing someone as "black" is of course fine, and Tammy is "black" (among many other things!), basing an entire song around it is weird. We've had so many great black players down the years, and there's never been any need to sing about it. Why take the risk of making a player feel unwelcome or uncomfortable because you want to prove a tiresome point about political correctness? It's not about freedom of speech, it's about respect. You're singing about a human being who is very likely to experience racist abuse throughout his career because of his skin colour. And he's one of our own star players! Fair point. Is it taboo to mention someones skin colour though ?.... In 15 years time if my grandson says "grandad who was tammy abraham"? Would the reply "Big black bloke who scored 25 goals for us one season" ? Be racist ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 55 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Black Betty was a gun. Honestly the number of people who can't see an issue with calling a black player "Black Tammy" is worrying. The clip is viewed as racist, but when singing it I don't think they realised, nor probably intended any racial intent but it's a very fine line and it does raise eyebrows more so now due to the heightened racial stuff we already witness in and out of football. Social media does not help matters in this day and age neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, hippo said: Fair point. Is it taboo to mention someones skin colour though ?.... In 15 years time if my grandson says "grandad who was tammy abraham"? Would the reply "Big black bloke who scored 25 goals for us one season" ? Be racist ? No because you're just describing him to someone who's never seen him play before. If you're shouting "you're a big black bloke" to his face in a song, then that's slightly different. Anyway, I'm not trying to police what anyone says or thinks, just explaining why I think Stan might have a point here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Funnily enough the chant is now stuck in my head ffs. (I kid you not) The compromise would be, the same chant, minus the "Black" "Oohhhoohoo ho Tammy......... ABRAHAM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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